Israel said it would keep Gaza near collapse: WikiLeaks

reply to post by Eliad


Hey Eliad. How's about you comment on the actual videos, rather than make some joke about the Palestinians not having chocolate while ignoring the fact that, for starters, what can terrorists do with chocolate and why did they ban that in the first place? To intentionally be arses thats why.

I'm genuinely interested to here your point of view on the videos, considering you are closer to this than most of us.

What do you think about the Israeli soldiers shooting the farmers picking parsley? Where do you stand on this? This seems to be commonplace and i seriously doubt there's any repercusions at all for the soldiers. It seems they use these people just for target practice.

I see a lot of ignorance here. *shakes head*

It's really quite simple once you understand G_d's plan and what is coming for the people of Israel and for everyone else, too. If people just opened their eyes and followed the Word it would be very simple. Eretz Israel is destiny, you can't fight it, you can't stand against it or you will reap the whirlwind. The Palestinians are getting what G_d has ordained will happen to the enemies of Israel and the Chosen. What clearer proof do you need?

Get on the right side, get right with G_d and remember how your attudes to this issue will effect your own salvation!

Originally posted by ZionSteel
I see a lot of ignorance here. *shakes head*

The Palestinians are getting what G_d has ordained will happen to the enemies of Israel and the Chosen.

So God said murder was bad, but you say its ok for Israelis to murder Palestinians. I think you are confused with your own religion. Is it not a sin to murder? Is it not Gods place to judge and not your's or there's?

What clearer proof do you need?

Well, some proof would be a start at least.........

Get on the right side, get right with G_d and remember how your attudes to this issue will effect your own salvation!

Well, God said don't murder and i'm against murder, so i'm on the right side of God thanks. You are advocating murder so actually you are against God.

Strange how you use your religion to justify murder. Kind of sounds the same as the extremists on the other side don't you think?

Originally posted by ZionSteel
I see a lot of ignorance here. *shakes head*

It's really quite simple once you understand G_d's plan and what is coming for the people of Israel and for everyone else, too. If people just opened their eyes and followed the Word it would be very simple. Eretz Israel is destiny, you can't fight it, you can't stand against it or you will reap the whirlwind. The Palestinians are getting what G_d has ordained will happen to the enemies of Israel and the Chosen. What clearer proof do you need?

Get on the right side, get right with G_d and remember how your attudes to this issue will effect your own salvation!

If Israel are acting on Gods wishes then give me Hell anyday...

Satan himself couldn't be as cruel...

I didn't find any link to the actual documents so I am posting them.
3.11.2008: CASHLESS IN GAZA

26.7.2007: APHSCT TOWNSEND RECEIVES ACTION PLAN ON PALESTINIANS FROM ISRAELI NSC

4.12.2008: GOI CALLS GAZA CASH CRISIS A HAMAS PLOY

Originally posted by ZionSteel
I see a lot of ignorance here. *shakes head*

It's really quite simple once you understand G_d's plan and what is coming for the people of Israel and for everyone else, too. If people just opened their eyes and followed the Word it would be very simple. Eretz Israel is destiny, you can't fight it, you can't stand against it or you will reap the whirlwind. The Palestinians are getting what G_d has ordained will happen to the enemies of Israel and the Chosen. What clearer proof do you need?

Get on the right side, get right with G_d and remember how your attudes to this issue will effect your own salvation!

Wow! Change "Palestinians" for the word "infidels", change "Israel" for "Islam" and Homeland security would be all over this guy/girl and make this a HUGE news story about some Muslim extremist being arrested in a big world wide operation that was just fantastic for national security...

On topic now... If it's your opinion that fairy god's plan is for people to suffer then it doesn't love everyone as it says in a fiction book it inspired called "the bible"... You should read it sometime.

Extremists of any kind suck.

Magnum

reply to post by Nammu

Hey Eliad. How's about you comment on the actual videos, rather than make some joke about the Palestinians not having chocolate while ignoring the fact that, for starters, what can terrorists do with chocolate and why did they ban that in the first place?

Oh #, sorry, I wasn't trying to be dismissive or anything, I was being candid, when I wrote 'chocolate and whatever' I meant chocolate and what ever else, by that I meant the so called 'luxuries' that were banned for no reason like jam, chocolate, and whatnot.

Understand that English is not my native tongue, and sometimes things might get a bit lost in translation.

reply to post by ZionSteel


I take it you are one of those ZioChristians. You do realise your "religion", a hodgepodge of evangelism, End Times theophosy and national supremacism that has been infiltrated by the security services and agents of foriegn interest inorder to reformat the belief system of American Christians?

