Some questions regarding the soul

reply to post by dontreally


Thank you for your excellent post.

Sorry I meant to acknowledge you in the above post but forgot, have edited it now

Originally posted by davespanners
Hi fellow ATS members

This is a subject that came up in chat last night and it has left me with some questions that I would like people to consider and give their opinion on, all the questions are regarding the soul.

Firstly my own opinion is that I am not sure that I even have a soul and that maybe life can be explained purely by biological / electro chemical processes, the existence or not of the soul however is not what I want to ask about.

So to those of you that believe you have a soul I would like to ask these questions.

1) Are you born with a soul? and if you are is it immutable and unchanging throughout your life or does it develop as you experience things, at what stage during conception is the soul born? Is it as soon as an egg is fertilized or later on?

I believe "the soul" is an aspect or facet of the Creator,God,The All,or how ever you wish to describe it.
The "STUFF" of which the soul is derived from, has always existed.

Due to a shattering that had occurred as a result of a realization by "GOD" "WE" all "living energy" now has perspective.
I believe the "soul" has a purpose as a result.
GOD is lonely.

Our goal to me appears to be able to derive the ability to realize beyond the limitations of our "own" perspective.
Explore,Experience,Exist.

2) Do all creatures alive have a soul, or only some of them? Which animals do you believe have them, does a Cat have a soul? How about a Flea? An Amoeba? Plants? Moss?

Being we are all derived from the same source, I would say we experience the "perspective" from different levels of realization.

3) Where do you believe the soul resides?
If I cut off your arms and legs presumably you soul remains unchanged, but what if you are a live brain detached from your body in a jar, does the brain have a soul if it is still functioning?,what about if I cut the brain in half and was able to somehow keep the two parts functioning independently, which part of the brain would the soul remain in? What if I further divided it into quarters / eighths?

Everything resides now, always,and is,within an aspect of "God".

4) If it were possible for a person to be alive without a soul how would we be able to tell him / her from the other people that do have souls? What difference do you feel it would make?

Anything is possible,certain things are probable.
Is it a human ? an entity of some sort ?

I would like to try and keep the debate away from whether or not people believe the soul exists if possible and just try to concentrate on the questions

reply to post by davespanners


Its obviously 'beyond' our ken to truly understand it while conscious in this world and under its laws, because they are are two completely different realities.

The spiritual in its terms is beyond our usual experience of time and space. And so when we talk of it we can only describe its nature in accord with how it manifests in this world - its cause.

This basically is what kabbalah is based on.

When we look at mans spiritual functions- that is, non material and abstract, we discern

Physical vitality - which is the feeling of movement, sensations etc

Emotion - this is the experience of reality. This is the "spiritual" as in the sense of 'to inspire'. This clearly is a different degree of spirituality.

Logic - this is the understanding level of consciousness that discerns and orders matters. Its main function is discriminating one thing from another.

These 3 levels are called in kabbalah - Assiyah (action), Yetzirah (formation) Breyah (creation), their corrolate in microcosm (its apearance in man), are intellect, emotion, and action (physical vitality). These are the soul levels i referred to above as neshama, ruach and Nefesh. Their symbolic association with a particular organ, is the Brain, Heart and Liver.

These 3 levels are all unified while one lives in a body. This means he experiences these 3 different soul levels together. He can see, taste, smell, move, or he can be moved by some visual appearance, and form a logical meaning of it.




The sefirot are basically the 10 building blocks of reality. Its essentially an abstract and archetypal construct but its significance is understood in the patterns we see through out reality - from the purely abstract, in the higher worlds, to a physical manifestation of it in the lower world. All of reality is a composite of these energetic building blocks.

Also, the 22 letters of the alephbet are the currents and modes by which these 10 worlds relate with each other. The 22 letters are aswell completely archetypal. Each letter constitutes some current that binds one sefirah to another. These 10 spheres and 22 conduits are called the "32 paths of wisdom". This is why we call the extra two teeth in the mouth "wisdom teeth".

Ive already gone too esoteric with these ideas, and it really doesnt make sense until people realize that just as this physical world appears to be intelligently designed and exhibiting a ordered structure, likewise, the non visible 'spiritual' or abstract worlds exhibit the same order. This is why the sefirot are the basic archetypal structures of reality. They run from the highest world - atziluth, through the lowest worlds until it crystalizes in this world as laws of nature and its various phenomena. There are direct correspondences throughout and this is essnetialy the esoteric basis for a belief in the soul.

