Rendlesham Incident: A Test of Virtual Reality Projectors (Jacques Vallee)

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posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by spacevisitor
 


I am not burning you at the stake, this is just an online conversation. I just mentioned it because you stated that your point of view was based on reading most of the information about this case - however, a few of us have just offered "new" information about this that is worthy of attention. Again, it falls in line with information that Dr. Greer has shared in the book you have as an avatar.

I think you took my comment more seriously than I intended.




posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by corsair00
reply to post by spacevisitor
 


however, a few of us have just offered "new" information about this that is worthy of attention.


Therefore I am working myself on this moment thru your earlier post about that part of Vallee’s book.


Originally posted by corsair00

Again, it falls in line with information that Dr. Greer has shared in the book you have as an avatar.


Fill me in here if you want, because I have not read that book yet.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by corsair00
however, a few of us have just offered "new" information about this that is worthy of attention.


As I said above I was reading Vallee’s remarks you posted, are here some of my thoughts and opinion regarding some of his remarks.

Vallee;


A remarkable event took place in late December of 1980.
A strange object was seen on the ground by a security police group at a joint Royal Air Force/U.S. Air Force base in England called Woodbridge.

As a guard at Woodbridge Base, an American named Larry Warren said that he saw a UFO land in the forest. Dozens of other military men and a few civilians saw it, too.

The commanding officer allegedly came out and interacted with the three occupants of the craft.

There is no doubt, based on the documents in the affair, and on the very extensive investigation conducted by Jenny Randies, Dot Street, and Brenda Butler—and published in their book Sky Crash (London: Neville Spearman, 1984)—that an extraordinary event did take place that night.

But far from being an actual UFO, it may simply have marked another step in the deception.



The yellow remarks are important and notice that Vallee said, it may simply have marked another step in the deception.

It may, so its just his assumption, nothing more.



DELUSION OR DECEPTION?

The English investigators have presented convincing evidence that the various explanations offered to the public for the Bentwaters case— allegedly caused by the beam of a distant lighthouse and some bright stars—were utter rubbish.


I fully agree with Vallee here, because I also found the distant lighthouse explanation utter rubbish.


The mechanism of the cover-up seems to be consistent—moving extremely rapidly, the intelligence agencies sweep all the evidence and, if necessary, secure the key witnesses.
If word of the event leaks out, the normal military chain of command operates to keep any controversial document out of public hands.
If that fails, then the intelligence agencies go into a confusion mode characterized by three simultaneous interventions:

1. They trot out their team of debunkers (astronomers, skeptics or "rationalists") who seize upon any available explanation; the more absurd the better.

2. They "oversell" the UFO explanation, always emphasizing the extraterrestrial interpretation. For example, if an object has been seen on the ground, they will make sure the media give prominence to the wild-eyed witness or the local contactee cult member who will claim that he has received a message for mankind, so that the entire affair is quickly blown out of proportion.

3. They start leaking some correct information to the investigators but mix it with confusing elements regarding the date, the time, and the identity of the witnesses.

All these elements are demonstrably present in the Bentwaters case, and they can be found in other military cases as well.


I fully agree with Vallee’s first remarks and point 1 and 3 here, but not entirely with point 2, because I have the impression that “they” do not always "oversell" the UFO explanation by emphasizing the extraterrestrial interpretation.
I have the impression that they do precisely the opposite.


To me the most plausible theory is that the U.S. military has developed a device or a collection of devices that look like flying saucers, that they are primarily intended for psychological warfare, and that they are being actively tested on military personnel.


I fully agree with Vallee here, that the “U.S. military” has developed a collection of devices that look like flying saucers, which if I am correct are called ARV’s.
However, I do not believe that such in fact extremely secret devices were/are in the hands or in control of the regular “U.S. military” but in the hands or in control of a once in time separated extremely secret department of the military.

So because of that and the witness testimonies about that triangular object and that second object with beings in and around it, I do not believe that those extremely secret devices could have been used for that by Vallee asumed psychological warfare over there.

And then this, do you really think that “they” would have been so utterly stupid to go playing around with some sort of psychological warfare in that wooded area, so therefore fooling around with so many military men during two or three days while they had a large stockpile of nuclear weapons at the base?

I simply do not buy that.

And then the following, it’s claimed by the witnesses that the sighting of that second object with those beings was filmed, so if it was all nothing more then what Vallee think it was, why would they not have debunked it all away by simply showing these films years later?

Or was it that they could not have done that, and never ever will do that, because it would have undisputable confirmed the story told by all these witnesses?

