Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

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posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


"Your link is just as confused as you are about this."

Funny though, you do no give one way that it is confused, or that the statements made by masons themselves are not true.




posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 



The God in the bible proved himself with all the true prophets, who were told what was about to happen in the future, and it happened. The test of truth Moses gave in the Bible. None of those other "Gods" did that. He also went way beyond scrutny, and manifested himself and performed miracles and wonders in front of the world, and died and rose from the dead. None of those other false "Gods"did that. Easy faith to me. Thats why at Judgement thier will be no excuse. It's impossible for it to be any other way to me, especially because after all that, he blessed me with miracles and wonders in my life I have seen for myself. God himself strengthened my faith to the point that I know beyond any doubt what the truth is.

God hated the false Gods of Egypt, Syria,and Babylon. "Ja-bel-lon". You get with other masons and do a little dance and mix his name with thiers. You base them into your "Creator". Too obvious to me. Peace
edit on 12-12-2012 by mikeangel because: Spelling



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by network dude
 


"Your link is just as confused as you are about this."

Funny though, you do no give one way that it is confused, or that the statements made by masons themselves are not true.


GAOTU is not A God, it is a term FOR God.

It cannot be made any more clear than that. I am sorry you cannot fathom that.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


YOUR term. The MASONs term. The new age way of grouping the one true God with the worlds false "Gods". I'm sorry you do not see that. I gave you proof that the God of the bible proved himself. You say you have acess to a Bible and know where God hated the false Gods of the middle east during the Old testament. O.K. man, show me where any of the other "Gods" that make up your "GAOTU' proved themselves by witnesses to miracles and prophecies like the true God did. I can show you where God punished men for worshipping other God's and hated them, or you can open the Bible you say you have access too.Peace

Also, you never answered the question on how your faith differed from the Catholics, because you said the difference was meaningless. Do you also believe and practice what I showed you they do? Does your priest become Jesus during the Service too etc. ?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by network dude
 


YOUR term. The MASONs term. The new age way of grouping the one true God with the worlds false "Gods". I'm sorry you do not see that. I gave you proof that the God of the bible proved himself. You say you have acess to a Bible and know where God hated the false Gods of the middle east during the Old testament. O.K. man, show me where any of the other "Gods" that make up your "GAOTU' proved themselves by witnesses to miracles and prophecies like the true God did. I can show you where God punished men for worshipping other God's and hated them, or you can open the Bible you say you have access too.Peace

So you are absolutely certain that what you believe is 100% correct and everyone else is going to hell? Why keep all those useless eaters around? Why not kill them off and just enjoy the rest of your life without the annoyance of sinners?

Oh wait, I know! It's because out of respect for others, we accept that they might not all think exactly like we do and that difference is what defines us. So we have the choice to either persecute any and all who don't step in out foot prints or we can learn from them and they from us. (you might want to try that sometime)


Also, you never answered the question on how your faith differed from the Catholics, because you said the difference was meaningless. Do you also believe and practice what I showed you they do? Does your priest become Jesus during the Service too etc. ?


Ii am a confirmed Catholic. I don't agree with organized religion as it in general is more worried about $ then souls. I don't think God has any use for $ or bigger churches, so I decided to have my communication with God privately. It has worked out very nicely for me that way. But you shouldn't be worrying about what I believe, you should be concerned with being sure what you believe is what God really wants.

You are grossly intolerant of all other beliefs. You will have to live with that fact. I hope God shows you the path sooner rather than later.
edit on 12-12-2012 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus isstill prejudice against sweet tea. The south will rise again.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


Here is a question for you. Do you believe in the God who in the Bible created the heavens and the Earth?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
YOUR term. The MASONs term. The new age way of grouping the one true God...


Did you miss the link to Calvin (a Christian) using this euphamism in the 1500's? It is far from a new-agey expression.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
I don't think God has any use for $ or bigger churches....


[T.V. Televangelist]But Gawd deserves a Por-sha. And Gawd desrves a circular driveway. So dig deep, deep, deep into your pockets for Jeezus.[/T.V. Televangelist]



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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There are two kinds of masons; those who get it, and those who don’t. Don’t mistake those who act like they don’t for those who don’t, though; many of those who argue for the goodness of masonry know very well what it truly is. That’s not to say that there aren’t those who don’t know what masonry really is who argue that it’s good, too. They’re simply repeating what they’ve been told.