You will find that religion in the US has also been corporatised because it was felt that Jesus Christ's message was a tad too socialist? All this about loving your neighbour and the community being the body of Christ is an anathema for the Talmudist and the capitalist.

I mean look at you, you are using the Bible to justify murder ----> the desecration of the sanctity of all life with starvation regimes, torture, organ theft and slander etc. You might actually be practising Satanism but you don't even know it.

Originally posted by Eliad


Oh #, sorry, I wasn't trying to be dismissive or anything, I was being candid, when I wrote 'chocolate and whatever' I meant chocolate and what ever else, by that I meant the so called 'luxuries' that were banned for no reason like jam, chocolate, and whatnot.

Understand that English is not my native tongue, and sometimes things might get a bit lost in translation.

you knew damn well that particular cable wasnt about luxury items

you were called on your comment and now you want to play dumb, you really are a piece of work!

reply to post by Ellen15


As slippery as a slug in a jar of KYJelly.

And the second line is for what ever you want.

reply to post by backinblack

Ohh sorry..So how did Israel keep them near collapse then??
You tell us...

That's a good question, I don't know what they did, but I'm sure it wasn't good. And I'm not even sure they *didn't* hold back supplies.

It could be anything from enforcing the sea blockade, banning certain goods (a thing which complicated the shipments of goods into Gaza), not allowing Gaza citizens to get permission to leave Gaza, etc... Could be a lot of things.

But that cable says nothing about stopping goods, you're just making assumptions and parading them around like fact.

I don't think the school kids in Gaza heard any alarms before the phosphorus fell on them...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they didn't, because they were all evacuated. The IDF only fired phosphorus into areas where it notified the civilians that it's going to be acting in, but sadly not everyone can just get up and leave.

By the way, school kids, really? What is this, a melodrama?
"Oh, I don't think the wittow kittens in Gaza undewstood the flyers you dropped before you MURDERED THEM ALL"... Come on, make your points based on reason, not emotion.. You think Israeli children don't get hurt?

The problem is this discussion is ruled by emotion, and not reason.

reply to post by Ellen15


My god.. Read the whole comment, does it look like I was trying to dismiss the whole issue?

A cruel and unnecessary move by the Israeli government, which in the end worked against them

Oh yes, the subtle hints of sarcasm are just so easy to miss, lucky you're here.

^ See, that's sarcasm.

reply to post by Eliad


Cool fair do's. Star from me for your honest reply. You are one of the few Israeli's on here that does speak out against Israeli wrongdoing when you see it.

reply to post by Nammu


As for the videos-

First two videos
With the first two videos I think the question is not why they're shooting, but rather who's shooting, and where are they shooting.

The why part is clear to everyone there- People hanging out this close to the fence is dangerous, a terrorist could easily (and don't think that it hasn't been done in the past, in fact it's one of their main MOs) sneak in with those guys (even without their knowing) and fire at Israeli patrols, or get close enough to plant an explosive. This is a risk.

The protesters know this, the farmers know this, this whole thing is a planned out act of protest anyway, and it happens all the time, this isn't just a random occurrence.
The rest is for you- The 'taking cover', the "Someone's injured!" with the camera man just standing in a convenient distance, the suspicious lack of an ambulance or filming of the injured person, the repeated "Why are you shooting at us" when clearly the soldiers are too far away to respond, etc etc.

It's all for you.

Now for reality, and if this has gone too long for you just skip for the next video analysis-

Where were they shooting- Well it certainly wasn't at those farmers, or else they'd all be dead, and there'd be much more than that one gun, and the firing would have been more rapid.
Why are the protesters standing? Why aren't the farmers getting the hell out of there? Does this genuinely seem like the behavior of people under fire?
It could have been warning shots, which are usually fired into the air, or at an open field at a far enough angle as to not hurt anyone, from the sound of it it sounds like they're shooting, and hitting, a certain object, which means they're not shooting at the people, also at the last bit you can hear the echoing of the shots, which, anyone that has ever been to a shooting range knows, is an indication of shots hitting something very far away from you. Sounds like they're shooting metal, but I'm no expert.

Who did the shooting- At one point the camera man points the camera at the Jeeps, and nobody is outside, so who's doing the shooting? Could it be the guys in the Jeeps? Yeah, but they wouldn't be doing it from inside the Jeeps.. I really can't tell, I can make a million assumptions, but that would be kind of stupid as it does seem like the shots are in their vicinity, but this is really lacking a lot of information.

