ATF wants gun control... in the USA... because of Mexico

As many here predicted this would happen when that bastard Calderon asked it last year... gun control IN THE US... to ``help Mexico``...

Doesn't that sound like NORTH AMERICAN UNION thinking to me?

ATF: Laws are for the Little People

That’s the only message I can take away from the ATF proposal to require Federal Firearm License (FFL) holders to report the sale of two or more semiautomatic rifles that accept detachable magazines in states along the border with Mexico. In other words, this is gun control for the sake of Mexico.

Thing is, the proposal breaks the law. The ATF doesn’t have the authority to do this.

As David Hardy notes at Of Arms & the Law:

There are several violations of the Gun Control Act, as amended by the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act. First, 18 USC §926(b) provides “The Attorney General shall give not less than ninety days public notice, and shall afford interested parties opportunity for hearing, before prescribing such rules and regulations.” This is stricter than the Admin Procedure Act’s general provision for a “reasonable” comment period, and it has no emergency exceptions. ATFE is only giving 30 days’ notice.

Second, the FOPA amendments were intended to cut off future requirements of direct reporting — I say future because the existing regs (including reporting of multiple handgun sales were grandfathered in, but limited to those specific requirements. Thus far and no farther.

Those thugs at ATF never stop do they?

Better idea.... Erect a 40 foot concrete border wall, for the sake of Mexico.

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reply to post by Vitchilo


Well I'm glad I live in the mid-west due to the fact that i own at least 15 semi-auto rifles that all have detachable magazines and i plan to sell a couple soon to get a new one or two that will DEFINATLY accept detachable mags

Instead of controling the firearms themselves why not just control who buys them?

Obviously the gov cannot stop the people that sell weapons illegally but they can keep violent people from buying them legally, or even up the age to 21 just like with pistols because frankly 18 year olds don't need even single fire shotguns much less semi auto high powered rifles.

Originally posted by solarstorm
Better idea.... Erect a 40 foot concrete border wall, for the sake of Mexico.

edit on 3-1-2011 by solarstorm because: because I decided to add a word. Thanks ATS for micromanaging my edits.

You are so right! How can we NOT secure the border and help the Mexicans keep out all those illegal weapons and the illegal evil US Americans that are sneaking across the border to sell guns!

We must secure the border... for Mexico's sake!!!

Originally posted by solarstorm
Better idea.... Erect a 40 foot concrete border wall, for the sake of Mexico.

edit on 3-1-2011 by solarstorm because: because I decided to add a word. Thanks ATS for micromanaging my edits.

Yeah that would be a good way to stop them from croosing ABOVE ground but they already tunnel their way over here

I have a radical idea: instead of messing around with OUR country for the sake of Mexico, why don't we go down to Mexico and mess with THEIR country for the sake of their country. We could send down legit police force's to the problem neighborhoods to clean up the mess of the cartels so that maybe a portion of the mexicans that sneak into the USA to escape them have a reason to stay. Maybe create some job programs down there so that they will not sneak across to make some money. But that'll never happen in my wildest dreams, we have enough problems of our own already.

Anyway, what's the ATF going to do, get a list of the owners of semiautomatic weapons and just knock on their doors like "Hey give us your guns, you can't own them anymore". I don't think that'll work so nicely

What difference will that make? the CIA will continue to supply the cartells anyway, they are just looking for any excuse to minimize US Citizens with weapons.

I'm getting rid of all my guns and will be using hi wattage infrared lasers.
they better have eye protection...hahahahaha

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


I've heard that a lot that the CIA funds the cartels. Is there any actual evidence of this? Or is it just speculation. I mean, my jaw wouldn't exactly hit the floor if I found that was true, because they don't seem like the most trustworthy organization out there, with the secret keeping and murdering and what not

Originally posted by DontLegalizeDecriminalize
I have a radical idea: instead of messing around with OUR country for the sake of Mexico, why don't we go down to Mexico and mess with THEIR country for the sake of their country. We could send down legit police force's to the problem neighborhoods to clean up the mess of the cartels so that maybe a portion of the mexicans that sneak into the USA to escape them have a reason to stay. Maybe create some job programs down there so that they will not sneak across to make some money. But that'll never happen in my wildest dreams, we have enough problems of our own already.

Anyway, what's the ATF going to do, get a list of the owners of semiautomatic weapons and just knock on their doors like "Hey give us your guns, you can't own them anymore". I don't think that'll work so nicely

edit on 3-1-2011 by DontLegalizeDecriminalize because: Off topic

I'm not sure what US police forces have international jurisdiction. Are you suggesting military intervention into Mexico?

Another question, do you believe any change in US firearm laws are solely for the sake of Mexico's asking? I suspect the US government may have their own motives for this. If they can blame it on Mexico then so much the better.

Does anyone, including the ATF, really think the drug cartel has any problem getting weapons?

Hell, they ship drugs all over the world, and does no one think they can't ship in - firearms?

I think all graduates of Special Education schools are automatically given jobs at ATF.

Even the dropouts.

Originally posted by FarArcher
Does anyone, including the ATF, really think the drug cartel has any problem getting weapons?