So I still stick to my opinion, those men were definitely involved with something that was not of this Earth, whether it originated from another planet/space or another dimension.
edit on 9/1/11 by spacevisitor because: Made some corrections and did some adding



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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I've been reading and enjoying all the comments pro & con. So much so, that I've actually been giving the case a good look-see.

For reasons that I can't remember now, I had initially disregarded the Rendlesham case as too inconclusive to spend much time on. After this OP and delving deeper, including Chap. 6 of Dr. Vallee's book, I am certainly of the opinion that it wasn't a case of E.T. contact...and probably not a psy-ops experiment either. As much as I love Jacques and his contributions to our 'cause' I feel that at the time of this particular bit of writing, his research and understanding of the case seems rather shoddy.

I was an M.P. on an Army base (S. Korea) at the same timeframe as the Rendlesham incident. It was from this stand-point that I found the initial reports by Penniston, Burroughs, and Cabansag to be the first and foremost starting point for trying to come to an opinion.

Those reports can be found here.

There is a big 'IF' for me however; IF Larry Warren was an actual witness to the events, then the 'Psy-Op Hypothesis' continues to have legs...and an IDH component as well!

If Warren was just a wanna be with a fictionalized tale, then the initial reports, the inconsistencies of the major players stories (Halt, Penniston, Burroughs) the subsequent hypnotic regressions of Penniston & Burroughs, and the ever-changing stories told by these three leave the case with little to stand on after all.

I don't like professional (serial) debunkers, but they may have got it right on this one.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT
If Warren was just a wanna be with a fictionalized tale, then the initial reports, the inconsistencies of the major players stories (Halt, Penniston, Burroughs) the subsequent hypnotic regressions of Penniston & Burroughs, and the ever-changing stories told by these three leave the case with little to stand on after all.

I don't like professional (serial) debunkers, but they may have got it right on this one.


Well, I think that the professional (serial) debunkers do nothing more than their job, just as you do yours.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 07:42 PM
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Anything as mind-boggling as this case must be very close to "the real thing" - so to speak.

The entire UFO phenomenon itself seems to have at its core a function to inject uncertainty into the the world at large. Something that defies physics and logic but seems to oversee historic events. Certainly a very good thing when it comes to issues of nuclear destruction. I paid very close attention to the work of Robert Hastings and his recent press conference. I think the UFO/nuclear connection is very strong and profound - in ways we can barely imagine. A nuclear detonation probably rips through other dimensions. It was this initial atomic activity in New Mexico that must have alerted some higher intelligence - whether it be an alternate human time-line or an elite group with advanced technology that desperately needs to steer the course of humanity in a better direction in the best way they know how...

edit on 9-1-2011 by corsair00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by corsair00
 


The 'nuclear' associations & aspects as possible causation in relation to ufos is definitely interesting and a worthwhile study. However, after reading the following article I'm a little more wary of the various assertions. See how it hits you.

DID UFOS DISABLE MINUTEMAN MISSILES AT MALMSTROM AFB IN 1967?



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by spacevisitor
 




Great analysis. I think it's entirely fair. I should mention that it was only until this OP that I found out that Vallee had any specific thoughts on Rendlesham - let alone thoughts of such things as virtual reality projectors. It also reminded me that I have a lot of his ebooks in my archive and forced me to look into them more. I have now also read his book FastWalkers - or more precisely listened to the audiobook. It was his first fictional story that many have suggested contains a lot of truth that he knows but could only leak out in the disguise of a novel. There are MANY intriguing details in the story. I also know that at one point Dr. Hynek was a paid debunker of UFOs but had a large understanding of it behind the scenes. Such is the case with Vallee at this time. I think he too has been bought out and has to play certain games involving real information and disinformation. There too lies a psychological trick - but I think he is in on the punch line.

The essential premise of the FastWalker story is that there is an elite shadow government called Al-Intel that becomes in possession of a real legitimate FastWalker - that the genuine ETs allowed to give over for educational purposes. And that this group has a top secret facility in the side of a mountain in Nevada - not to mention dozens of "high-tech secure vaults near all major metropolitan areas - working under cover of the continuation of government program of the Federal Emergency Management Agency". Because there was some mess over the obtaining the craft and a few witnesses, they have to decide on how to handle the story publicly. Full disclosure, partial truth and disinfo or complete denial etc. They choose to leak their version of part of the true story by strategically leaking it to a specific journalist and by using phony alien abductees and Intelligence-controlled alien prophets, and a whistleblower who worked on the Star Wars Defense Initiative, to bring together this huge story. Also in the Al-Intel arsenal is high-powered holographic laser technology to simulate UFO anomalies, as well as anti-gravity craft and humans dressed as grey aliens with medical equipment that can give people lobotomies and implanted or false memories.

