Originally posted by tgidkp
cheers to both you and mrvortex. i am a grad of the songwriting program at berklee.
I used to busk in that T station. I love that little section of the city.
....I know that you can't concretely explain to me what this HIGHER LEVEL means in a way that I'll be able to understand....The average
intelligent and aware individual on this planet hasn't got this perspective and wouldn't even be able to accurately describe what this perspective
of course i can, i certainly didnt mean for it to be obscure. i, too, am not terribly fond of the metaphysical elitists. even the least
sophisticated person understands perfectly by direct apprehension the difference between "Me" and "my mind". that is why it was my first example.
they may not be able to put into words, precisely, how this relationship works. but i assure you that every person has a quite intimate working
knowledge of their own mind.
what allows this to happen is that "I" can observe the contents of my mind from a HIGHER LEVEL. in fact, my own self concept could be described
exclusively in terms of the contents of my mind as a type of formal system similar to PM. but, similar to the follies of PM, "I" can construct mental
abstractions which are irreconcilable from the perspective of the mental functioning itself. this is why "I" exist at a higher level than "my mind".
and Godels Theorem exists at a higher level than PM.
I hate that I have no idea what PM refers to. I wish I was more knowledgeable of what everyone else has already moved beyond.
Concerning the observed mind, I have to confess that I see the whole process of thought, and the impact it has on perception, as being very different
than you do. I can't separate the product from the process itself, and probably because I can't logically find the point of separation between what is
and what brought it into existence.
I'll try to describe what I mean.
When an event occurs, the direct result of that event is the fact that the event occurred. It's immediate, and regardless of what was perceived by
whatever might've perceived it - or regardless of whether it was not perceived as having occurred at all - what emerged as fact (a very primitive and
elemental form of information) accurately represents the specifics of that event (including the contextual relationship that the event shares with all
that existed at the precise moment of the occurrence of that event) with a disinterested clarity, since each bit of information contained within the
fact is directly linked via causation to what brought it into physical existence.
This is how data (fact-centric information) comes into existence. This is the only way that information of any kind can come into existence. That
said, the event itself can have properties and/or be of a specific nature that the information it causes to emerge can be very different per specific
event. Large-scale matrixed events - such as an entire football game, with all the event sub-assemblies that are logically identified as being part of
the holon unit identified as that unique and specific football game - produce a much different identifiable information whole than (let's say) one
play within the whole of that football game. Related, yes. But still, the difference between the identified wholes is obvious, even if the unit of
elemental structure for each is common. Like the difference between a wall and a cathedral. Both made of stone, but one definitely different in
identity than the other.
Conscious thought (we'll limit this to human thought for obvious reasons) is the result of the human brain's response to physical existence. That
response can be further specified as being due to external stimuli, or internal rumination of stored data (the result of previous responses). The
range of specifics are well established, so we won't bother with that digression. What we want to examine is the nature of the brain's activity and
the kind of information that emerges in direct response to that activity.
To call this form of information sophisticated is to give that word a raise and a corner office. Intellect (I prefer to use this word to shorthand the
description of this form of information - I assume that it'll be okay to seize this term for use in this small explanation) is true awareness, and
this is because the brain itself has achieved the capacity for dynamic awareness. The difficulty in "finding" that awareness within the brain's
structure is because it is not the elements themselves that possess the awareness. There is no "human being" particle, or God particle that sits
inside the brain. The awareness is the event itself, occurring as a string of unitary events (like the string of unitary events that organize to form
a simple orbit), and organized to form a massively complex identifiable event (like that football game) that we have termed the corporeal life of a
Now, since this event (and all sub-assembly - holon - events contained within it) exists only due to its capacity to achieve and maintain true
identity (the most fundamental of all survival imperatives), it is critical that the inclusive event's Identity's consistency is treated as of
primordial importance. This is where the brain's memory cells come into the picture, and where the "conscious mind" emerges as significant. Without
this information/event symbiosis, the human experience would be a chaotic nightmare of disjointed images that would emerge and the scatter into
meaninglessness. When the partnership doesn't work right, we call it insanity. Simple as that.
Now, keep in mind that this partnership between the brain's data storage and the conscious mind involves the ongoing presence of the corporeal
information management system (the DNA), and at times there are clashes between the conscious mind and this contextual precedence, and sometimes the
DNA wins (I couldn't stop myself from eating that greasy piece of chicken) and sometimes the mind wins (I couldn't stop myself from getting bombed
last night). Usually, neither completely wins and the human being responds to life in a shifting blend between both. Freud's Id-SuperEgo-Ego battle
sort of examines this constant contest, but of course it's more complicated than that. It's essentially the battle between corporeal survival and
transcendent expression - regardless of how seemingly base that expression may actually appear to the enlightened perspective.
After all, transcendence is not an objective determination, and the conscious mind's dedication to unique expression is simply that - a dedication to
unique expression, regardless of that expression's level of relative quality. Inimitable expression is about establishing information Identity
(survival) and whatever achieves that end is considered successful.
How it is that we experience this entire effort, is that our conscious mind (I call it The Personality, because it creates what we've always seen as
personality) - that gathering mass of informational response to our brain's relentless activity - has its own agenda (this information is aware, being
the complete and accurate informational representation of awareness - making it aware) and as I just stated, that agenda is the crafting of unique
identity. As I also stated, it battles for management of the brain's ongoing information generation (each brain-centric event causes information to
emerge into physical existence, as you recall), and does so by choosing what it deems important and routing that response to the memory cells that
such information is stored (carbon is an excellent data storage material, by the way - much better than silicon), as it shunts unimportant information
to other regions of data storage. This process finalizes during REM sleep, and is why the brain will eventually malfunction if prevented from
achieving REM state. Short term data storage is a holding tank. This Personality effort is a two stage process.
Now, as this initial triage is occurring, our short term data storage is being fed the Intellect information that our Personality has deemed pertinent
and of importance. This process is what we experience as corporeal consciousness - the triaged awareness that our Personality has prepared for the
brain as ongoing experience. Like I said, the Personality has the agenda of crafting this inimitable Identity, and it's got the brain as its tool to
accomplish this. The DNA can do what it likes, but the Personality has firm control over what it knows to be most influential - the consistency of
reality as experienced by the aware brain. Our Identity emerges as the Personality forces the brain to serve the primordial significance of ongoing
event consistency. Like I said, this Intellect mass (the mind) is aware, and will have its way as long as the brain remains functional. Being the
result of event consistency itself, the corporeal brain knows no other way that to maintain what has been established as consistent.
This begins to occur (the taking command of the information generation process by the Personality) as early as 3 and 4 years old for most human
beings, and really kicks in after the first significant challenge by the DNA informational presence within the body and brain itself (inside every
cell) when puberty hits and launches the massive hormonal changes that it launches. This is why teenagers start running off cliffs in search of
themselves. There's no how-to guidebook to crafting an inimitable identity, and most human Personalities end up latching onto one archetype or another
and hopefully it all ends up well.
So, in my view, this is how the mind sits "out there" and inspects itself. Like the operating system of a computer, the Personality accepts, rejects
and directs all potential information that is generated in response to the brain's withering flurry of ongoing activity. The person's experience of it
is the actual data storage of the triaged information set - from instant to instant - as the Personality moves from one Intellect burst to the next
and does its best to make sense of how best to utilize what it has, to achieve what it exists to achieve - a dynamic, aware informational Identity
that will emerge from this life-long corporeal generation process as a fully viable human being.
Yes, I know that it's not how other people see things, but this is what I see.
Now, I think I'm going to take a nap. Thanks for taking the time to respond to the questions.
edit on 1/7/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)