Its true because like all things we regard as true, theres a logical basis to believing.

I would like to postulate some of my opinions of the soul and thoughts I have had regarding it.

The soul and spirit are one in the same. Spirits are merely souls that have been seperated from a body. Simply analogues of one another as words. I believe that the soul, just as it is dictated, is separate from the body. The soul is merely tethered to the body.

Animals have souls as well, but you cannot seperate their feelings so to speak. One dog may like cheese, while another does not. This is their personality I believe. Not as advanced as ours, but still.

I just lost my train of thought, I may post more later.

reply to post by Xen0m0rpH


Please do post more when you can!

The others have answered with what is known from various religious, philosophical, or scientific perspectives. I have spent the entirety of my life examining these very things and thus, I have read those and even more than those noted here. None of them really ever sat right with me, leading me to my assumption that I was simply a bit dim. lol

Then a few years ago, I discovered meditation. In other posts over the years, I have stated some of the journeys I have undertaken under a number of "altered consciousnesses".

I will not answer your questions as I am going to attempt to explain this from a "greater distance". Having said that, what ever way you feel comfortable believing in anything at all is correct! There are no wrong answers.

Firstly, there is a Source for all that is. That Source is all there is and things being what they are sometimes things come into being and so at some point we ended up doing this here. So, what it means is that we are an energetic experience of that Source. What we experience as humans on this planet is the energetic expression of the Source. Our soul is an 'energetic variance' that interacts with other variances but is not separate or independent or isolated in any way. You have no choice but to be part of all that is. Your personal experience seems to be what it is because that soul variance goes through a fair bit of pressure to have these experiences. That is why we seem to be as dense and gelatinous and what-have-you. That is why the sensory organs we use are somewhat limited. We have no clue about the vast majority of what really is because of the extraordinary conditions of our presence here.

When you look at it from this perspective, you can see how it relates to all the religious doctrines that state how precious life is and how suicide is wrong and how God created Man and how all the other things that they claim are interpretations owing to our limited capacity to grasp something so wholly beyond our ken.

We are reincarnated, obviously, because that is how you gain experience and understanding. However, this can be seen as one life because you come back with a different set of lessons to learn and you do not generally retain memories of past lives, but will do if it is part of the path you're on.

Our souls are free to change as much as possible, as well as possible and yes, we do have free will. But there is a lot that is predetermined, and it is only with the effort of a great many of us making this single choice to change such things. We know that this doesn't happen much, right? lol

I mentioned meditation up there. This is an excellent way to open up to feel those energies better. Deeply religious people (those who are not simply attempting to lord over others by slamming them with doctrinal "truths) experience much the same interactions with these energies as those who meditate. And that is also why those who meditate a great deal can be perceived as "psychotic", etc., because those who don't cannot comprehend just how amazing this existence is, even when (and particularly when) it feels really bad here.

Because the point of life is to experience, you also have to be all things throughout the numerous lifetimes. You have to be the crook and the copper. You have to be the devil and the saint. You have to be the murderer and the victim. When you cannot comprehend someone's actions, you find them wholly repugnant, you have not gone that route yet. You have no soul experience there. Your degree of compassion and understanding in any lifetime is a good indicator of how much experience you have gained over time. No, you don't remember specifically those lifetimes, but your soul does.

This is not to say that even some of the very first souls to experience this specific existence do not get really fed up with those less experienced. It's much the same as young person sees an old man or woman who is very crotchety and seems intolerant. Sometimes you just get very tired of it all.

In summary, nothing is as it seems to be. You are a soul, you have what you perceive to be a body that is based on the energies of your soul. You enter this existence, sort of like sticking your finger in some pudding. Can't get much but a squishy feeling there, right? You exist having tried to surmise what flavor it was, etc. And our Higher Self sits out there laughing at this whole thing but trying really hard to do the best we can. So laugh along with yourself. Help others out whenever you can *but not when it is not specifically requested*. We are all entitled to our own mistakes and lessons and experiences broadly. We all have to have them. No one person knows what the life of another is meant to be.

The others have answered with what is known from various religious, philosophical, or scientific perspectives. I have spent the entirety of my life examining these very things and thus, I have read those and even more than those noted here. None of them really ever sat right with me, leading me to my assumption that I was simply a bit dim. lol

Then a few years ago, I discovered meditation. In other posts over the years, I have stated some of the journeys I have undertaken under a number of "altered consciousnesses".

I will not answer your questions as I am going to attempt to explain this from a "greater distance". Having said that, what ever way you feel comfortable believing in anything at all is correct! There are no wrong answers.