Their major plan in the end is to use the real FastWalker to show to the world eventually - and have a militaristic strategy in place to deal with the potential uproars in certain regions of the world. This would include an order to dismantle all nuclear weapons facilities and to implement Martial Law and to temporarily take away the "basic rights" of citizens. They have used real and fake alien technology for a few decades throughout the world to gain more power and to move the course of human history in a specific way. There is a strange incident - that may or may not be fictional - brought up in this story of Jacques Vallee's that states that Ronald Reagan had a private meeting with Gorbachev in the former Soviet Union warning about a massive display of power related to UFOs and aliens that persuaded and forced an entire sequence of events; including the ending of the communist regime and the eventual collapse of the Berlin wall etc etc. But all of this behind-the-scenes activity is shown to be entirely human created - the real ETs always remain enigmatic and are just seen as amazing craft and sometimes shot down.

The parts of Steven Greer's Hidden Truth-Forbidden Knowledge book that are most interesting talk about the advanced technologies by a covert group and the use of phony alien abductions on specific people to control the power structures. Colonel John Alexander and his "non-lethal weapons" are brought up. Radionic transfers of cancer and even "astral body extractions" are discussed - the latter being used for MILABS events to convince people of an alien abduction. Hoarded and suppressed electro-gravitic technology is also used for simulating alien events. I might end up scanning this book to make as an ebook. You will not be able to find this at your local book store and it is quite explosive.
edit on 9-1-2011 by corsair00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by corsair00
 


Yeah, I'm gonna have to read FastWalkers. If he is mixing truth with the fiction, then the following exchange from Mirage Men between Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green of The Aviary infamy may shed some further light on things:


Dr Christopher 'Kit' Green - "In a country that has a large, educated population there is a large subset of individuals who suffer from what's called paraphrenia. Paraphrenia is a form of mental illness that doesn't interfere with your everyday life. It means that you can have a delusion and not be crazy, a delusion that you can confine and control. Many of us have one corner of the mind that is delusional - I bet you that I do.

'I might, for example, be religious - I'm an Episcopalian, though as such, I am protected from diagnosis, as are all the UFO buffs, because a large social structure of shared beliefs, like a religion, cannot be a delusion. So all those people who believe that they are being beamed at by the government can no longer be diagnosed as crazy - there are just too many of them.

'But, if there is a condition that is threatening to the social structure - like the idea that the aliens are here and they are taking our babies, or that God hates people of a certain creed or colour - and if people who believe in that kind of delusion band together, they can end up encouraging each other to get a lot sicker, or they strap on belts and make themselves human bombs. So we have to know how to deal with these people and how to prevent them from being dangerous to others.

'This applies to the UFO problem. If something really strange in the area of UFOs is true, then what do we do about conveying that information to the public? First we consider what may be the basic facts: maybe there are civilised lifeforms elsewhere in the universe; maybe they visited us in their spaceships a couple of times and then went back home; perhaps they left a vehicle or some technology behind and we've spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out how to use it. And there may be people in the government who believe that this did happen, and believe that the information needs to be public knowledge, because perhaps someone outside of the government will be able to make sense of their technology. But there's another group of people in power who say, "No, it will make them sick to know all this, we can't let the story out, it's too dangerous." '

John and I glanced at each other. My mouth was dry. I felt the temperature drop. Or was it rising? I wasn't sure. Things were getting strange again. Did Kit just tell us that these things happened? Was that a hypothetical scenario he had just presented us with, or one that he believed to be real? Kit continued.

'So, what do we do? There are studies on both sides of the problem. Some show that people will go crazy and jump of bridges when they're presented with this information. Others, however, say that if you don't want them to go crazy, what you do is systematically desensitize their fears.

'If you are a psychiatrist with a patient you can do that in a very methodical way. If you are a sociologist working with a group of students at a university you can do this in a very structured and experimental way. But if you are a government with a population it's a lot more complicated. Sure, there are those who are just going to shrug and say, "I always knew the aliens were real, it's no big deal." But you also know that some of them are nuttier than a fruitcake and could cause a lot of trouble. So we have to ask ourselves how we can tell people what they deserve to know and, maybe, what they need to know?

'The way to do it is to construct a framework whereby they can parse out the things that they've heard that are not true, and you whittle it down to a manageable story. A story like this: "There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '

Oh god, he just did it again. I tried to slow my breathing to prevent the giddiness from becoming a full-on panic attack.

Kit carried on, oblivious to my inner struggle. I was glad not to be inside one of his MRI machines.

'How do you tell people that story? If it's true?' he added, almost parenthetically.

"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."

Source: 'Mirage Men' by Mark Pilkington - Constable 2010.
www.amazon.com...



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Just found this through some links in another thread here

It seems kind of relevant with good research and has entries from Jaques Vallee's diaries from the 70s.


