Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

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posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 


Yea, that's exactly how I thought it would go.
have fun at church.
edit on 13-12-2012 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus is prejudice against sweet tea. The south will rise again.




posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


Considering the source I'm not offended. You never showed any proof of credibility to your "Gods" that make up your "GAOTU" , who are separate from the God of the bible. You slander to make up for your ignorance, and argue a unprovable point to justify yourself. The other masons who admit they have no connection to the Holy spirit or churches, I can understand how they are decieved, but you should know better. You are brothers with those "haphazard genetic bends with uncertain ends", as well as those who HATE your God you profess to believe in. I think time will tell where wisdom lies. Peace-Me



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 


Do masons really worship or regard Baspomet? (the goat looking man?) I believe what you say about the degrees easing a member into an evil lifestyle, but do they do this? If so at what degree does one find this out? Or find out they have been worshipping Satan, or Lucifer, or whoever.Thanks.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

Baspomet? No, we don't worship anything named "Baspomet".

Although I'm sure you're thinking of Baphomet, but regardless we don't worship Baphomet either.
edit on 13-12-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 
Anyone can say they are a Freemason, but there is only one way to prove it to another Freemason...and you have failed to do so.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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One thing I have learned over the years is that there is absolutely nothing in this world as powerful as the desire to believe. When we want to believe something so badly, we go to a place beyond the call of reason or logic. That is what has happened to "almadd2012." And to be fair, its not something that just impacts ex-masons or Evangelical Christians like him - it can happen to anyone. That is why it is always best to step back and evaluate ones beliefs and ask "do I believe this because I want to or because that is what the evidence supports?" I have no problem believing almadd2012 is an ex-mason - his arguments are commonplace and depressingly similar to those made by many ex-masons who believe they have "found Jesus" and left the fraternity. Brethren, you must understand that evangelical Christianity is a powerful force in causing people to "want to believe."

I used to be a Evangelical Christian, and I have been a mason for 5 years. I would now consider myself a deist, not because of masonry but because of my own study of philosophy and religion. But like most who would find something amiss in masonry, while people like almadd2012 think there is something unchristian about masonry the reality is its perfectly compatible with all forms of Christianity - including evangelicalism.

As real masons know, freemasonry does not require one believe in ecumenical dogma that "all paths lead to God". It DOES require that one tolerate those of any faith. If the Evangelical believes that those of other religions are in sin, then he should rejoice as a mason - for Jesus Christ himself made it a point to fellowship to those in sin:

Matt 9:10-12
9:10 And as he sat at dinner in the house, many tax collectors and sinners came and were sitting with him and his disciples. 9:11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?" 9:12 But when he heard this, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

Did Christ shout down these sinners and tell them that they were all going to hell? No. He simply broke bread with them and had fellowship. He tolerated them because as the bible says, ALL sinners are equal before God, and EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS ARE SINNERS just like everyone else. The true evangelical who bases his actions on the word of God and not on pompous dogma will rejoice that he is a mason, for here he can be among men of all faiths like his Savior. What better place to show Christ's tolerance?



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by thelongjourney
 


Yes, but Jesus also said when he was sending out the twelve "do not even go into pagan territory"'. I understand the idea of giving compassion and love to all humans, but as a bible believing Christian I cannot kneel in a "temple" you consider your "center" and give "brotherhood" to them. IMHO, it's a great deception. I showed earlier where Ptah is the creator God of the Egyptians, and masonry has egyptian symbolism all over it. God clearly stated his disdain for the false Gods of Egypt. The whole world is evil. You are all evil.I am evil. But thank God he came down and sacrificed himself and made a way that if I regret the evil in me, and believe in Jesus, the evil vanishes, and we become one.

