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What Would Cause You to Stop and Listen?

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posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 





I've now answered two sets of five questions. Will you now worship me and assume I know everything about the universe?


Your answers are riddled with fallacies, so no.




posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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Great, OP.

I have only one question:

How can I access/experience the truth?

______________________

See where I am coming from? There is no ONE truth - there is just what we experience.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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Just breezing by and could not help but laugh. Not in a mean way, but humor. Actually very few would listen to this man for a number of reasons, one being there are so many with that message, we are all calloused somewhat. I will put this out there as to what has happened to me.


Now first, I don't really care for recognition for that is not why I shared, but I was surprised at the lack of interest and the attacks that were directed at myself. The short of it, I have gone through much that others here have talked about, vibrations and awakening. On one memorable night, I woke to a high pitch sound, eyes popped open and then intense vibrations. I was awake. I then found myself outside of my body along with a few others whom I could not see and shown my light body and given a simple message.

I put this out there and was ignored which is fine, as others at least read this. The others were all over me for I saw a demon or similar. You know this is pretty damn unique and shows that each of us are in fact quite important and sacred, yet it will be debated and trashed. Nope nothing will be accepted from a man of truth.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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1. What is your truth?
2. Why?
3. What is its motivation?
Questions 2 and 3 repeat
4. What is my truth?
Questions 2 and 3 repeat
5. What is the universal truth?

Unless it's God, this person won't make it past question 1.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Again, you are labouring under the belief that five questions (or fifteen or fifty) would be sufficient in all instances, but my point is the opposite -- the inquiries are necessarily unique to the person and the claims being made. Without a specific instance, with specific claims, what you ask is likely impossible, because the validation needs to come out of what is claimed.

In other words, there are no generic questions (or even suppositions) that can apply across the board. The ability to discern what a reasonable line of questioning that demonstrates credibility or lack thereof (again, I think that you'd be hard pressed to ask anything that would demonstrate "truth", so you're left with discerning what someone's credibility is) would be the role of the person who is interacting with the specific individual making claims.

As with LordBucket, I would be curious to know what the point of this is, and what your questions might be.


I did toss a few out already, but let me try again. What I feel is needed is a suite of requirements that only someone with the entire overview of physical reality would be capable of fulfilling. And yet, the answers should contain information that - if incorrect - would clash with either the other answers he'd give (internal logic failure) or clash wit what we already know to be true (failure due to extrapolated association).

Let's see...

1. What forms the basis of all immutable laws of physical structure?
2. How is this consistency imposed?
3. Why - if true chaos is impossible, given the clear existence of pervasive order - are there instances of seeming chaos and brief inconsistencies that have been perceived?
4. What is the logical nature of a true anomaly?
5. What is the primary impetus for the existence of physical order?

I don't know. I keep going back to extremely primitive concerns, and I still believe that this is where the real evidence sits. Gp ahead and tear those up if you wish. Anyone that insists that they KNOW, would have to answer these 5 questions, and those questions would not be able to be inconsistent with one another or describe a reality that simply isn't compatible with what we already know is true about physics. Important, too, is that the man wouldn't need to be a physics professor to answer these. In fact, a physics professor couldn't answer these. It'd be pretty obvious that the guy was not real if he couldn't answer these questions without violating something somewhere.

That said, if he passed this test, there would have to be more indepth analysis. That goes without saying - I would assume.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by truetrigger
truth?...... 5 questions to ask to find out if this dude has " the truth "

Facts, on the other hand....... thats a different kettle of fish.......
Fact doesn't require you to believe in it......it's still a fact......

and that..... is a fact.


This is what I'm trying to establish. Factual questions that only a man who claims to have the Truth (the facts concerning who and what we are, the nature of reality, etc) would be capable of answering. How can anyone suggest that the Truth is not factual?



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by MrVortex

Originally posted by NorEaster
reply to post by MrVortex
 


Sort of a Gnostic way of seeing things. No workable questions then. No sweat.


Nope. If the person knows "THE TRUTH" it must be self revelatory and evident beyond doubt. Any additional explanations should be obsolete or it is not the complete truth. It is quite possible that we cannot comprehend it at all, but I doubt logical debate with such a "truth holder" would bring you anything more than circling around in loops of argument. And think of it that way - anything you can form as an ideation is limited by your perceptual apparatus - each last detail of the world must be processed by you or it doesn't exist (for you) - so can you really "recieve" the complete "Truth" that way? Or must you abandon this "filter" if it is possible at all?

Yep, you can say Gnostic, but you limit my enquiring position with a label that doesn't explain it completely and I wouldn't do that to myself or anyone else.




Okay...not Gnostic then. How about unaware of the fact that reality exists as a concrete and not as an abstract premise? The fact that you can even dismiss reality as a construct of the human mind should be proof that beneath your esoteric musing lies a consistent and reliable matrix of extremely rigid redundancies that allow you to exist - let alone consider the nature of that existence. Without that completely definable structure, you would not exist. It's a simple as that.