Rick Doty:

"Kit is also a close and long-standing friend of Rick Doty, who he talked about with unguarded warmth and respect, though he was forced to admit that sometimes Rick's actions could be both puzzling and frustrating." (p.278.)

"We talked about the use of quiet helicopters 'disguised' as UFOs to probe security and nuclear installations. 'I'm pretty sure that it happened' said Kit, following up by hinting that he may have met a man who claimed to have flown similar missions." (p.278.)
ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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He, he, to use me his word, the "incommensurability" of the real UFO problem
with his speculations, anyway there are people who think in the right direction.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Thanks for sharing that link to Green's... revelation. It is very interesting and I think there is definitely truth to what he said about the final disclosure bringing an end to the hyped up nonsense and UFO hysteria. I am very interested in knowing what course of action this upper level group is going to take - positive or negative, benevolent or malevolent? I think "The Day the Earth Stood Still" approach is best myself.

By the way, I tried twice to archive my copy of the FastWalker audiobook on megaupload. Perhaps they have a new policy of not allowing .zip archives on the site. So I will try just the mp3 again. It's an entertaining and thought-provoking 3 hour audiobook.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:35 AM
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Someone is trying to shove in a new movie here, isn't it that well-worn
from one another forum with all the monkeys from the AVIARY.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by corsair00
 


Thanks for your interesting reply,


I must keep it short now, but I did notice that we share quite some views here.

During searching for that book Fastwalker, I just stumbled on this pdf, so I did not read it yet, but it could be an interesting read.


4/6/05,10:08 PM, p.1 of 9 Analysis by Jack Sarfatti of the real UFO physics implied in
Jacques Vallee’s “Fastwalker” written with Tracy Torme.


www.zpenergy.com...

Thanks also for filling me in about Greer's book, I really appreciate it.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 03:53 AM
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It is left only here someone to advertise the Sarfatti's "Destiny Matrix 2012".



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by spacevisitor
 


A very good find! I don't know very much about Sarfatti - but I did definitely download this pdf awhile back and included it in a torrent alongside the mp3 for the audiobook and an interview with Vallee. I do a lot of torrenting on the ConCen tracker - and The Pirate Bay.

There are many intriguing insights into UFO propulsion in this pdf. I will have to re-read it again at some point. Now that I am on a Vallee kick. Sarfatti refers to the FastWalker book as "science-faction".
edit on 10-1-2011 by corsair00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by realitydiscovered
Someone is trying to shove in a new movie here, isn't it that well-worn
from one another forum with all the monkeys from the AVIARY.


Yeah, I hear you, but if the question here is Jacques Vallee's hypothesis of a possible psy-ops script being run on soldiers charged with guarding a base that houses nukes, then at least one o' the Aviary birds crosses path on the subject as noted with this quote:


"We talked about the use of quiet helicopters 'disguised' as UFOs to probe security and nuclear installations. 'I'm pretty sure that it happened' said Kit, following up by hinting that he may have met a man who claimed to have flown similar missions." (p.278.)
ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...


As far as Sarfatti: He's a big goofy kid with a big mouth. Playful, hyper-intelligent and all that, but I'm not sure anyone would tell him much. I'd be glad to be proved wrong on that.
edit on 10-1-2011 by The GUT because: clarification



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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I wouldn’t believe in the Aviary birds having already some experience with them
and made some analyses due to it.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by realitydiscovered
I wouldn’t believe in the Aviary birds having already some experience with them
and made some analyses due to it.


Hi! You've replied twice now and I'm kind of confused as to where your coming from. Welcome to the conversation for sure. Could you elaborate on your viewpoint here. Thank you.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Well, as I mentioned in the beginning here I was winniethepooh4102 on OMF, where
the Aviary is well presented and I had some adventures there, but I'm not used to
discuss the old forums. I was banned for 3 days from that forum due to the TR-3B
affair and getting bored of everything there decided to leave it and to take a part
here where I had already an account. Trying to explain at least for me the lack of
whatever interest in the real ufology to be shown on the forum from the members
presenting this group I understood that they are the bugs circulating between the
real ufologists and the intelligent services. Sarfatti with his stardrive.org is somehow
connected with them. If you are more interested you can find some materials on
realityuncovered.net and am###################. They use some pumped phraseology to present
themselves as very intelligent and in the know persons but they don't know anything
more than the common people. The secret of our existence and "their" presence is
still a secret. I took a part on some Russian forums because I know Russian too,
the situation there is the same and the bugs are similar. But the real ufologists in
Russia know much more than their Western colleagues because the ufology there
is not so commercialised. As a whole only a few people in the world are engaged
in the real ufology.





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