The thing many non-masons don’t understand is that it’s not really about how “high” a mason is in degree. Degrees were useful once as an indicator of a mason’s status, but now any mason can achieve the 32nd degree simply by paying the proper fee to the Scottish Rite and going through the motions. It’s about what’s revealed to a mason about the true nature of masonry, and that comes through living a masonic life.

Part of that is the stuff that one learns through the degrees, sure, but most of the stuff one learns through the degrees is presented in a way that its real meaning isn’t apparent until long after one has passed that degree. Every mason knows, if they’ve read Pike and Hall, that masonry is secretive not only in that information is kept hidden and only revealed incrementally, but also in that those of the lower degrees are lied to about the meaning of the things they see, hear, and experience in the degrees.

The more useful way to know whether a mason gets it is to look at his life. You won’t be able to tell with most masons about their life, though, because they’re not going to broadcast it. Here, though, is where the levels of masons really show. A mason can go his whole life without getting much more out of masonry than a discount at his friend’s hardware store. But a mason can also get away with having sex with hundreds of 16 year old girls. It’s about influence and power, and you don’t just automatically get that by becoming a mason, you get that by getting in the favour of those who have power, by giving favours yourself.

Masonry is simply a step-by-step program of becoming evil. Many masons know nothing of this, because they don’t allow themselves to know anything. It’s as simple as this: an opportunity is opened up for you to do something bad and get away with it. No mason tells you to do it. No mason even acknowledges that there’s an opportunity for you. But the opportunity’s still there. Take it, and you’ll find that you get away with it (it was opened up for you). Once you start, you probably won’t stop. It’s the same as any path to destruction, only you have more people watching out for you.

So, back to what I said about there being two kinds of masons. There are those who get it and those who don’t. Those who get it know that they get more and more “good stuff” the more they help their fellow masons (because, hey, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours). That’s the same as any other fraternity, close-knit community, family, whatever, you say? Yeah, kinda. A good Christian knows Satan is everywhere. He knows we’re tempted to do bad for our own benefit all the time. But there is one difference between masonry and most other groups. Masonry does, in the end, actually recognize a different god from the God of the bible, and worship that god.

But does it really matter? In the end, no. Masons become evil by steps. And they do it under the guise of bettering themselves. Many believe they’re not doing evil their whole lives. But that doesn’t mean they’re not doing evil. Eventually, many masons, however, do realize what they’re doing. Once one realizes this, one understands that basic fact that all true Christians also know: Satan rules this earth. Masons with this knowledge, however, choose to continue to worship Satan, not God. What choice do they have? They’re enjoying the good life. If they left masonry, they’d lose everything. Most of their friends are masons by this point and their livelihood is based on connections with masons. Other masons know so much about their wrongdoing that they could be destroyed in an instant if they left. But more importantly, why would they want to leave? They’re already evil by this point. What’s it to a mason who does evil things to recognize that they worship Satan? Nothing. You already worship Satan through your actions every day. So they find out that the God they’ve been praying to all the years in lodge is Satan. Who cares? Call him Lucifer if you want. Or Jah-bul-on. Or, simply, the Most High. You know, All Glory, and all that.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


How long have you been a member of the craft?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.







edit on 12/12/2012 by Sauron because: add mod tags



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

Wow, you really don't understand other religions if you think Christianity is unique with stories of faith trials, physical manifestation in the form of a Savior, performing miracles, a resurrection story, and eschatology.

You're confusing faith with proof.


God hated the false Gods of Egypt, Syria,and Babylon. "Ja-bel-lon".

Well, you've either read Stephen Knight or someone who is quoting him, who provides no logic in his book nor does he provide any real proof. There is no mixing of 'gods'.

reply to post by almadd2012
 

What I say about Freemasonry comes from years of research and real-life experience. Where does yours come from?

"High level" Masonry is a myth, at least in the ways your kind thinks of it. Degree doesn't equal rank nor is the Scottish Rite the culmination or central authority over all of Freemasonry.

