Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

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posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by almadd2012
Anyone with a black book (er, that's the color here, anyway), can answer silly questions to "prove" they're a mason, so to test me is useless. I'd prefer you simply accept that I'm being truthful.


Yet you did not answer it.

Here is one not in any book:

Where is the sun in regards Masonry?




posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by almadd2012
Anyone with a black book (er, that's the color here, anyway), can answer silly questions to "prove" they're a mason, so to test me is useless. I'd prefer you simply accept that I'm being truthful.


Yet you did not answer it.

Here is one not in any book:

Where is the sun in regards Masonry?


Oh, I dunno, how about at its fecking meridian, Worshipful Blowhard? Now you say "Wait a cotton pickin' minute! Lodges are held in the evening around these parts, y'hear, so how can the sun be at its meridian?" And I'll follow with something along the lines of "Well, my sweet, you see that big ol' blob of flaming gases in the center of the bloody solar system? Well, take that, and the fact that the earth just keeps going around its damn axis, and you'll find that, like, since masonry is spread upon the whole of the earth's habitable surface, then it's just gotta be that the sun is at its meridian with respect to masonry, ya dig?"

Convinced yet?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by almadd2012
Convinced yet?


Perhaps, but not at all about your absurd accussations.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by almadd2012
Convinced yet?


Perhaps, but not at all about your absurd accussations.


Well, what "unfortunately" happens with "secret societies" is that only some "get it", and the rest just pay the dues and go through the motions, having fun (and, I'll admit it, it was pretty fun at times) but not being part of the greater purpose. You can keep being lied to, or you can find out the truth by accepting the Holy Spirit. Cos nobody in lodge is going to let you in on the secret if you're not ready to be a scumbag.

You see, I was already a pretty bad guy when I joined masonry. I was also in a profession where I could be of great benefit to many brethren. So, those brethren "in the know" were eager to get their benefits from me and so opened up avenues for me.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 

If you think that is what Freemasonry is then you must not have paid much attention. Let's see if you can answer my questions posed to you in my previous post.

I know what Freemasonry is, there's nothing wrong with it. I'm not evil nor am I.


You see, it doesn't matter if you think Christianity and masonry are compatible.

Nor does your opinion that Christianity is not compatible with Freemasonry matter.


There are hundreds and hundreds of millions of people who call themselves Christian but who aren't.

And who are you to say who is and who is not? Is it your place to judge? I think not.


A mason does not believe this.

That's not true.


We're born ready to accept the Holy Spirit. Many of us receive it.

So you have a religious superiority complex?


A mason doesn't nurture the Holy Spirit.

You can't know that. That's up to each Mason according to his faith.

With all of these assertions, please cite how exactly in Masonry this occurs. Your opinion means nothing.


Do I ever feel sadness at having left? Yeah, I do. I had a lot of "friends" in masonry. It hurt a lot leaving. But when I left, do you know how many of those men remained my friend? None. Not a single one of them cared about me, once it became clear to them that I was not going to change my mind. That just confirmed that I had made the right decision.

Well, why would one stay a friend to you when you're calling us essentially stupid or deceptive, and possessed by the devil? You're also saying that you can define what our religion is, which is not your place. I wouldn't stay in communication with such a person.


You'll meet your maker one day.

I'm sure. Memento mori.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


As I said, there's no arguing with you because to accept the falsehood of masonry requires the acceptance of the truth of the one true God in Jesus Christ in a way you have not accepted. You can argue till you're blue in the face that you have, but that doesn't make it true. I also can't prove that you're not a true Christian by argument. I can prove it by simple reference to the fact that you're a mason, though. Circular? Maybe! Wrong? No!

Any cursory examination of what happens in masonry will show clear correlations with witchcraft, satanism, and other occult practices. Advanced masonic writers understand this. They revel in it, even. But for most people coming into masonry, the connection needs to be kept hidden. Not nearly as many as it used to be kept secret from, though: I knew several masons who had no qualms accepting that masonry was occultic. To accept this as evidence that masonry is evil, however, one must first accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior, receive the Holy Spirit, and open one's eyes to what masonry is. You, my friend, have not done that, and you will never be able to see how masonry is incompatible with Christianity until you do.