Satan is a master deciever. As God uses him to test the human race, he purifys his people and test them. The simple have no idea. As in Job, he lets Satan try everyones faith, not just Job, to set the levels of heaven. Because God performed signs and wonders to his people, Satan is also allowed to supernaturally appear to humans, to test them. No one but God and Satan know why or what or what the rules are, we are only given clues in the bible. Someine earlier said "memento mori" and no one comes back from the grave to prove thier point, but like Lazarus was told when he begged to go back to the world to warn his brothers, "They have the prophets". And from his law and the prophets and Paul, I know that I see things in this world that are simple on the outside, but satanic in reaction and impact. Hollywood for one. Rock-n-roll for another. but then you get down to the reallllly deceptive stuff. 2 major ones to me. How evil of satan, to use God's own mother to take the focus off of Jesus. Statues in catholic churches and pilgrimages all over the world to her. Muhammed was supposedly illeterate, and in a cave met "Gabriel", who set him in hate against Christians and Jews. You cannot tell me absolutely waht was in the cave with him. You also cannot tell me that it is actually Mary in all of those apparitions. but I can know that God gave me the bible, his word, and it is the measure I use. And masonry especially does not measure up. Like Almadd said, go to your lodges, ignore the bible and play your games. We will find out at Judgement whater you are a sheep on the right or a goat on the left. Peace



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:21 AM
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The problem with that is that the masonic lodge isn't pagan territory. And if your going to "want to believe" that it is, then you also can't enter/be around the following:

- Anywhere that the Boy Scout's meet
- Congress
- Any university with a fraternity or sorority
- AAA (yep, the automobile members association)

Since all the above, like freemasonry, are organizations with a membership that has people of different faiths. Yet...somehow...I don't see people screaming about how their local Triple Sigma chapter is the den of satan. Interesting how that works.

Indeed, Satan is a master deceiver. And he has deceived evangelicals that they have the power to sit in judgement and the divine authority to decide that - unlike Jesus, who they claim is their Savior - they are to good to fellowship with others who believe differently.

Perhaps your God cannot handle you being around other faiths. Perhaps your God has no tolerance, and thinks that his followers are above other sinners and those who believe differently. That is your God. Your are, of course, entitled to worship Him. But that God is NOT the God of the Bible or Christianity - for that God had such tolerance, such mercy and patience, that he sent his only Son to break bread with...GASP...people who were different than Him.
edit on 14-12-2012 by thelongjourney because: (no reason given)
edit on 14-12-2012 by thelongjourney because: (no reason given)
edit on 14-12-2012 by thelongjourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by thelongjourney
 


Twist scripture all you want. What if all "fraternities" outside of the catholic chvurch (small c) are evil? It means we make mistakes and are evil. We are good at that, and have been since eden. so what. What matters is wether you are a sheep, or a goat......



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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I know a lot of catholics and anti-catholics who are freemasons. Yet, in the lodge they put their worldly differences aside and meet on the level as brothers. Isn't that wonderful?



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


So you've had bad personal experiences with masons and have found relief in Jesus. Does that sum up your overall message?
edit on 14-12-2012 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


I am having a very hard time trying to figure out why you keep posting. Obviously, you are free to do so, but you don't seem able to budge from your stance that only followers of Jesus Christ should commune with Christians. We as masons tried to explain why we feel happy to be in the company of men of other faiths, and you will not stand for that. Super. Now what is left to discuss?



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 


If salvation were only possible through Jesus where does that leave Billions of Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, etc. who have never heard of Jesus? Where does that leave Jews, who dont recognize Jesus either? What if Jesus is one of several means of Salvation? That does not equal saying "all Religions are equally good". It merely recognizes that there is more than one ladder up.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 


What if Jesus saying that "Salvation is only possible through me" was a statement made in the geographical and political context of his time and country, surrounded by a bunch of unenlightened retards and was never meant to imply there are no other paths upwards whatsoever?

Or what if those words were not meant to be descriptive of an overall reality but rather meant to help the believer dedicate himself more fully to Jesus?

Or what if those words were never spoken by him in that way? Or misinterpreted?