Masonry is not about "having sex with hundreds of 16 year old girls" nor about getting discounts at stores. Nor are we about power or anything like that.


Masonry is simply a step-by-step program of becoming evil.

Uh huh...
...right...


Many masons know nothing of this, because they don’t allow themselves to know anything.

Then how do you know about it then?


Masonry does, in the end, actually recognize a different god from the God of the bible, and worship that god.


Masons with this knowledge, however, choose to continue to worship Satan, not God.

Can you prove anything you've said?

The rest is just opinion and no fact to any of it.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
What I say about Freemasonry comes from years of research and real-life experience. Where does yours come from?


Sauron gets it. But then, so do you. You'll be in my prayers.
edit on 12-12-2012 by almadd2012 because: Fixing italicization (yeah, I'm anal)



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
"High level" Masonry is a myth, at least in the ways your kind thinks of it. Degree doesn't equal rank nor is the Scottish Rite the culmination or central authority over all of Freemasonry.


My kind, eh? The vast majority of my post showed that I know the degrees mean virtually nothing, but you've latched onto one little thing pointing the other way. Why? Oh, right, I know why... because you, like I, know the truth. That the Scottish Rite really is the only way "up" degrees-wise. And why wouldn't it be? You have to be a Christian to go through the York Rite, and every real mason knows Christianity and masonry are incompatible. Anyone who's actually a Christian who goes through the York Rite realizes that it's not compatible with Christianity at some point (generally when they realize that god's name is Jah-bul-on, in the Royal Arch degree). At that point, they jump over to the Scottish Rite (oh, look, a Royal Arch degree there, too? Interesting!) and move up the degrees as was always intended.

The York Rite takes more time. The Scottish Rite takes more money. The reason is that those who still believe in Christ need more time to have the Holy Spirit sucked from them before they can move on. Once they give up Christ, they can move from their unnumbered York Rite degrees back to the logical ordered continuation of their numbered degrees.

But, wait, there is no higher degree than the third degree! Sure, if you don't know that four comes after three. Sure, if you're blind and so can't see the steps on the pyramid diagram that's probably on the wall somewhere in the lodge building. Sure, if you're... well... an idiot.

Let me give you some advice, KSig... don't talk to me like I'm an idiot. I'm knowledgeable. I'm enlightened. I'm right. But you already know that.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by almadd2012
But a mason can also get away with having sex with hundreds of 16 year old girls.


Bah, sounds like my high school life. Maybe you should have played less Dungeons and Dragons or Nintendo.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 

Your kind = thinks they know more about an organization even though they are not members.

The Scottish Rite is just one branch and in recent years is the new "cup of tea". For a number of decades, the "superior" body to belong to was Shriners and before that it was the Knights Templar (of the York Rite). Far too many focus upon the numbering system of the Scottish Rite and its history, but fail to recognize the York Rite of Freemasonry. While I am in both rites I am very much more partial to the York Rite.

I am a real Mason and an actual Christian, and I disagree that Christianity is not compatible with Freemasonry (or vice versa). It's only your interpretation of what you think Christianity should be that is incompatible with Freemasonry. To me, Christianity and Freemasonry work together just fine. Although many prescribe to an absolutist, almost militant view of Christianity and in many cases they have taken out the compassionate Christ out of the Faith.


generally when they realize that god's name is Jah-bul-on, in the Royal Arch degree

Please cite source


The York Rite takes more time. The Scottish Rite takes more money.

Not really. They could take equal time in receiving and could cost the same. I actually think right now my York Rite bodies take more time and cost more to be a member than the Valley I belong to in the Scottish Rite. My point is that it depends on each area how much it costs and how long it takes for one to advance through each body.


The reason is that those who still believe in Christ need more time to have the Holy Spirit sucked from them before they can move on.

WHAT?!
I don't think you have any real understanding of the York Rite degrees and orders. I think you've read some regurgitated garbage and took it as fact.


Once they give up Christ, they can move from their unnumbered York Rite degrees back to the logical ordered continuation of their numbered degrees.