Anyway, this is really all there is to it, it's pallywood at its best- At worst these were warning shots to an object nearby, at best it was a shooting range somewhere around there, maybe that guard tower is an indication of a nearby camp.

Anyway I'll be back with part two, have to go for a while.

Originally posted by Eliad

My god.. Read the whole comment, does it look like I was trying to dismiss the whole issue?

A cruel and unnecessary move by the Israeli government, which in the end worked against them

Oh yes, the subtle hints of sarcasm are just so easy to miss, lucky you're here.

^ See, that's sarcasm.

This is what you said

A cruel and unnecessary move by the Israeli government, which in the end worked against them- Instead of making the people of Gaza realize they had made the wrong choice (I don't know what leap of logic lead anyone to think that would happen) it actually made people cling to Hamas more, and hate Israel more. Just stupid.

I feel bad for the people of Gaza who have had to suffer those bans on chocolates and whatever..

They voted, the people spoke, democracy is beautiful like that, they voted for Hamas!

The West and Israel were NOT happy and what did they do?

It wasnt just CHOCOLATE they banned!

Yes you downplayed it, by saying "chocolate" and you know it!

and THAT says alot about YOU!

Originally posted by Nammu
Cool fair do's. Star from me for your honest reply. You are one of the few Israeli's on here that does speak out against Israeli wrongdoing when you see it.

Nonesense!

He spoke out about chocolate ban, that was it!

Then got called on it!

reply to post by Eliad


I too share Nammu's opinion about you Eliad.You are one of the very few people I can actually have a debate with on this subject without feeling like I'm talking to a brainwashed robot...

Now as for your post on the videos.

The activists are standing because they know that the IDF won't shoot them. They know that if the IDF will shot them it will mean problems for them, and the IDF knows that too. In the first video, you can clearly see that the guy right next to the front tire of the pick up truck drops like a rock; he was shot dead.

Also these people are in an open field being shot at by snipers. the only place they can hide is down, they can't run. Running will make them a bigger target. Plus, they are being shot at even when they have their hands up in surrender, or are hiding. You can hear the ricochets of the bullets in the video where they hide behind a house.

I don't see how they can be a threat to anyone when you can clearly watch these people with binoculars and see that they are only collecting wheat... If you can aim and shoot with your firearm's scope, then you can see your target and what they are doing... Well, that's the spotter's job.

These people were peaceful. There was no need to shoot at them, or prevent them from farming their wheat.

What did you think of the last video, the one with the guy who calls that "christian-jewish" fundraiser thing?

Magnum

Wild. I still don't get it tho.. U.S REALLY paid Israel to leave Gaza? When???

Ideally, what I want to know is, WHAT DOES THE WORLD AND U.S want from Israel.. in the long run?.

If they want them to turn Gaza into Palestine, why doesn't U.S just tell them so and prevent any further financial transactions until that's done?


probem solved??

reply to post by Ellen15


My friend, if my little profile side bar didn't say Location: Israel not only would you not have bothered with this, but you'd most probably have starred my comment and moved on by now.

And that says a great deal about you.

Nemmu and Magnum are reacting this way because they've read my past replies and know how I feel about the blockade, we might not agree with each other all the time, but we're always respectful to one another, regardless of the matter at hand.

Maybe you should take our cue.

reply to post by Magnum007


Examine the video again- One guy is pushed down, and the other drops down instead of running (which is just smarter) and then crawls to the right, if I'd say anyone was injured I'd say it's the guy that dropped, but you can clearly see him laying on the ground when they're lifting the wounded guy away..

And then the second shot, and no one even budges... They all get up as if nothing happened, even though they're still "under fire", and five minutes later they're all back to normal as if nothing happened, but they're still 'under fire'.. Seems unreasonable..

It just looks too much like they were waiting for a cue.. Like they're putting on a show.
What I really don't get is how there's no recording of the injured person. Notice how the intro text doesn't even say anyone was killed that day, it talks about a different incident where someone was killed.

It's all very confusing and I feel it's all a bit misleading and dishonest, the whole repeated "Why are you shooting" is an act of protest, not a real question, they know very well what the IDF's terms on engagement are..

The ricochet sounds have an echo to them, meaning they're coming from far away, a close ricochet will never have an echo, it's not possible, also it sounds like bullets hitting a metal target, not a wall.

It's just full of holes, and I suspect they weren't made by Israeli snipers.