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Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

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posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
[I don't know anyone who worships Fitz.




Neither do I (and I'm married!)

Fitz




posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


Just a joke sir. Trying to lighten the mood of the room.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 

Since you are Anglican, and I assume that YOUR idea of GAOTU is the God of the Bible, Who delivered the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt, I assume you will grasp this maybe..

His name is-Jesus, the only God/Lord/Master/manifestation/creator that ever proved himself by miracles, in this dimention, ever.


OK. SO you've created your own religion because Protestant churches of my acquaintance revere the Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. And you see the first word in all three parts? But that's His name in English. You still haven't been honest enough to admit whether that's His only acceptable name.

I might also add that for someone to suggest that the omnipotent all-seeing, all-knowing Almighty doesn't know that a Mason is revering Him when he directs his invocations suggests that either the person making the suggestion thinks the Almighty less than almighty or that that person has an agenda.

Fitz



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
Also, you never answered this direct question Fitz-

"Can you be initiated under the priestly books of the Egyptians, especially since your huge temples are saturated with representations of all of thier gods and parts therof?" Yes or no would be nice please .Thanks


Answered here. Do try to keep up

Fitz



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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You swallow all the New Age deceptions you two want. My God is real. And proven. All of the other "Gods" that make up GAOTU, are not. Be it Ptah, or whoever. They are myths you have unknowingly became brethren to.You yourself have been given the Bible "and have access to it" and profess it as your religion in your language, and It tells you there is none other but the God who delievered the Hebrews out of the desert. You give all the rationals you want. My God is God. GAOTU is a hypothetical Being made up of Him,"so you say" and all others. Bravo Sierra. "Thou shall have no other Gods before me", #1 out of Gods mouth to Moses right off the top. forget the language barrier. I used Ptah as an example. God gave his condemnation of the egyptian Gods point blank. Translate them into evey language apoken on the planet, they are still wrong. Masons say "GAOTU is all of humanitys creator Gods all rolled into one", and feed that to peplle who are asleep enough to accept it(most of the world). And you promote it and are brethern to it. Good luck with that. IMHO, your gonna need it. We'll leave it at that. I agree to disagree with you two.


Like I said before, ARE THERE ANY KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS IN THIS FORUMN?



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


How do you keep missing the point by so much? Are you doing this on purpose?

The GAOTU is not a God, it's a generic name FOR God. It's simply a way for everyone to not get hung up on What name God likes to be called. Hell, you yourself have given conflicting information here. Is his name Jesus, Jahova, God, Yaweh?

This is very simple. It's meant to be simple so everyone could grasp the concept. Please tell me you get this.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


"How do you keep missing the point by so much?- Dude

Aww shucks. We have something in common.


I am not Arabic, so I only know English. In English Ilslams god is "Allah" You are trying to tell me God=Alllah, just in a different language. On the Dome of the rock, The Islamic structure built on top of God's actual temple(the one you have a representation of and do your rituals in) it has at the top written Allahs Messengers specific decree- "Allah has no sons".(Hmm Jesus is Gods son and one with the father, the real creator) Yet you tell me they are the same and they are both one. And you both call him Gaotu. Hey, there is a creator God whos name is Jerkme(in English), and in my religion everone gets to do it. I got advice to you. If I were you and that was true, I wouldn't kneel and become bretheren to me. Do you get the point? Peace
edit on 10-12-2012 by mikeangel because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-12-2012 by mikeangel because: Clairity



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


If you were the Muslim talking to me about this, do you think he would concede to your belief in Jesus Christ? What about a Jew, do you think he would just cave in on his beliefs and admit Jesus was more than a profit and accept him as the son of God? Do you think that because you have very strong beliefs they would think they were wrong and you were right? No. They would be just as sure of their beliefs as you are of yours. So, now we get to the good question. Which one is right?

I'll wait for your answer..............waiting.............(just kidding, I am sure you think YOU are right. But, I have a news flash. The other two also think they are just as right.)

SO we now have a quandary. We can either exclude everyone that doesn't think like you from any group that gathers, or, perhaps we can act like adults and realize that since each person has their own beliefs, if we want to gather in harmony, we have to accept that others may not think exactly like we do and that's OK.

So is it against your belief to exist in the same space as someone who isn't a devout Christ follower?



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


"If you were the Muslim talking to me about this, do you think he would concede to your belief in Jesus Christ?"-

No they wouldn't-From the Koran placed on your "altar" and kneeled to-

[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

Can you understand this scripture from the Koran," Trinitairian Christian"????
Black and white. they say the trinity is "not", and (Allah in English, Our creator god) does not have a son. They will NOT, unless they lie or don't know the Koran, tell you that Jesus is one with "the creator God" and three persons. Read my friend. read. and possibly, understand.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


"So is it against your belief to exist in the same space as someone who isn't a devout Christ follower?"

Oh no. I am to Love them. I do try. and if they need andything or ask me for anything, I am not to judge them for anything they Do. Heck, even if one a male Epischopal priest, and they bang thier "husband", all legally condoned by the Church of England, and come serve me communion, I am not to judge, I am to say "amen'. I'm good with that. I just won't kneel with someone in a Temple and say my God who has a son iis the same as thiers who does not.Peace



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


"OK. SO you've created your own religion because Protestant churches of my acquaintance revere the Holy Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost"

No. I didn't create anything. It was revealed to me in the Bible(English).



