Originally posted by SFlowers
So can I ask you for evidence that there IS a God?

Dont get me wrong, I believe in the Christian God (not necessarily the church... cults are scary and I just got out of one). I don't post topics like this because I can't prove what I believe. So, forgive me, but maybe you should prove the existence of God before asking why people don't believe in Him?

Just my two cents..

Yes certainly, maybe I should. I myself am a Christian, but I am not of the opinion that everyone must be Christian, everyone has a choice and I am ok with anyone belief, as far as I can understand an anti-theist is not ok with everyone's beliefs, since their ANTI-theist. I have no proof for or against God, which is exactly why I ask for it. I am not saying that anti-theists are wrong, and am not requiring them to prove their claims, but for my own knowledge I wish to know their opinion.

Originally posted by infoquest
Hi im just going to throw one out here and say although there is no historical proof (i can find) of God/Jesus, plently of archeological proof has been found to support the bible.

For instance -

Noah's Ark has been found exactly where the Bible says it came to rest. i know the koran states this also but cant be counted, as historical proof states the koran was writtin thousands of years after the REAL bible.

The walls of Jericho

and many others.

also a previous post in this thread states that religion is full of pedo's and killer's! can i just point out that most people who dont believe in god will use this same lame excuse, if you belive in god then most people would also believe in satan who corrupts our church to make the weak minded leave comments like that and stay away from church.

Evolution - in my opinion is BS, how can anyone believe that a whole planet or set of planets actually came about through a big bang? then to top it of bits of dust and particles and stuff mixed together to create a monkey that then evolved into us. lmfao, some people are just funny

anyway thats my two pennies worth..

First of all, Noah's ark, as far as I know it has not been found, only some wood has been found around the area where they are looking for it (which explains why it has been found in the exact place-I actually didn't even know they had coordinates in the bible). History does support the bible, but as far as I know, this particular example is incorrect.

Walls of Jericho, haven't heard of that one.

"if you belive in god then most people would also believe in satan who corrupts our church to make the weak minded leave comments like that and stay away from church." Fair point I think.

"Evolution - in my opinion is BS, how can anyone believe that a whole planet or set of planets actually came about through a big bang? then to top it of bits of dust and particles and stuff mixed together to create a monkey that then evolved into us. lmfao, some people are just funny"

It is their belief. I believe they had fish first and it, through time evolved into the human of today. You have to understand though, there is evolution, at least small scale evolution. Who knows, God could have used evolution to make us. But yes, the idea that everything was made by a big bang (although there is the idea everything was before it too, somewhere) is a bit strange and hard to understand.

it's impossible to prove there is a god or isn't a god only depending on how you define god. If there is a god, what is it? A man in the sky watching from the clouds has been disproven. A creator of the universe? Now there's where we reach the point where you can't disprove god.

It is possible to disprove that "Holy" books were written by god. Who wrote the Gospel? Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I'm pretty sure those were humans, not aliens or gods, that wrote those books. It's been proven that all religions were created by man for man, however, it's impossible to prove god doesn't exist. Atheists take the fact that religions have been disproven, to assume that means a god couldn't exist.

I sort of forgot to add that there is a surefire way to prove for yourself once and for all whether or not god exists. Kill yourself and you will know for sure.

Originally posted by Ghost374
I sort of forgot to add that there is a surefire way to prove for yourself once and for all whether or not god exists. Kill yourself and you will know for sure.

OK, thanks for the tip.

The funny thing is though, if you are right, you cant tell me "i told you so", but it works vice versa.

"Evolution - in my opinion is BS, how can anyone believe that a whole planet or set of planets actually came about through a big bang? then to top it of bits of dust and particles and stuff mixed together to create a monkey that then evolved into us. lmfao, some people are just funny"

Evolution isn't as simple as you describe. It's actually completely different from what you describe. I'm bored so I'll give a very brief overview(it's a process that took billions of years so anyone who tries to describe it is leaving stuff out and a lot of the details still aren't known)
First DNA was created(DNA has been created with just heat and chemicals so it didn't take god to make DNA). This DNA eventually entered a single "cell," which is just a phospholipid bilayer(which forms quite easily on its own.) This single cell began to replicate, and mutated over generations. Eventually these cells formed colonies. Then certain cells began to specialize specific functions. First, plants were created, which caused oxygen to enter our atmosphere in large quantities. Then the first "animals" evolved. They kept evolving until today. Of course they evolved into dinosaurs which were wiped out, but according to you I suppose God just placed those fossils to confuse us? Or were humans around while the dinosaurs lived? I forgot how you guys deal with that fact. The thing about evolution is it doesn't prove a god doesn't exist. It just means a god didn't create everything out of thin air 6000 years ago.