Hell, they ship drugs all over the world, and does no one think they can't ship in - firearms?

I think all graduates of Special Education schools are automatically given jobs at ATF.

Even the dropouts.

dropouts go to the TSA

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Hell yeah I'm suggesting military intervention! Not an all out war with mexico because some sleezy dudes want to peddle some coke, but I think we should go down their and kick some cartel ass. If the mexican government won't get rid of the cartels, then common sense tells me that they're not going to magically disappear because we want them to. The police force in certain areas of mexico is literally nothing more than a hilarious joke, and maybe if we restore some order to those places illegal immigration will slow down some.

But I honestly see no connection to semi-automatic weapons sold in America, and Mexico. What's stopping them from buying weapons in their states and then crossing the border if they're going to cross it anyway?

Originally posted by solarstorm
Better idea.... Erect a 40 foot concrete border wall, for the sake of Mexico.

edit on 3-1-2011 by solarstorm because: because I decided to add a word. Thanks ATS for micromanaging my edits.

As a Mexican resident I have no problem with that. As a US citizen I suspect there are better solutions. First, require all social services to be given the recipient must prove they are in the US legally. The same with employment, Mexico requires employees prove they are citizens or residents that are authorized to work and engage in lucrative activities. Mexico currently has the computerized capabilities to track their workers so perhaps it is a short matter of time until the US can catch up technologically. A few may still slip through the cracks but at least the US can close some of the gaping holes.

To address the firearms issue, most of the problems have to do with the illicit drug trade of which the majority of this trade is marijuana. Ending pot prohibition would put an abrupt halt to most of this problem and put cartels out of business or at least make the remaining drug trade much more manageable.

I suppose you are convinced that the US's motives to change their firearm laws was because Mexico asked them very nicely to do so? Such polite people we are. Thank you for taking such a profound interest and agreeing to help us with this problem.

Originally posted by DontLegalizeDecriminalize
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

Hell yeah I'm suggesting military intervention! Not an all out war with mexico because some sleezy dudes want to peddle some coke, but I think we should go down their and kick some cartel ass. If the mexican government won't get rid of the cartels, then common sense tells me that they're not going to magically disappear because we want them to. The police force in certain areas of mexico is literally nothing more than a hilarious joke, and maybe if we restore some order to those places illegal immigration will slow down some.

But I honestly see no connection to semi-automatic weapons sold in America, and Mexico. What's stopping them from buying weapons in their states and then crossing the border if they're going to cross it anyway?

It may surprise you to know that many of the cartel "soldiers" consider themselves freedom fighters against the forces of the self-serving prohibition laws which many in their government and very likely many in the US as well take every advantage of exploiting and profiteering from. The average citizen is adversely effected by this prohibition but the highly placed in the movement on both sides benefit from it very well.

Prohibition is not likely to go away any time soon. Your security and freedom will vanish long before it.

reply to post by DontLegalizeDecriminalize


I miself can't point to direct evidence, but alot of the weapons the cartels have, well... you can't just purchase those at your local gun store, some may come from mexico's southern neighbors I hear, but the great majority of the hard to get kind of weapons have to come frome somewhere high up, and a regular US citizen can't exactly waltz into mexico with a cache of sophisticated weapons, hehe it's not a laughing matter but, it's bad when the criminals have better weapons than the police or the military. I have family in the military in mexico, and some talk about how they don't even have thye high powered weapons they've confiscated in fluke raids.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


You are exactly right, both sides are winners. The only losers are the regular everyday American and Mexican people.

Like the title of this threads suggests, ATF wants gun control... in the USA... because of Mexico, their reasons are entirely because of Mexico their good neighbor. Yes, I'm sure that's it.

reply to post by Majestic Lumen


Maybe the cartels have their own gun making factories. Its really not that impossible if you consider the insane amounts of money that the cartels have. What's stopping them from just setting up shop and making some of the most badass weapons on the planet? They have the money, and if anyone tries to stop them, I think we both know what happens to them.

I also don't have any evidence, but I've heard of and read several stories along the lines of CIA operatives selling drugs and weapons illegally. I think in one of them the witness was a teenage boy and he was killed because he witnessed a drug deal between the CIA and the cartels. Does this ring a bell for anyone else?

Originally posted by DontLegalizeDecriminalize
reply to post by Majestic Lumen

 

Maybe the cartels have their own gun making factories. Its really not that impossible if you consider the insane amounts of money that the cartels have. What's stopping them from just setting up shop and making some of the most badass weapons on the planet? They have the money, and if anyone tries to stop them, I think we both know what happens to them.

I also don't have any evidence, but I've heard of and read several stories along the lines of CIA operatives selling drugs and weapons illegally. I think in one of them the witness was a teenage boy and he was killed because he witnessed a drug deal between the CIA and the cartels. Does this ring a bell for anyone else?

What, the CIA being involved in the drug trade? For the purpose of funding black ops, funding insurgent forces, for a pretext to invade other countries? I'm sure the CIA would tell you that is not true if you asked them.

Colombia no longer has the big coc aine cartels after US military intervention. They've moved it closer to home, through Mexico. But coc aine is not as popular today as it was just a few years back.