Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

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posted on Dec, 8 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 

I'll check the name, but pardon me if I'm not jumping since this is coming around as the whole witch hunt in England is occurring.




posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:05 AM
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Since your so pre-occupied, I'll give you more info to help. Years later, I went to church with my girlfriend, and during the service, I looked over to the other side of the church, and guess what. There he was. The United Methodist Church in Millington by the high school. Hope that helps. Let me know if it doesn't. I'll ride out to Millington and give you the exact address. I understand he's been dead for a number of years and someone else owns the house. The mason lodge in Millington is on Highway 51. Peace.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


Interesting that you pick one inconsequential component of my post and wax lyrical about that, ignoring far more relevant and important components, to whit:


Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
The Almighty is the Almighty. Full stop. In different cultures and languages, His name differs. However, he remains the almighty Creator of the Universe and all that is. Please parse for me the difference between the Almighty being called God, Dio, Dieu, Gott and GAOTU (combination of words in the latter case) since all refer to the same being?


and


Originally posted by FitzgibbonThe rest of your screed doesn't merit attention. As for your successor post, you'll pardon me if I don't buy the existence of your pair of "morally wrong" uncles nor your story of abuse. All it needs is a bow for it to be wrapped-up oh-so-pretty

Fitz


I'm calling Bravo Sierra on the latter story because his has more than a faint whiff of trolling and I'm still waiting for a response to the practical etymological differences between God, Dio, Dieu, Gott and GAOTU.

Truthfully, I don't expect one (aside from "imo") to actually come

Fitz



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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Interesting enough, you continue to sidestep and ignore, or overlook the question I asked you. What are the allowed "deitys" "creators" are allowed to be initiated under when you kneel at the "altar"? You did say they cannot be diets someone else created, but the "creators" themselves. Ptah is the ancient egyptian creator diety. Is he O.K.? (Accepted as GAOTU).Can you be initiated under the priestly books of the Egyptians, especially since your huge temples are saturated with representations of all of thier gods and parts therof? Translated into whatever language you want. Peace
edit on 9-12-2012 by mikeangel because: Clairity
edit on 9-12-2012 by mikeangel because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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God, Dio, Dieu, Gott= Different language translations of English- GOD
GAOTU= I'm trying to find out. Not getting very far.
Peace



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
GAOTU= I'm trying to find out. Not getting very far.
Peace



John Calvin, in his Institutes of the Christian Religion (1536), repeatedly calls the Christian God "the Architect of the Universe", also referring to his works as "Architecture of the Universe", and in his commentary on Psalm 19 refers to the Christian God as the "Great Architect" or "Architect of the Universe". source



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
Interesting enough, you continue to sidestep and ignore, or overlook the question I asked you. What are the allowed "deitys" "creators" are allowed to be initiated under when you kneel at the "altar"? You did say they cannot be diets someone else created, but the "creators" themselves. Ptah is the ancient egyptian creator diety. Is he O.K.? (Accepted as GAOTU).Can you be initiated under the priestly books of the Egyptians, especially since your huge temples are saturated with representations of all of thier gods and parts therof? Translated into whatever language you want. Peace


As has been pointed out repeatedly in this forum in other threads, before admission Masonic candidates are asked if they believe in a Supreme Being that created all that is, was and will be. As long as they can in all truthfulness answer "yes" to that question, the particular name they use to identify that Being is moot. The word varies among languages and religions but the simple fact is that there can only be one Creator of the universe and insisting that your language's and religion's word is THE word is a typically childish human response. There aren't any "deitys". There is Deity, the Alpha and Omega. As far as Ptah is concerned, as long as that is the name given to the ultimate Creator of everything that is, I would expect that would meet the threshold of all else being subservient to Him.

Insofar as our "huge temples" are concerned, our temples on the main are modest affairs reflecting ourselves as modest men. The larger temples are emblematic of nothing more than local membership being well-to-do at the time of construction. In my experience, recently constructed temples lean towards the utilitarian.

Fitz



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
God, Dio, Dieu, Gott= Different language translations of English- GOD
GAOTU= I'm trying to find out. Not getting very far.
Peace


Different words though from the standpoint of an English-speaker. How can you KNOW that those non-English words truly are the same and not hiding some difference?

Fitz



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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I read where this was answered before I could read it.
edit on 9-12-2012 by mikeangel because: Courtesy



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 



So you say you are fraternal brothers with those whos God is "Ptah". And you believe it is no big deal because you have been told He is the same as God Almighty, King of Kings, Lord of Lords ( What most bible reading Christians consider God), and you all call him GAOTU, right? Peace-Me



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


So you say you are fraternal brothers with those whos God is "Ptah". And you believe it is no big deal because you have been told He is the same as God Almighty, King of Kings, Lord of Lords ( What most bible reading Christians consider God), and you all call him GAOTU, right? Peace-Me


I'm saying that if (operative work "if") Ptah is the almighty Creator of all that is, was and will be why am I to parse this differently from Dio, Dieu or Gott?

How many Supreme Beings exist (or could exist) in your world?

Fitz



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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Ksigmason- "So because you cannot wrap your mind around certain symbols then it must be wrong?"