The entire anger of the religious zealot hinges upon one path being "the only path". That kind of thinking causing so much anger, maybe its time that kind of thinking is dropped and replaced with something a little more considerate of the big picture.
edit on 14-12-2012 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

I'm returning to this response. To claim that since he was recorded in books, that makes him real, then the same logic applies to the others. They were recorded as well. Your logic is very faulty.

I'm Christian, but I'm not blind.


You and Aliester Crowley seem to have a affection for Horus.

Since I was a child I have always been interested in Egyptian mythology (as well as most ancient religious beliefs), but I study them from the point of research not as a follower of the religion. I'm sure if we gave into the militants, all other religions would be banned and their writings burned.

reply to post by mikeangel
 

With that logic, his disciples broke his command, but regardless the Lodge wouldn't be considered pagan territory.

You should know we use the term "temple" as our legends surround the building of King Solomon's Temple. We don't consider our buildings to be actual temples. You don't consider yourself a part of the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God?

A few Lodges have decorated a few rooms with Egyptian symbols, but that was the fad of the day. But these decorations are superficial and don't play a main part in the actual ritual of Freemasonry.


The whole world is evil.

That is such a terrible outlook to have on life. Hate begets hate.

The Bible also warns us against false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing. So please, quit spitting your venom into our ears and telling us its honey.


The simple have no idea.

I thought we'd see a statement like this eventually. You think yourself more superior to others. What a bunch of self-righteous poppy cock.


No one but God and Satan know why or what or what the rules are, we are only given clues in the bible.

So then maybe you're the deceived one, not me.


Someine earlier said "memento mori" and no one comes back from the grave to prove thier point, but like Lazarus was told when he begged to go back to the world to warn his brothers, "They have the prophets".

I said that earlier, yes. Memento Mori is not about resurrection. It translates to: "Remember your mortality", "Remember you must die" or "Remember you will die". Everyone dies, it is the common doom of man. Death is the great equalizer.


Rock-n-roll for another.

Not all rock music is bad.


Like Almadd said, go to your lodges, ignore the bible and play your games.

By going to Lodge I am not ignoring the Bible. Again, that is bad logic and inaccurate information.

Game night isn't until January.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
Everyone dies, it is the common doom of man.


I know four out of five dentists say this but I have the other one.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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To all the bible believing masons out there, still, the question remains, show me anything said by any of the other "Gods" that make up your "Gaotu", or prophets"inspired" to record anything in thier "scriptures" ,ANYTHING major that came to pass. Show any evidence in history where they performed miracles. Changed the world. OTHERWISE, your just making baseless noise and myth farts. I asked that a long time ago. Peace and Love-Me
edit on 14-12-2012 by mikeangel because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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"Death is the great equalizer."





Not for me. Maybe for you. To me death is freedom , real freedom.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
"Death is the great equalizer."





Not for me. Maybe for you. To me death is freedom , real freedom.



And yet if you really believed that, why not go put yourself into a dangerous situation to ensure it comes quickly? It wouldn't technically be suicide.

You know, I've read your replies today and I don't get you. You don't actually present any argument for your points - people make a series of point and you simply waive your hands by replying with some nonsensical response. Why do you continue to post? I mean, you are of course free to continue spamming the thread, but if anything you just make your cause look terrible. You are the perfect argument against your own brand of Christianity.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
To all the bible believing masons out there, still, the question remains, show me anything said by any of the other "Gods" that make up your "Gaotu", or prophets"inspired" to record anything in thier "scriptures" ,ANYTHING major that came to pass. Show any evidence in history where they performed miracles. Changed the world. OTHERWISE, your just making baseless noise and myth farts. I asked that a long time ago. Peace and Love-Me
edit on 14-12-2012 by mikeangel because: (no reason given)


Here, some men who worshiped the GAOTU wrote this book. My God is the GAOTU and he is the one they are talking about in that book. Now please, go to church and pray for our souls. Augustus really needs it. Thanks.





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