Firstly, there is a Source for all that is. That Source is all there is and things being what they are sometimes things come into being and so at some point we ended up doing this here. So, what it means is that we are an energetic experience of that Source. What we experience as humans on this planet is the energetic expression of the Source. Our soul is an 'energetic variance' that interacts with other variances but is not separate or independent or isolated in any way. You have no choice but to be part of all that is. Your personal experience seems to be what it is because that soul variance goes through a fair bit of pressure to have these experiences. That is why we seem to be as dense and gelatinous and what-have-you. That is why the sensory organs we use are somewhat limited. We have no clue about the vast majority of what really is because of the extraordinary conditions of our presence here.

When you look at it from this perspective, you can see how it relates to all the religious doctrines that state how precious life is and how suicide is wrong and how God created Man and how all the other things that they claim are interpretations owing to our limited capacity to grasp something so wholly beyond our ken.

We are reincarnated, obviously, because that is how you gain experience and understanding. However, this can be seen as one life because you come back with a different set of lessons to learn and you do not generally retain memories of past lives, but will do if it is part of the path you're on.

Our souls are free to change as much as possible, as well as possible and yes, we do have free will. But there is a lot that is predetermined, and it is only with the effort of a great many of us making this single choice to change such things. We know that this doesn't happen much, right? lol

I mentioned meditation up there. This is an excellent way to open up to feel those energies better. Deeply religious people (those who are not simply attempting to lord over others by slamming them with doctrinal "truths) experience much the same interactions with these energies as those who meditate. And that is also why those who meditate a great deal can be perceived as "psychotic", etc., because those who don't cannot comprehend just how amazing this existence is, even when (and particularly when) it feels really bad here.

Because the point of life is to experience, you also have to be all things throughout the numerous lifetimes. You have to be the crook and the copper. You have to be the devil and the saint. You have to be the murderer and the victim. When you cannot comprehend someone's actions, you find them wholly repugnant, you have not gone that route yet. You have no soul experience there. Your degree of compassion and understanding in any lifetime is a good indicator of how much experience you have gained over time. No, you don't remember specifically those lifetimes, but your soul does.

This is not to say that even some of the very first souls to experience this specific existence do not get really fed up with those less experienced. It's much the same as young person sees an old man or woman who is very crotchety and seems intolerant. Sometimes you just get very tired of it all.

In summary, nothing is as it seems to be. You are a soul, you have what you perceive to be a body that is based on the energies of your soul. You enter this existence, sort of like sticking your finger in some pudding. Can't get much but a squishy feeling there, right? You exist having tried to surmise what flavor it was, etc. And our Higher Self sits out there laughing at this whole thing but trying really hard to do the best we can. So laugh along with yourself. Help others out whenever you can *but not when it is not specifically requested*. We are all entitled to our own mistakes and lessons and experiences broadly. We all have to have them. No one person knows what the life of another is meant to be.

The soul is that part which makes you equal to God. Just something to make your mind expand. Interesting?

The soul overcomes any spiritual realm. It is to find yourself in no spiritual realm to become spiritual

Originally posted by Metallicafan
The soul is who you really are. The body is just a body. When you die, you still live on because of the soul. That is what life is about? Aliens have souls and since they're so advanced, they know what to do in physical life.

No, The soul is NOT who we really are. It is the transitory persona that the immortal Spiritual Individuality takes on during successive incarnations. What we really are is this Higher Self, this "spark of the Divine Flame". We have seven principles and the soul is but the highest of the lowest four principles that define different aspects of the temporary Personality.

1) You don't have a soul, you are a soul. True nature is unchanging but the perpetual/composite life changes and evolves.

2) every being is part of the All-soul, their descent depends on ignorance of the first principle and as a result do not have the wisdom to remain as a perfect soul. The reason for this is because if you descend from perfection you become a composite of things and your unity is destroyed. Cat is soul in cat form, flea is soul in flea form, all part of the all-soul the way the animals are part of the universe.

3) soul is immaterial it transcends matter the way the universe transcends individual galaxies and it is also imminent within all matter the way quarks exist within atoms. it is impossible to divide the soul into parts.

4) if a person is soulless, you tell by his lack of enthusiasm with life.

Originally posted by filosophia

1) You don't have a soul, you are a soul. True nature is unchanging but the perpetual/composite life changes and evolves.

>One with the breath of life is a living soul.