It's not that difficult a concept to understand. YES, I do wholeheartedly admit that I know something you don't about masonry. YES, I wholeheartedly admit that I know something about Christianity that you don't. YES, I wholeheartedly admit that I am a "bigot"; I do NOT accept that there are other ways to salvation besides Jesus Christ. I do NOT accept that it is valid to worship God, any god, including the One True God, in a masonic temple (or center, if you prefer). I do NOT accept that it is permissible to make blood oaths. The point I'm trying to make here is that, yeah, you can keep asking for "proof" of things that are knowable only by faith and personal experience, but you're not going to get any. I have faith. That is my proof. And I know that's not enough for you. So go back to lodge and play your games.

BTW, you just called masonry a religion. Can we go forward with that understanding? Pike, Hall, Mackey, they all admit it, so no worries. I know you need to pretend it's not a religion when talking to most people, but I'm not most people.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


"So you are absolutely certain that what you believe is 100% correct and everyone else is going to hell? Why keep all those useless eaters around? Why not kill them off and just enjoy the rest of your life without the annoyance of sinners?

Oh wait, I know! It's because out of respect for others, we accept that they might not all think exactly like we do and that difference is what defines us. So we have the choice to either persecute any and all who don't step in out foot prints or we can learn from them and they from us. (you might want to try that sometime) " Dude

You still avioded the point. Your very good at that seemingly. What other "Gods" that are incorperated into "GAOTU" proved themselves with anything other than seemingly believeable philosophys coming out of someones mouth as fact? #2- you are also good in putting words in my mouth- I never mentioned anyone going to hell. I'm not persucuting anyone, only debating FACTS. Seems like someone resorting to degredation of character, rather than someone showing truth to support thier position, or "Gods". Peace



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


And unless you give me some witnesses to miracles, so sure they died for it,or fulfilled prophecies, you have lost your arguement. Peace



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 

You have shown nothing to prove your assertions. Provide ritual citation to back up your charges.


Any cursory examination of what happens in masonry will show clear correlations with witchcraft, satanism, and other occult practices. Advanced masonic writers understand this. They revel in it, even.

Such as who? I'm guessing your going to quote Hall and Pike.


To accept this as evidence that masonry is evil, however, one must first accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior, receive the Holy Spirit, and open one's eyes to what masonry is. You, my friend, have not done that, and you will never be able to see how masonry is incompatible with Christianity until you do.

Again, your opinion means nothing. You are not one to say who has or has not accepted Christ and received the Holy Spirit. My support of Freemasonry doesn't negate that I have just because you say it is.


I do NOT accept that it is permissible to make blood oaths.

Blood oaths require one to spill blood during said oath. This doesn't happen in Freemasonry.


I have faith. That is my proof. And I know that's not enough for you.

Faith is the belief in something without proof so that is illogical.


BTW, you just called masonry a religion.

Where?

"Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it."
- Albert Pike, Morals & Dogma



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by almadd2012
You can keep being lied to, or you can find out the truth by accepting the Holy Spirit.


I find that no one is or has lied to me. My experiences have been for the most part all positive.

Just to make myself clear, I am not a Christian and I absolutely know I will find zero truth in accepting your Holy Spirit. I am not for organized religion and I never will be.


Cos nobody in lodge is going to let you in on the secret if you're not ready to be a scumbag.


I have no idea what secret you are refering to.


You see, I was already a pretty bad guy when I joined masonry.


Pity that, there should have been a bit more due diligence put into vetting you. 'Pretty bad guys' and 'scumbags' have no place in my Fraternity.


I was also in a profession where I could be of great benefit to many brethren.


Being?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

Let me play Devil's Advocate here:

  1. Jesus started imparting wisdom at the Temple at age 12. So did Buddha.
  2. Jesus was born of a virgin mother. So was Buddha, Zoroaster, Attis, Horus, and Krishna.
  3. Jesus was baptized in the river. So was Zoroaster and Horus.
  4. Jesus fled to Egypt to hide from King Herod. So did Horus.
  5. Jesus was baptized in the river. So was Zoroaster and Horus.
  6. St. John who baptized Jesus was beheaded. So was the fate of him who baptized Horus.
  7. Jesus is the Son of God, and Savior of the world. So was Krishna, Attis,
  8. Jesus was known as the Lion. So was Krishna.
  9. Jesus was visited by 3 Magi led there by a star. So did Krishna and Horus.
  10. Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by Satan. So was Zoroaster.
  11. Jesus had 12 disciples. So did Horus.
  12. Jesus performed miracles such as healing the sick (and others), was crucified, and resurrected. So did Krishna, Horus, and Zoroaster.

I could keep going.