Originally posted by Ghost374
First, plants were created, which caused oxygen to enter our atmosphere in large quantities. Then the first "animals" evolved. They kept evolving until today. Of course they evolved into dinosaurs which were wiped out, but according to you I suppose God just placed those fossils to confuse us? Or were humans around while the dinosaurs lived? I forgot how you guys deal with that fact. The thing about evolution is it doesn't prove a god doesn't exist. It just means a god didn't create everything out of thin air 6000 years ago.

Hmm, so ever thought about the fact that the bible has always stated that God created the heavens and the earth in six phases?

1. Sun
2. Earth
3. Dry land and seas, then Plants
4. Moon and stars
5. Sea animals and birds
6. Animals and then Man
Note that this is what I just compiled, might be wrong.

Notice how plants were created before animals in this version too. And animals were created before humans, therefore dinosaurs could have died before humans lived, couldn't they?

Exactly how do you prove God did not create earth? I would like you to prove that it all happened by chance.

I think you are missing my point, you do not need to go to church or belong to a church to believe in a God.

You might find if you look back at what i posted, i didn't say that

What you mean makes sense to me now completely, thank you. I now understand your point and need to research it, however I am unsure how they could have modified it to say anything they can benefit from.

I can give examples if you like.... For instance,

(reincarnation)
Completely taken out of the bible yet if you look hard enough you can still find proof that it was taught originally.

(Eating meat)
Jesus was a vegetarian, did not believe in eating meat for any reason

(Sacrificing animals)
The need was completely abolished when the christ came onto the scene, yet still practiced due to the fact that church and state was the same thing...and both still used pagan rituals of blood

(Missing Gospels)
Over 80 "gospels were left out of the bible for various reasons, some of which include things that prove jesus was nothing more then a man that was spiritually gifted. They didn't want anything to disprove they have the only "God man"....yet another case of.... "our religion is better then yours...heres proof" And of course my favorite...instances of Jesus himself sinning....theres even a pasage in one of the gospels that were taken out that jesus litterally kills another man in frustration. Gone...i find it quite funny actually.

Well if it is "in the name of God" you have less reason (I think), because in that case religion did not really cause it, the perpetrator is only using religion, getting rid off religion will not get rid off the problem, they will do their horrible acts in the name of something else.

Actually you are completely right....but this excuse is the problem. Its one thing when your leader wants to attack someone for whatever reason. But when God wants it done, what choice do you have....God is a vengeful and terrifying being who will strike you down if you don't listen to his representitives. (ya right)

Originally posted by Akragon

I think you are missing my point, you do not need to go to church or belong to a church to believe in a God.

You might find if you look back at what i posted, i didn't say that

What you mean makes sense to me now completely, thank you. I now understand your point and need to research it, however I am unsure how they could have modified it to say anything they can benefit from.

I can give examples if you like.... For instance,

(reincarnation)
Completely taken out of the bible yet if you look hard enough you can still find proof that it was taught originally.

(Eating meat)
Jesus was a vegetarian, did not believe in eating meat for any reason

(Sacrificing animals)
The need was completely abolished when the christ came onto the scene, yet still practiced due to the fact that church and state was the same thing...and both still used pagan rituals of blood

(Missing Gospels)
Over 80 "gospels were left out of the bible for various reasons, some of which include things that prove jesus was nothing more then a man that was spiritually gifted. They didn't want anything to disprove they have the only "God man"....yet another case of.... "our religion is better then yours...heres proof" And of course my favorite...instances of Jesus himself sinning....theres even a pasage in one of the gospels that were taken out that jesus litterally kills another man in frustration. Gone...i find it quite funny actually.

Well if it is "in the name of God" you have less reason (I think), because in that case religion did not really cause it, the perpetrator is only using religion, getting rid off religion will not get rid off the problem, they will do their horrible acts in the name of something else.

Actually you are completely right....but this excuse is the problem. Its one thing when your leader wants to attack someone for whatever reason. But when God wants it done, what choice do you have....God is a vengeful and terrifying being who will strike you down if you don't listen to his representitives. (ya right)

I thought I said the first thing to someone else, I might go back and check. Reincarnation in the bible? Well you sure don't hear about it, so it could have been modified, I just wonder how they originally benefited from forging reincarnation out of the bible or religion. I never knew Jesus was a vegetarian, and wonder why he would be, eating meat is rather important. Sacrificing being used, I don't hear or see about sacrificing these days.

The missing gospels is certainly a good point, after reading the Da Vinci Code (which is fiction) I did start to research a bit about these missing gospels for a while, however could not find an easy Internet version (eg. pdf or something) so I just forgot about it.

Jesus sinning? I have certainly always heard how Jesus was perfect, and can understand that someone would want to wipe that passage out. I wish to read this before I believe it though, its a rather big claim.

Thanks.