I'm not looking to debate the nature of reality. I'm looking for a suite of questions that would force anyone who claims to KNOW "the Truth" to prove that he knows at least part of "the Truth" before allowing him to blather on about more esoteric aspects of "the Truth." The actual immutable nature of physical structure seems like it would have to be part of "the Truth", since everything that we are, as corporeal thinking beings, depends on that physical structure. We know enough about it to be able to verify pretty much any new information he might have. And, there are very definite areas of physical existence that we just don't know, and that scientists just haven't been able to make sense of. That's where I'd start with this guy.

I reject the lazy notion that reality can't be known, or that a person's head would explode if presented with the overview of how physical existence is laid out. That just sounds like the intellectual equivalent of cracking a beer and turning on the Cartoon Network.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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I would guess those answers (or Truth as you say) are MORE than factual.

If you can convey them through human ideational expressions you limit them to this form - like a TV set cannot KNOW what it is, so it is very likely we cannot (insert an unknown word) what we are, etc. Because through KNOWING we cannot reach that "Truth" which might as well lie outside such ideations as KNOWLEDGE, EXISTENCE, MEANING...
We can only explore the mechanism of the world from our state of being, the complete "Truth" might not be accesible through that and such a "person" couldn't convey it through words and ideas.




Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by truetrigger
truth?...... 5 questions to ask to find out if this dude has " the truth "

Facts, on the other hand....... thats a different kettle of fish.......
Fact doesn't require you to believe in it......it's still a fact......

and that..... is a fact.


This is what I'm trying to establish. Factual questions that only a man who claims to have the Truth (the facts concerning who and what we are, the nature of reality, etc) would be capable of answering. How can anyone suggest that the Truth is not factual?



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by NorEaster
Having the Truth about reality is one thing. Having dominion over reality is quite a different thing.


...thats your opinion and your choice to arrogantly presume that "dominion over reality" has to be part of my hypothetical scenario...


...imo (in my opinion), anyone who claims they have THE TRUTH (about what we perceive as reality) must have (1) some control over reality - or - (2) the ability to initiate some control over reality - or - (3) the ability to influence reality... if they do not, they're selling bs and/or are psychotic...

...if they are capable of any of the above, it does not mean they know the whole truth about everything to do with our perception of reality... they might or they might not... i think not is far more likely...

...apt examples are timothy leary and timothy mcveigh... both thought they knew "truth" and both changed many people's perception of reality via bs...


Originally posted by NorEaster
This man hasn't claimed to be Jesus on a cloud come back for the 2nd act.


...perhaps you slung that erroneous presumption because you believe in the existence of deities and, therefore, anyone like the man in my scenario must be a god...

...the hypothetical man in my initial response could have been a man from another world, in another universe, that is intellectually far superior to us but, still, just a man - not a god...


Originally posted by NorEaster
He's claimed to have the Truth concerning what we are, how we fit into reality, the nature of reality itself, and the truth about God as it relates to us. Where does this claim intersect with "the war machine"?


...what a shame that you have to ask...


Originally posted by NorEaster
Knowing the truth about something is not the same as having control over it.


...your challenge was not about knowing the truth of SOMETHING...


...you were specific in that the hypothetical man claimed to know the truth about what we perceive as reality... you did not issue your challenge with the condition that responses had to be in alignment with your mindset... i answered your challenge... you either didnt appreciate or understand my response / view... o'well, thats how it goes sometimes...



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by NorEaster
I listed some here, but I'm not happy with them. They don't cross-confirm to any real extent. Still the ramifications of some of the man's answers would be verifiable, even if not to the degree that I'd be happy with. I'm asking here because I'm having difficulty with this effort.

1. How do you make your living?
2. Do you obey the law of the land?
3. How do you make sure you stay healthy?
Number three is the toughest one to answer.




Yes, #3 is the toughest one to answer.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Quasar_La-Zar
Well if this person would be of superior nature to us, IE knows what happens when you die, everything about the universe including the unknown to us, then I would ask what the real model of physics would look like without the human misunderstandings, if he could prove to us a new model of science that turns out to be tested and confirmed, then I would surely sit and listen to anything else he has to say.


I don't know that anyone that is human can be of a superior nature as compared to other humans. I wouldn't understand the criteria to assess such a thing.

I think that something related to physics would be good. Maybe something pre-physics, since that would be territory that hasn't really been overworked, and yet it would be provable by examining the impact his answers would have on physics in general.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by NorEaster
If this guy walked around and around on me (personally) with this sort of vague invitation to cast off specifics and embrace the ether of communality, then I'd probaby walk off on him. Reality is real. If I step off a 20 story building, I will fall 200 ft (or so) and either die or be seriously damaged by the fact that I stepped off that building. No amount of emotional, spiritual and psychological development within myself will alter the nature of that 20 story plunge to the pavement below. It may alter my own experience of that plunge, but in the end, my corporeal husk will hit that pavement at a rate of 32 feet per second, and I will likely explode like a water balloon.

