Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

Ksig mason- you said "That website displays the "Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor" which is somewhat different to the ritual practiced today"

Do three masons stand together, in the "three-by three-by three" or whatever you call it, and alternately spell G-O-D, Je-ho-va, and JA-BEL-LON or something close? Are you that far up to know? Sixth I think, the Royal Arch.

Thanks-Peace-Me

"I don't make my oath to heaven or anything else, but to God. Would you say that every politician, public servant, or military official has broken this scripture,?" Ksigmason

If they swore-Yup. Peace

Originally posted by mikeangel


" If I wanted to Join Masonry, and My God is Lucifer, and I had a book written by someone supposedly "inspired" by him, I may recieve the initiation with that book on the "altar" ? What about Voodoo? Which religious books are permissible to be initiated under? Any rules regarking that? "

Respectfully, Me
Peace



.

That's not up to me. If you truly believe the God you worship created everything and is the only one who did, you could call him 'Satan pie with Ice cream' and nobody would ask you. It's your honor that ultimately makes that decision. Only you have control over that.

reply to post by mikeangel

No, Freemasonry stays stays away from the observance of religion.

IMO, technically Lucifer was created by another being so he cannot be considered a "supreme being" so no with that belief you could not be a Mason.

Look up the etymological roots of "altar" (it means a high place, somewhere which is why the Holy Books are placed there).

Freemasonry does not meet the basic criteria to be considered a religion.

As far as the term" Worshipful Master" meaning somebody deserving respect, from old English , If it is wrong when they used it, does that maki it right for you, even though it implys worship to someone you are enslaved to?

Who says it was wrong for them to use it? The term does not mean we worship that officer or that we are enslaved to them. That is just fact.

reply to post by mikeangel

I did indeed say that.

I am a Royal Arch Mason and have presided over that body, and currently sit as a Grand officer. We have our modes of recognition, but what do you wish to know from this?

reply to post by mikeangel

Well, if you're an American you can thank those for your freedom who you condemn to Hell.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by mikeangel

 

When masons address the worshipful master, they are doing so out of respecf for the title. Nobody worships the master. We pray to God, although we refer to him as the grand architect of the universe so men of any faith can worship in the name they attribute to God. Our belief is that all paths to God are good ones as long as they lead to the same place.

GAOTU is not God of the Bible. You say not to thump the Bible and quote it. If it is the standard and rule of living of a Christian, How can I not quote it, If I am not twisting scripture to make my points, but using general biblical knowledge, I don't see where that should be cause to make someone shut down. (Unless you are not Christian. and in that case I have nothing to discuss, wish you peace, and leave the rest up to God, better or worse)

But like I said, to another Christian, when I read statements,like the one above, the first thing that pops into my mind is this scripture-

Isaiah 42:8 Translations
King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

And the Masonic Temple ( The huge on e in Washington) has Graven Images all over the outside of Egyptian dietys, and snakes all over the walls inside, IMHO, it just soes not pass the sniff test to whats good, true, honest open and forthright. I won't go on and on with you with tit for tat quotes and differances of opinion on the dangers of secrets and allagorys vs.being above the table honest and open. We'll leave it at that. Peace, good luck, and God's mercy to both of us.-Me

Are theit any Knights of Columbus out there reading this?

"Well, if you're an American you can thank those for your freedom who you condemn to Hell."

That's not right. You are implying I'm judgeing them (final, live or die) and I am not. I merely said it trangressed scripture. Thats where me and most thumpers part ways. I admit that I also am guilty of sin. I pray for mercy and try to follow whats right as outlined in the bible, but no one can say what God's gonna call. What if the Roman Catholic church and the Masons are test that God wants to be here for his benifit? I am nothing and leave all that up to him, In the mean time I can state my opinion on what I consider point blank right and wrong.

Originally posted by mikeangel

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by mikeangel

 

When masons address the worshipful master, they are doing so out of respecf for the title. Nobody worships the master. We pray to God, although we refer to him as the grand architect of the universe so men of any faith can worship in the name they attribute to God. Our belief is that all paths to God are good ones as long as they lead to the same place.