2) every being is part of the All-soul, their descent depends on ignorance of the first principle and as a result do not have the wisdom to remain as a perfect soul. The reason for this is because if you descend from perfection you become a composite of things and your unity is destroyed. Cat is soul in cat form, flea is soul in flea form, all part of the all-soul the way the animals are part of the universe.

>Little children are of the spirit. Becometh like little children again, then you'll become of the spirit again.

3) soul is immaterial it transcends matter the way the universe transcends individual galaxies and it is also imminent within all matter the way quarks exist within atoms. it is impossible to divide the soul into parts.

>It seems to be more a unity; body and soul. The soul is who you are merged with your body.

4) if a person is soulless, you tell by his lack of enthusiasm with life.

>would it be right to change soulless into Godless.

edit on 6-1-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by davespanners
Hi fellow ATS members

This is a subject that came up in chat last night and it has left me with some questions that I would like people to consider and give their opinion on, all the questions are regarding the soul.

Firstly my own opinion is that I am not sure that I even have a soul and that maybe life can be explained purely by biological / electro chemical processes, the existence or not of the soul however is not what I want to ask about.

So to those of you that believe you have a soul I would like to ask these questions.

I don't have a soul.
I am a soul which has a body.
Or, looking deeper, I am a spirit which has a soul which has a body.
Looking still deeper, I am god, manifesting as spirit, through a soul, which mostly lives through a body.

1) Are you born with a soul? and if you are is it immutable and unchanging throughout your life or does it develop as you experience things, at what stage during conception is the soul born? Is it as soon as an egg is fertilized or later on?

During my second pregnancy, I don't know exactly when, but I was beginning to show, I was alone one evening and the spirit of my son came and introduced himself to me. I couldn't see him, but I was as aware of him as you would be of the person sitting next to you. He conveyed to me that he was going to be my son, and was just then becoming attached to his new body.

From that it seems likely to me the soul enters the fetus after a certain stage of developement.

2) Do all creatures alive have a soul, or only some of them? Which animals do you believe have them, does a Cat have a soul? How about a Flea? An Amoeba? Plants? Moss?

The spirit is in everything, but the soul is the result of awareness. I don't know if fleas are aware, but cats certainly are.

3) Where do you believe the soul resides?
If I cut off your arms and legs presumably you soul remains unchanged, but what if you are a live brain detached from your body in a jar, does the brain have a soul if it is still functioning?,what about if I cut the brain in half and was able to somehow keep the two parts functioning independently, which part of the brain would the soul remain in? What if I further divided it into quarters / eighths?

The soul is not part of the body, nor does it reside within it. The soul is like a cloud which surrounds the body, but is not made of anything material. During astral travel or NDEs the soul can leave the body. Souls can link to each other from a distance, making a form of telepathy possible.

4) If it were possible for a person to be alive without a soul how would we be able to tell him / her from the other people that do have souls? What difference do you feel it would make?

A person's awareness is in the soul. It can be absent, but still connected, when a person is unconscious or in a coma, however you cannot be conscious in your body and have your soul elsewhere.

reply to post by Kailassa

Your experience during pregnancy sounds fascinating!
Thank you that.

Originally posted by davespanners

3) Where do you believe the soul resides?
If I cut off your arms and legs presumably you soul remains unchanged, but what if you are a live brain detached from your body in a jar, does the brain have a soul if it is still functioning?,what about if I cut the brain in half and was able to somehow keep the two parts functioning independently, which part of the brain would the soul remain in? What if I further divided it into quarters / eighths?

Damn, I really like this question. Good job.

I wish I had come into this discussion earlier. I would have liked to say it first but there are a couple here that have the right idea.

You cannot HAVE a soul because you ARE a soul that has a body. It really need not be more complicated than that for practical purposes.

It seems most all belief systems are intended to keep you from that realization. It is important to accept the proper relationship, i.e., that you HAVE a body rather than being a body so that you can exert more control over yourself and your surroundings.

It really does not suit you to be an unaware soul, that is not to say you cannot be functional but that you cannot advance past your present realization.

Animals also are comprised of soul but are unaware.

What I have said may be completely wrong, but from a working standpoint accepting that YOU are an entity apart (but integral with) your body will give you more control over your integral self and more able to exert control over your environment.

Self-awareness is a powerful tool. If there is indeed an advanced science to it that others suggest then it is immaterial until after taking the first step in realizing the proper relationship.

Where are you located in the body? Not sure, I feel like I am in my head. Wasn't there something said about 23 grams? That suggests soul has a material composition however ethereal.