reply to post by tooo many pills
This bears repeating, so often....because it is mentioned time and again:
I said the sky at the time of the picture was basically clear blue and cloudless, the temperature was 50-60 degrees F, and there was no rain in
the desert. Are these the right conditions for contrails such as these?
Sky "clear" just meant that normal cirrus hadn't formed, nor were there suitable nuclei, or triggering events for natural cirrus to form....the
actions of the airplanes, on the other hand, do cause contrails (when temperature and relative humidity are appropriate). AND, the temperature on the
ground (were you were) has NO BEARING whatsoever! The "rain" comment is also irrelevant....rain comes from different types of clouds, not from
Cumulus mostly, and from clouds at much lower altitudes than cirrus and contrails....above 28,000 feet it is always
freezing....rain comes from clouds that form and dwell lower in the troposphere.
I just found it odd that this particular desert area out in the middle of nowhere with the population of zero and the next gas station is
30-40 miles away had this many crisscrossing contrails. And to add they were incredibly close if not directly over a National Park.
The airplanes making the contrails were passing by, from distant departure points to distant destinations...
Not all flights will make contrails, not always, not everyday, not at every altitude, etc.
..... Area 51. This particular area could have been where most planes divert around the base's restricted airspace....
No, no "diverting" necessary....the National Airspace System and Airway Route Structure already account for the Restricted Areas associated with the
Groom Lake Range, and the other locations nearby. While not directly "overhead", we do skirt the area....on routes from, say....Denver to San
Francisco, NYC to SFO, SMF....etc. AND, flights more Northerly/Southerly too....(pick two cities, you can see on maps the likely routings). I will
give you information links below.
Or, multiple planes could have been spraying chemicals deep in an unpopulated area of the desert high up into the atmosphere for who knows
Nope. LOTS of normal passenger commercial air traffic through there, every day.
Someday, I swear I'll learn how to do a screen-grab for you guys... can't seem to figure it out...
Meanwhile, I have to walk you through it. Go here:
You were driving between LAS and Tahoe? Groom Lake ("Area 51") is just west and lightly north of LAS, so you can start there on the Aeronautical
On "SkyVector", upper left corner...type in KLAS, and click "Go". You will now be looking at the VFR "Terminal Area Chart" (TAC) for LAS (Las
You want to see the Jet Airways, so click the tab labelled "Enroute H-4"
Unfortunately, the way the Charts are laid out, LAS is near the edge....the "flipside" is Chart Enroute H-3...and you can manipulate the screen to see
it. (It's much easier if you can get your hands on paper charts.....they are constantly being replaced, in paperwork revision cycles...so once they
expire, are worthless and therefore FREE!)
The routings flown by jets at high altitude are delineated....but that isn't ALL...because often, traffic and airspace concerns permitting, jets will
be on more "direct" routings too, per request and approval by ATC.
When you look at H-3, over there by the Coaldale VOR, you see the R-4807, R4809, the Tonopah Test Range, etc. ALL associated with "Area 51".
edit on 6 January 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)