As you somewhat assert, there's nothing illogical about the York Rite not numbering their degrees since it is only in the American York Rite that these particular degrees are grouped together as they are. Outside the US system they are structured and operated quite differently. Also, from earlier remark the Royal Arch degree in the York Rite is older than the Royal Arch degree practiced in the Scottish Rite and don't hold the same ritual.

And no, one doesn't need to go to the Scottish Rite once they go through the York Rite...the York Rite has plenty to do in it.


But, wait, there is no higher degree than the third degree!

The other bodies are not superior to the Blue Lodge, but are called appendant bodies. Even with all of my titles, I still owe my homage to the Blue Lodge and when I attend Lodge I am given no special treatment due to my advancement through these two rites. Any honor given to me is because of what I have done in the Blue Lodge.


Let me give you some advice, KSig... don't talk to me like I'm an idiot. I'm knowledgeable. I'm enlightened. I'm right. But you already know that.

Well when you provide me something more than just what every other conspiracy theorist has thrown I might give your credit, but you haven't.
edit on 12-12-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


"My kind" is, as Sauron immediately picked out, a former mason who most certainly does have knowledge of what masonry is. That's why your arguments are humorous; I made them all myself when I was a mason, and knew they were false then as I know they're false now. I know there's no way I'm going to convince you of anything, because you already know what masonry is in your heart, but you've blinded yourself to it. I know the feeling.

You see, it doesn't matter if you think Christianity and masonry are compatible. That doesn't make them compatible. A true Christian can see this from a mile away. There are hundreds and hundreds of millions of people who call themselves Christian but who aren't. You're just one more of them. A Christian must believe that the only salvation is through Jesus Christ. A mason does not believe this. That, in and of itself, is absolutely enough to show any true Christian that you're not a Christian (although there's countless other reasons why they're not compatible). Simple as that.

We're born ready to accept the Holy Spirit. Many of us receive it. But we have to nurture it to keep it around. A mason doesn't nurture the Holy Spirit. A mason puts up walls to keep the Holy Spirit out. That's why it's so difficult for a mason to find Christ. When you're possessed by the spirit of the devil, it's very hard to let God in. I have never met a single mason who was true in his love of Christ. It was all just lip service (actually, the only time I *ever* heard "church" mentioned in my entire time as a mason (quite a few years) was the day after I left when the WM told me that he was "a church-going man"). I was a false Christian when I joined masonry. I joined hoping to find meaning in life. God. All that jazz. And I thought I did. Then I opened my eyes to what masonry really is, and left. I didn't waver, knowing that that's exactly how Satan keeps you. You read about masonry and see signs every day that it's evil. But you argue those doubts away. If there's one thing masons are good at it's learning how to justify wrong actions.

Do I ever feel sadness at having left? Yeah, I do. I had a lot of "friends" in masonry. It hurt a lot leaving. But when I left, do you know how many of those men remained my friend? None. Not a single one of them cared about me, once it became clear to them that I was not going to change my mind. That just confirmed that I had made the right decision.

You'll meet your maker one day. And maybe he'll forgive you. Maybe you truly are deceived. My bet, though, is you're just like I was; wilfully blind. And that, my friend, you WILL be held accountable for.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by almadd2012
"My kind" is, as Sauron immediately picked out, a former mason who most certainly does have knowledge of what masonry is.


Whence came you?



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by almadd2012
 


you are a troll and an uniformed lost brain. You don't know anything about masonry other than what you have read on the wrong sites. Go back to your bridge. You know nothing. When you grow up and figure out how little you know, you will be at the beginning of the learning stage. Be gone now troll.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Anyone with a black book (er, that's the color here, anyway), can answer silly questions to "prove" they're a mason, so to test me is useless. I'd prefer you simply accept that I'm being truthful.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by almadd2012
 


you are a troll and an uniformed lost brain. You don't know anything about masonry other than what you have read on the wrong sites. Go back to your bridge. You know nothing. When you grow up and figure out how little you know, you will be at the beginning of the learning stage. Be gone now troll.


Nice. Can't have any of the non-masons on here beliving there's a real ex-mason posting who has actual knowledge about masonry, now can we?

I *am* a former mason, and I *do* know things about masonry, both the stupid ritual things, and the real, disgusting things. Call me a troll all you want, but it won't change the facts.





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