End Times: A Comparison of the Eschatology of Hinduism and Catholicism
edit on 12-12-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 


This hits the nail on the head to me. You must know alot. Your post show it. Thanks for registering and shedding some "light" on the subject. Peace-Me



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Too easy! Those others are just MYTH. Jesus was in history, recorded in the talmud. It even aknowledges he performed miracles. There are many separate eywitness accounts to what Jesus did. they even endured death and were martyrs for it. You did not provide anything for your other "Gods", other than cite mythical similarities.

Come on man, give me instances where they passed the test Moses outlined. Show me where they predicted major events that came to pass in thier "books", and died and rose from the dead.

You and Aliester Crowley seem to have a affection for Horus..



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

God your stupid.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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By thhe way Ksig, I didn't mention the other mason in my life. You said my two uncles were BS, so you will not believe this either, but I don;t care how much you deny it- The truth is still the truth. I had a Brother in law who also was a mason. Just like the bad masons Almadd was talking about. After the 4th or 5th time he f'd over someone in my family, my dad didn't even refer to his name. He called him a-hole. That was an understatement. My sister wouldn't get it or believe it until one day the phone rang, and "she" asked my sister ,"who are you", and she said "I'm 'Johns' wife", and the lady said, "He told me you were dead, I'm his fiancee' " Oopsee. Well thats three masons who were living for thimselves in my life I knew personally. The odds show me a trend. Peace.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


No he's not, but you seem to be.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
By thhe way Ksig, I didn't mention the other mason in my life. You said my two uncles were BS, so you will not believe this either, but I don;t care how much you deny it- The truth is still the truth. I had a Brother in law who also was a mason. Just like the bad masons Almadd was talking about. After the 4th or 5th time he f'd over someone in my family, my dad didn't even refer to his name. He called him a-hole. That was an understatement. My sister wouldn't get it or believe it until one day the phone rang, and "she" asked my sister ,"who are you", and she said "I'm 'Johns' wife", and the lady said, "He told me you were dead, I'm his fiancee' " Oopsee. Well thats three masons who were living for thimselves in my life I knew personally. The odds show me a trend. Peace.


I tried to give you my true interpretation of how I see masonry and God. You have vastly different ideas. That's fine. But now you are trying to slag masonry by bringing up all your family members who were masons and also dicks. while you seem to point to masonry as the binding factor, I see it as your family seems to be filled with unsavory characters. I'd start looking on the inside before I spent time trying to dismantle a 300 year old fraternity. I am truly sorry for your abuse and I would never make light of that incident. If you have proof of masonry doing something illegal or bad,please bring it, as all of us want to eliminate trash from our fraternity. God Bless.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by almadd2012

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by almadd2012
 


you are a troll and an uniformed lost brain. You don't know anything about masonry other than what you have read on the wrong sites. Go back to your bridge. You know nothing. When you grow up and figure out how little you know, you will be at the beginning of the learning stage. Be gone now troll.


Nice. Can't have any of the non-masons on here beliving there's a real ex-mason posting who has actual knowledge about masonry, now can we?

I *am* a former mason, and I *do* know things about masonry, both the stupid ritual things, and the real, disgusting things. Call me a troll all you want, but it won't change the facts.


I don't believe you were a mason. As you said, anyone can read a book. But since you are so adamant about your involvement, how about your tell everyone here how many 16 year olds you slept with, where it happened, and who is still doing this. As far as I know, it's Illegal in most states and I would be happy to bring masonic or criminal charges against any mason who would do the things you suggest. (up to and including you)

So here is where you have the ball sport. Either show your cards or GTFO.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
I don't believe you were a mason. As you said, anyone can read a book. But since you are so adamant about your involvement, how about your tell everyone here how many 16 year olds you slept with, where it happened, and who is still doing this. As far as I know, it's Illegal in most states and I would be happy to bring masonic or criminal charges against any mason who would do the things you suggest. (up to and including you)

So here is where you have the ball sport. Either show your cards or GTFO.


There's just no arguing with someone who can't accept that he may just be one of those who are still (and will always be) in the dark. You're either fit for the job (and so get the job), or you aren't (and don't even know the job exists). If you're not fit for it, I'm very glad for it. Keep playing your lodge games.
edit on 13-12-2012 by almadd2012 because: cleanup



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

That's three unconfirmed Masons you could have made up, but regardless, your family problems do not show a systemic problem within Freemasonry.

reply to post by mikeangel
 

Why are you saying "he", I was talking to you.





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