GAOTU is not God of the Bible. You say not to thump the Bible and quote it. If it is the standard and rule of living of a Christian, How can I not quote it, If I am not twisting scripture to make my points, but using general biblical knowledge, I don't see where that should be cause to make someone shut down. (Unless you are not Christian. and in that case I have nothing to discuss, wish you peace, and leave the rest up to God, better or worse)

How do you have the right to say what name or what deity I attribute to GAOTU when I pray in lodge? That's like me telling you your God is the wrong one. Hell, I can only assume you mean the Omnipotent one who created all, that's the one I talk to. I believe him being the only one and omnipotent and all, he is the same one. Don't you?

But like I said, to another Christian, when I read statements,like the one above, the first thing that pops into my mind is this scripture-

Isaiah 42:8 Translations
King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

What is God's name? Right, we don't know. I don't think he cares what you call him, only that you DO call him.

And the Masonic Temple ( The huge on e in Washington) has Graven Images all over the outside of Egyptian dietys, and snakes all over the walls inside, IMHO, it just soes not pass the sniff test to whats good, true, honest open and forthright. I won't go on and on with you with tit for tat quotes and differances of opinion on the dangers of secrets and allagorys vs.being above the table honest and open. We'll leave it at that. Peace, good luck, and God's mercy to both of us.-Me

That's just ignorance making you not understand the "sniff test". All those symbols have meaning. maybe they only have meaning in some other religion, or some other group, but to not study and understand those symbols and those other religions and groups is turning a blind eye to the rest of the world. All that information is out there to be had. One just needs to look for it. At the Scottish Rite temple in D.C., there is much symbolism in the building and if you took the tour, you could ask about each one and if the guide was knowledgeable, he would be able to explain it. I won't bother to tell you nothing is evil or satanic, if you ever care to find out, you can do so on your own. You won't believe me anyway. But that one building is a fascinating display of knowledge that even a non mason who was interested in history of religions would drool over.

Are theit any Knights of Columbus out there reading this?

edit on 8-12-2012 by mikeangel because: (no reason given)

Thank you for communicating with me. You have given me more insight into the masons and I did get "enlightenment" about masons. If you allow someone who thinks Satan is God and have him kneel and accept him as your brother mason, you have fun with that, even if you and millions of masons say and explain why there is nothing wrong with it. Thats your decision. As for the Dietys and Egyptian symbols and Gods all being GAOTU, who you revere, you are right, freedom allows me to steer clear.. You said before, whoever is right or wrong will be blessed or cursed by God, and I beg God (Jehova/Yaweh) everyday to bring his day, and end the confusion, so, we'll see............., Peace man, Thanks again-Me

I'd love to know whether English-speaking Christians would consign non-English-speaking Christians to the eternal fire because they don't refer to the Almighty as God but as Dieu (French), Dio (Italian), Gott (German), бог (Russian), etc.? Does the Almighty not recognise His Name in these other languages and ignores their prayers, invocations and blessings because they aren't praying to God?

If not, them why do you parse GAOTU differently?

Fitz

reply to post by mikeangel

GAOTU is a generic term for each member to apply to his particular faith. To me he is the God of the Christian Bible. Who are you to say who my God is?

Are you talking about the House of the Temple? Or the George Washington Masonic Memorial?

So because you cannot wrap your mind around certain symbols then it must be wrong? HA!

There's nothing wrong with secrecy and the Bible makes no condemnation of it, but there are quotes that support have secrets. Plus, when you think about it, secrecy builds trust.

reply to post by mikeangel

You say you haven't judged, but you have.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

Well duh! Didn't you realize that God is limited to one language!?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Well duh! Didn't you realize that God is limited to one language!?

Funny ol' thing that. First it's Hebrew. Then it's Latin. Now it's English. I wonder if it'll be Mandarin next?