Just so long as I did not push you!

Sounds to me like you're looking for a quantum physicst with a grand unified theory of quantum gravity, in which case, I am definitely not your guy.

However, it may be worth considering that that's all just "civil infrastructure".. not "the truth".


I would think that part of "the Truth" would be how things work, and why they work. Not the kind of working level that physicists deal with, since their area of expertise involves examining established physical organizations and infrastructures. Some questions about what causes those types of organizations to exist, maybe. That way, he'd be breaking new ground, but it'd be something we could get a real handle on by way of logical extrapolation.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by FIFIGI
Great, OP.

I have only one question:

How can I access/experience the truth?

______________________

See where I am coming from? There is no ONE truth - there is just what we experience.


If this is true, then what allows you to exist? What causes your own body's atoms to remain faithful to you as you get up from a comfortable chair? Imagine losing you *ss to the warm seat of a chair as your molecules decide they they aren't going anywhere. So, if there's no Truth, then what forces those atoms to remain as part of your *ss?

Especially those atoms. Seriously.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Goal Shack
1. What is your truth?
2. Why?
3. What is its motivation?
Questions 2 and 3 repeat
4. What is my truth?
Questions 2 and 3 repeat
5. What is the universal truth?

Unless it's God, this person won't make it past question 1.


And how would you discern the truth of his truth? Just curious.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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The truth is not factual........
I'm not saying that truth is not factual.... Far from it.....

It's just truth is subjective to one's own perspective..... Hence the saying there are 2 sides to every story.

There are many different " truths " depending on who is telling it and who is listening.
Then in between these truths lye's the facts......

" I'm telling the truth "
" I believe you "

As I said..... Facts need no belief.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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1. Now, keep in mind that in the past, people would expect such a man to have extraordinary abilities - to be able to perform "signs and wonders" as proof of his access to the Truth - but we all know now days that advanced technology enables the performance of "signs and wonders". Miracles can easily be the employment of advanced technology, and advanced technology isn't proof of anything other than access to advanced technology. Certainly not proof - not any longer - that a person possesses the Truth concerning the largest questions about what is real.

Do you not feel or see what is missing from this statement? What type of energy do you think they possibly possessed that allowed all an opportunity to experience the love they portrayed? You are living in 3D, if a man like you describe walked up to you to reveal truth, what are you feeling? Even a wild animal can sense an energy or magnetic change



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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Question 1: Using your mind's eye, create the image of an imaginary key; what does it look like? And, if you were to see that key on the ground before you, what, if anything would you do?

Question 2: Again, using your mind's eye, create a body of water (can be *any* body of water or any size, but you must "create" a personal mental picture, not simply remember a real place); what does it look like? And, if you MUST cross that body of water, in what fashion would you do so?

Question 3: Using that same mind's eye (wipe the image of the water from your mind, this is a new image), picture some form of a barrier or wall before you; what does it look like? And, if you had to cross it, in what fashion would you do so? Finally, once you pass it, what do you see --using your mind's eye to create an image, --don't remember any real place.

Question 4: Who are you? Be complete.

Question 5: Why do you consider *your* Truth to be *The* Truth? Be complete.

Well, those are the first ones that come to mind anyway.

ADDITIONAL COMMENT: I think Obi Wan Kenobi said it well in Episode 6: Return of the Jedi:
"The truths we cling to depend greatly upon our point of view." -or something to that effect.
edit on 5-1-2011 by GhostLancer because: Added the quote from Obi Wan Kenobi.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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1. How do you know what you think you know?
2. How do you know you exist?
3. Does reality have a purpose, other than to exist?
4. Why are you imparting this perspective to me?
5. What is the nature of the first creator (god)?

"Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -Marcus Aurelius



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by NorEaster
I reject the lazy notion that reality can't be known, or that a person's head would explode if presented with the overview of how physical existence is laid out. That just sounds like the intellectual equivalent of cracking a beer and turning on the Cartoon Network.


Nice visual


I agree, and tend to dismiss anyone who makes the claim that what they know cannot be known by anyone until they have been similarly enlightened. It's a legitimate point, to a degree, but it implies that you have to waste a bunch of time before you can even begin to determine whether you're wasting your time or not. Knowledge of the esoteric isn't that important to me.

Your questions are fine, but you don't really have any way of testing the veracity of the answers, unless the truth is something reasonable. If it is unreasonable, you would find the answers unreasonable and dismiss them as a kook. Saying that you wouldn't dismiss it as unreasonable would be an indication that, if the truth was reasonable, but the person's answers were unreasonable, you would accept them, making the whole exercise pointless.

The only way that it would work is for your series of questions to distill down into a question that you do know the answer to and can verify, but all other answers are beholding to. Not sure how that would work, and I can still see how it could be gamed.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


It took me a while to get here, hell I'm still looking over ATS... even though I know better.

Guess it's a mental compulsion... anyways...

Try feeling right above your heart, you'll notice a tingling. Go from there.



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