Maybe I can. And I know it's wrong.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


One.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


One.


Un huh. And his name is.........?

Fitz



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by mikeangel
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


One.


Un huh. And his name is.........?

Fitz


now FItzy, that's a damn bit presumptuous don't you think? I don't know anyone who worships Fitz.



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 

Since you are Anglican, and I assume that YOUR idea of GAOTU is the God of the Bible, Who delivered the Hebrews from slavery in Egypt, I assume you will grasp this maybe..


His name is-Jesus, the only God/Lord/Master/manifestation/creator that ever proved himself by miracles, in this dimention, ever. None of those other "Creators" are nothing but a idea that made sense to somebody and they proffessed it as fact. Jesus had witnesses, and is even recorded in the Talmud as performing miricles. Many recorded, separate men in history died for testifying to his miracles and power, and resurrection back form the dead, and changed the course of the world. He, his father, and thier spirit are one. Ptah is nothing, and his related Dietys represented in all of your "Temples" are too. You been suckered IMHO by a very "crafty" deciever.. Ptah has a earthly manifestation, Apis, which was a bull worshipped in Egypt at hte time of the Exodus, after the Egyptian priest proclaimed it as Apis.(Worshipped calf-Hmmmm-ring a bell?, you say you got access to a bible, have you read it?) Apis was said by the Egyptian priest to have originated not of sex, but a bolt of lightning, and Apis is the resulting manifestation of ptah, the creator..(Hmmmm, Jesus said he saw Satan fall as lightning) Dated all the way back to the Exodus, and was the main bull diety of Egypt, and had huge temples in Memphis, Egypt.(Ever wondered why they made a calf to worship, and God almost wiped them out?). IMHO makes your Jewesh "brethren" look really ignorant, stupid, or asleep, because they base thier God on the Torah, and should be spiritually competant to know better, or at least not be "fraternalising" in temples with Egyptian Dietys, having history at thier fingertips with the web like I do and priding thieirself on observance of the Torah, which clearly outlines Gods disdain for the false Gods of Egypt, but become brethen with those who worship him as God, just like the old days.. Look it all up. Read it and try to resist your self programming, like you think I have, or repeat your Biblical rectal crainial inversion IMHO. Peace-Me
edit on 9-12-2012 by mikeangel because: Clairity



posted on Dec, 9 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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"As an Anglican, I parse Him in the same way as other Protestant Christian denominations do. My Catholic brethren parse Him slightly (though not meaningfully) differently"- Fitz

You say you worship slightly differently than your Catholic brethren, but not meaningfully. Does that mean you re-present Calvary too, and Get the literal Body and blood of Jesus by sacrifice,, and thats what your liturgy of the eucharist is based on.? (Real and true sacrifice as they put it?) Is your priest believed to be literally Jesus too at the consecration? Just curious. Peace



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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Also, you never answered this direct question Fitz-

"Can you be initiated under the priestly books of the Egyptians, especially since your huge temples are saturated with representations of all of thier gods and parts therof?" Yes or no would be nice please .Thanks

edit on 10-12-2012 by mikeangel because: Clairity



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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From wiccipedia-

"The Apis bull is unique as he is the only Egyptian deity represented solely as an animal, and never as a human with an animal's head—perhaps, because from the earliest of Egyptian religious practices, they were animals sacrificed to the cow goddess and represented the resurrected, renewal of life (Hapy and later Osiris).

Apis was originally the Herald (wHm) of Ptah, the chief god in the area around Memphis. As a manifestation of Ptah, Apis also was considered to be a symbol of the pharaoh, embodying the qualities of kingship.

The bovines in the region in which Ptah was worshipped exhibited white patterning on their mainly black bodies, and so a belief grew up that the Apis bull had to have a certain set of markings suitable to its role. It was required to have a white triangle upon its forehead, a white vulture wing outline on its back, a scarab mark under its tongue, a white crescent moon shape on its right flank, and double hairs on its tail.

The bull which matched these markings was selected from the herd, brought to a temple, given a harem of cows, and worshipped as an aspect of Ptah. His mother was believed to have been conceived by a flash of lightning from the heavens, or from moonbeams, and also was treated specially. At the temple, Apis was used as an oracle, his movements being interpreted as prophecies. His breath was believed to cure disease, and his presence to bless those around with virility. He was given a window in the temple through which he could be seen, and on certain holidays was led through the streets of the city, bedecked with jewelry and flowers."



posted on Dec, 10 2012 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by mikeangel
 


Now that you have studied a bit about the Egyptian Deitys, do you worship them as well?

If not, then isn't it possible that the study of other religions and cultures doesn't necessarily mean that the group doing the studying is automatically worshiping that which they study?

I cannot speak for all Freemasons, maybe some of them do worship an Egyptian God, but as has been said, as long as they believe in their heart that the God they worship is the creator of all, then they fit into the criteria freemasonry requires. And that doesn't mean that the Freemasons who believe in Jesus Christ and the holy trinity have to change or alter their beliefs any at all, they just have to accept that not everyone thinks as they do. Therein lies the harmony. I don't see how anyone could think that's a bad thing unless they were so closed minded to others right to worship as they see fit.





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