Fitz

I don't care what language you are speaking. You are avoiding the point and mucking up the truth imo. If you take GAOTU, and believe that he is whatever your members conceive him to be, be it Satan(in all different languages), plus Baal, Molech, Lucifer, Elvis, all the Egyptian dietys ,combine them(imo blasphemously) with the God of Gods in my Bible , into being your creator of existence, and become brothers with them under him, IMHO, basic biblical truth and the spirit within me tells me steer clear, and it is sinful and wrong, black and white. If you , and millions of Masons are good with it, and don't mind being yoked with them, fine. If you think having an altar and celebrating rituals in a copy of God's temple in Jerusalem isn't religion, we'll see what The God of Abrahim, Issac, and Jacob has to say about it at Judgement day. What he thinks, IMHO, is all that matters, and he states in the Bible very, very clearly not to worship anything or anybody but him. God punished people very harshly for worshiping the Gods you combine with him.. That is truth and Enlightenment to me, in any Language. Peace-Me

One more time, I have not and do not Judge you. I said before. I fall very short, and attempt to follow God's law as I understand it from the Bible. I do have an opinion, from the understanding and love I have for God and the truth he gives in the Bible. I pray for mercy for myself, and you all too. We are going to need it IMO. soon.....Peace

Originally posted by mikeangel
Thank you for communicating with me. You have given me more insight into the masons and I did get "enlightenment" about masons. If you allow someone who thinks Satan is God and have him kneel and accept him as your brother mason, you have fun with that, even if you and millions of masons say and explain why there is nothing wrong with it.

As I said, if you think the creator of all is called Satan, then you pray to the same God I do and your Priest does. You just call him by a different name. Obviously calling him Satan would cause a bit of confusion with devil worshipers and the like, but your faith is your business. I get the feeling you don't quite understand what I am saying with that.

Thats your decision. As for the Dietys and Egyptian symbols and Gods all being GAOTU, who you revere, you are right, freedom allows me to steer clear.. You said before, whoever is right or wrong will be blessed or cursed by God, and I beg God (Jehova/Yaweh) everyday to bring his day, and end the confusion, so, we'll see............., Peace man, Thanks again-Me

Woa, wishing for the end of the world? Not quite yet. I heard rumors there was no beer in heaven so I have a few things left to do here.

To clarify and end my involvement in this discussion, there is only one God. Only one creator of all. (in my belief)
There is one omnipotent all powerful, all knowing Dude. I call him God. Some call him Allah. Some call him Jahova. Some call him Yaweh. It's my belief and that of some masons that no matter what name you give him, you are still praying to and referring to the same guy. God. The purpose of that is to allow men of many faiths to work and pray together without singling out any one religion as "the right one". As anyone with half a brain knows, only death will reveal your report card in life.

Thanks dude.Fyi-I do beg for the end of the world every day.
My 2 uncles wee 32 degree masons, and led morally wrong lives.
You can get favor in court, out of tickets, favor over non-masons for bidding work, and other things as well. You by oath have to aid another mason if at all possible. Wether you do or not, I know this to be true and have witnessed it.
I was molested by a mason in grade school. When my parents tried to prosecute, the police told them they were wasting thier time.
He was the leader of the demolays, and took out of town trips with youth (point being I have reason to not trust). Nothing was done to him, and their were others besides me.
The K of C are almost as wrong as the masons,.
God will end this and all confusions, hopefully soon.
I wanted more understanding, and you so graciously took the time and gave it to me. Politely.
Seriously, thanks, Godbless, and happy trails-Me

reply to post by mikeangel

Neither Satan or Baal, Molech, and so on are not supreme beings as they were created by another.

Just because you interpret us as wrong doesn't mean we are.

reply to post by mikeangel

You know I've never been given favor in any way, but then again "everyone has a [insert family or friend relationship] who is a Mason". Nepotistic activity as you describe goes against the teachings of Freemasonry. Plus, nepotism occurs between people of all relationships. I've got out of tickets before, but because of my family name, not because of my Masonic affiliation.

You by oath have to aid another mason if at all possible. Wether you do or not, I know this to be true and have witnessed it.

We're also charged to be good citizens and also note that we are to aid "worthy" Brothers. Those who break the law and shame the Fraternity are not worthy.

I was molested by a mason in grade school. When my parents tried to prosecute, the police told them they were wasting thier time.