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
I'm good with that. I just won't kneel with someone in a Temple and say my God who has a son iis the same as thiers who does not.Peace
Why do you have to compare, though?

If a chaplain offers a prayer at the opening of a lodge using "Grand Architect of the Universe" as a name, to a Christian brother, in his heart he can know that he is praying to Christ, while the Muslim brother standing next to him can, in his heart, be praying to Allah. The man speaking the words provides a framework, but the prayer happens in every heart and mind in the room, and their relationship with God is strictly their own.

It's not about saying Allah = Christ = Jehova = whatever. It's about men gathered together who can pray to the God that they believe in, without having to pick sides or argue over what to call Him.



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


If you cannot comprehend what I am trying to say, read Josh Norton's post. I am sorry you don't get it, but it's just re-confirmation that you wouldn't be a good fit for masonry. Peace be with you.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
I just won't kneel with someone in a Temple and say my God who has a son iis the same as thiers who does not.
A typical prayer offered at a Masonic meeting:

Most holy and glorious Lord God, the Great Architect of the Universe: the giver of all good gifts and graces: Thou hast promised that where two or three are gathered together in Thy name, Thou wilt be in the midst of them and bless them. In Thy name we assemble, most humbly beseeching Thee to bless us in all our undertakings, that we may know and serve Thee aright, and that all our actions may tend to Thy glory and to our advancement in knowledge and virtue; and we beseech Thee, O Lord God, to bless this our present assembling, and to illuminate our minds by the divine precepts of Thy Holy Word, and teach us to walk in the light of Thy countenance; and when the trials of our probationary state are over, be admitted into the Temple not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. Amen.
Now, would you be comfortable bowing your head while hearing such an invocation? Would it matter where you were when you heard it? Would it feel different in a church than at supper, perhaps? Would you be ok hearing that if the man standing next to you with his head bowed was Muslim or Jewish?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I'll quit wasting ya'lls time. But thanks for the understanding. No I wouldn't say that prayer . I know from the kindness of you alls explaining, that you are very similar to Ophra, in that you think that harmony comes with grouping all gods into one God, a "New Age" philosophy and religion, no matter what tha bible says about The God of our Bible being the only God, and how he alone proved thatt by manifesting himself , and performed wonders, miracles, and came back from the dead, and had witnesses. If you all want to be one with all other Gods, good. I will NEVER. That is seemingly a good prayer, but getting "enlightenment" from all you masons, I now know what that compass and square and the big "G" stand for. And because "He" is in that prayer, I ain't saying it. My God is one God, and it isn't GAOTU.

I'll leave this alone now. The real point of what I was trying to do is gone anyway, and probobly not good. I always thought that masons were spooky, now I know it. What I resent, is that the whole time they are excommunicated by my church (was my specific church), they(Knights) were making alot of the same mistakes. I really wanted to debate with the Knights.

But now I see that they aren't blasphemous at least to rename him with all other Gods., I'll just stay out of it and enjoy christianity with all of ;my "brothers" , which are people who believe in Jesus and attampt to follow his commands, not just only those who join my group and peform rituals with skulls,candles, blindfolds, ritual clothes, and allagorys. Ya'll are both wrong to me. I resent the deception I went through and what others are going through. Peace to ya'll-Thanks-Me



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


www.religiouscounterfeits.org...

This explained alot to me also.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


"Coils Masonic Encyclopedia", Henry Coils, page 516, 517 says: "Men have decided whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Yahweh, a partisan tribal God, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal undenominational, and international, divine spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man, that he cannot be known, named, or approached. So soon as man begins to laud his God and endow him with the most perfect human attributes such as justice, mercy, beneficence, etc., the Divine Essence is depreciated and despoiled. The Masonic test (for admission) is a Supreme Being, and any qualification added is an innovation and distortion."

To one who believes in the bible, this is Bravo Sierra



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by mikeangel
 


www.religiouscounterfeits.org...

This explained alot to me also.


Your link is just as confused as you are about this. I am sorry the material is beyond your scope. Your church is a much safer place for you than freemasonry.

If you can ever grasp the concept that GAOTU is not a God, but a term for God, then we can discuss, but until that time, your posts are fruitless. Not being mean, just stating fact.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

It's good to have a strong faith, but the very concept of faith means that God cannot be conclusively proven to exist. There will always be an air of mystery. Conclusively knowing would defeat the purpose of faith. Then again absolutists are not known for being logical or rational beings.

GAOTU is just a term to be applied by an individual Mason. As a Christian, GAOTU is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

So I asked someone else this, but was is your thought on the avatar concept used in other religions like Hinduism and the concept of the Holy Trinity?

reply to post by mikeangel
 

Actually "Allah" literally translates to God. Arab Christians use Allah in reference to God in the Arabic language.

reply to post by mikeangel
 

So you wouldn't describe your god as a "Great Architect"?

There's nothing deceptive in Freemasonry and you have the right to worship as you see fit (a major tenet of Freemasonry).



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


"Your link is just as confused as you are about this."

Funny though, you do no give one way that it is confused, or that the statements made by masons themselves are not true.






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