Names?

reply to post by mikeangel


Wow, I am very sorry to hear that. I can understand where your apprehension comes from. There is nothing I can say about that. Masons are just men. We try to police our ranks, but sometimes I guess not as good as we would like to think.

God bless.

Originally posted by mikeangel
I don't care what language you are speaking. You are avoiding the point and mucking up the truth imo.

Not in the slightest (assuming it's my post you were replying to). The Almighty is the Almighty. Full stop. In different cultures and languages, His name differs. However, he remains the almighty Creator of the Universe and all that is. Please parse for me the difference between the Almighty being called God, Dio, Dieu, Gott and GAOTU (combination of words in the latter case) since all refer to the same being?

As an Anglican, I parse Him in the same way as other Protestant Christian denominations do. My Catholic brethren parse Him slightly (though not meaningfully) differently. Likewise my Jewish brethren.

Originally posted by mikeangel
If you take GAOTU, and believe that he is whatever your members conceive him to be, be it Satan(in all different languages), plus Baal, Molech, Lucifer, Elvis, all the Egyptian dietys ,combine them(imo blasphemously) with the God of Gods in my Bible , into being your creator of existence, and become brothers with them under him, IMHO, basic biblical truth and the spirit within me tells me steer clear, and it is sinful and wrong, black and white.

If

Fact is, we don't and you've just created a strawman argument to be knocked down by yourself. All Regular Masons believe in a single, almighty Supreme Being that created all that is, was and will be. For you to toss-off a hypothetical belief of a hypothetical Mason in a created being as somehow being more than the Creator and then lumping all Masons in with your hypothetical Mason is beyond ridiculous and verges on trolling.

Originally posted by mikeangel
What he thinks, IMHO, is all that matters, and he states in the Bible very, very clearly not to worship anything or anybody but him.

That much we can agree on. The rest of your screed doesn't merit attention. As for your successor post, you'll pardon me if I don't buy the existence of your pair of "morally wrong" uncles nor your story of abuse. All it needs is a bow for it to be wrapped-up oh-so-pretty

Fitz

reply to post by KSigMason


I knew hin as Mr. Calhoun, in Millington Tn on RENDA. Street. 38053. Because the cops wouldn't touch him I burned a cross in his yard that said "FAGGOT". My parents found out about it, chastised me verbally about it, and that was it. I cut his grass.He asked me to stay because he had heart problems and wanted someone to be there in case he had a heart attack, because his wife had to go out of town.. He took me out to dinner and to play niniture golf and seemed as friendly as it got, that is until I woke up in the middle of the night with him getting in my pants. Want to know the rest? Don't doubt me in this. As God lives it's the truth. I got witnesses to me screaming down the street. It was the same ti,e John Wane Gasy was found out. I literallly thought I was going to die. I have learned from other kids close to masons things are done and swept under the rug. My Uncle f'ed around on my aunt for seven years, and his cop masons covered for him all the time. Eventually he had me paint her house, after he was found out. I know how the south and masons work. If you don't good on you. Head in the sand, no foul. to you. Peace.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Anglican, your Catholic brethren, literally produce and sacrifice Jesus on the altar every Sunday. The only differance between that and Calvary, they say, is it is bloodless, besides the fact that they tell you that it is literally the very blood of Jesus, not a symbol. If you want I will go to the Catholic Encylopedia and quote it all for you. They believe that they are Transubstantiating the bread and wine into literally the very body and blood of Christ, by Re presenting Calvary, a true sacrifice, and thats the only way to get true communion. That is why my Nun Aunt and some other Catholics believe that if you are not Catholic, it sucks to be you and you are lost (My moms family is Southern Baptist, My dads is Catholic, all the way back to Germany). At the moment of Consecration, the priest is literally considered Christ himself. Even though I followed this my entire life, untill I read both the RCC core beliefs and the whole Bible back to back, I did not know better., IMHO its wrong to in light of scripture.(Pauls letter to the Hebrews-god was sacrificed once on Calvary, forever, once for all)

I loved my uncles. I loved my dad. I have no idea how the world got so bent. I say and believe, God was right, the whole world is evil, me included. Nothing is good but him."Deliver us from evil" Peace