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perpetual motion

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posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:00 PM
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i have this design for a perpetual motion machine (i know that it is suppossed to be imposible but to my knowledge it works)

so i have a few questions about perpetual motion machines:

are the parts alowed to break down over time? if they do does that negate the machine as a perpetual motion machine?

can anybody here help me with AUTO CAD deigns for the machine? because i want to get it pattented and such

is any one there an engineer or machinest because i need to know a question regarding cranks and such just fine details

-Graham

p.s right now my idea is raw, but in comparison the steam engine when it was first designed gave out less enrgy than it took in




posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:10 PM
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All I have to say on this is to quote Homer Simpson
"In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics"



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:12 PM
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i had a design for a perpetual motion machine once years ago. but it was rejected because it had to be started first.. sounds sick to me.....



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:16 PM
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i thought you were allowed to start your perpetual motion machine, i'll just strap on a solar panel or something lol



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:25 PM
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This sounds interesting. I'm wondering how you did it unless you somehow managed to get your moving parts not to touch, like with a magnetic field or something... If, and when you get it patented I'd like to see designs for it.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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yeah magnets are essentially the biggest part, the things that make the machine go round i guess lol



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by junior_smith
i thought you were allowed to start your perpetual motion machine, i'll just strap on a solar panel or something lol


"perpetum mobile"
aparently not! it was my science teacher who told me this. i don't remember anymore what the design was like. but i am sure it was a true and working perpetual motion machine. (i also had designs for an antigrav engine, using the earths and other astronomical bodies as source. don't remember that design either. i am starting to believe that my memory has been tampered with somehow. in the latter years my memory has degrading more and more. aah, well if "you" don't believe me, just ignore my remarks. (and i am not talking about the "ignore" button
)

[edit on 7-7-2004 by darkspace]



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:32 PM
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So does your perpetual motion machine (PMM for short) generate power or just go around forever?

Magnets are wonderful things.


What does the ignore button do anyway?


[edit on 7/7/04 by NothingMakesSense]


XL5

posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:38 PM
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I am an electrical eng and have good mechanical understanding. I also believe in free energy, it can be powered to start it and it has to at last longer then any energy storage device in it. For example, the bulb in a flashlight should last longer then the batteries OR make 10Watts and last 10 years, 100watts and last 8 years, make 10000watts (10KW) and last 1year.

What are the main principals that make it run forever- replusion, attraction, magnetic gating?

[edit on 7-7-2004 by XL5]



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:39 PM
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What are the main principals that make it run forever.

That's the thing. He doesn't want to tell you until he has a patent



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by NothingMakesSense
What does the ignore button do anyway?
[edit on 7/7/04 by NothingMakesSense]


it makes you see no more posts by the particular person you choose to ignore.
i tried it once, but no more. even if i don't like some posts, it gets wierd reading a thread with bits and pieces missing. i know this is off-topic but i wanted to give an answer.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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darkspace> appriciated. Yeah that would get kind of weird.


XL5

posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:50 PM
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Post edited, was posting when magnets was listed. LOL patents don't mean some one can't steal the design, it just means you have a legal right to sue before a certain amount of years go by. Also, patents are good if you already have a way of making lots in a short amount of time. Tooth paste and tooth brushes were patented, but are now made by every one, so you need to pump em out and fast before the time on the patent expire and others can copy it.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 07:55 PM
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XL5> I know that. I think patent life is like 17 years or something which is plenty of time for most things like computer chips etc and other fast moving markets. By the time the patent expires you product is useless anyway.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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does any one know how i can use a wheel or shaft to change a switch? i'm stuck on that part otherwise im making good process.

and off topic - whats the diff between copyright/trademark/patent

thx


XL5

posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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Hmm ok, I was thinking it was shorter for a patent, like 3 years or so.

If you are using a toggle switch with a smooth metal lever, then you can make a wood or plastic raceway.

Have a 1" thick wood or plastic wheel at least 4" in diameter and carve a path on the face that makes the switch turn on/off (or to different connections in the switch) at different parts of the wheel.

If its just on and off at a low current and voltage, then maybe use magnets and magnetic switch that turn on when a magnet passes by them. Then you can have the switch turn on/off very fast in any pattern you want.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 11:14 PM
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Wheel: easy. Use magnetic switches on the static portion (part that doesn't move). You can buy these switches at Radio Shack (house alarm switches). Then just rig up a simple SCR-based circuit. Since the switches are momentary (i.e. they only remain open while the magnet passes by), you will need to use the SCR's to do the actual switching of the circuit. The alarm switches are just used to keep from causing any physical drag, but you will want to find the smallest ones possible so you don't have alot of magnetic attraction to cause drag.

Self powering Magnet motors are not considered 'perpetual', apparently because magnets have a certain lifespan and need replacing or some crap like that (which would actually make PMM's nonexistent since EVERYTHING has a limited lifespan, be it ten years or a couple thousand trillion years).

Oh, and a solar panel would definitly kill the PMM, as it would be considered (I think) an external power source. If there is no light, it woun't start, right? BUT, I think if you have a rechargable battery that started it, remained in the system, and was recharged by the motion (converted static electricity?), then you would be OK. I have an idea for a true PMM that is purely mechanical... and if my calcs are correct, it will self start... I just gotta wait until my boss goes on vacation before I fire up the Gerber table router and make it


BTW, you can buy almost any type of cog, gear, pully, or whatnot that you need... just look online or go talk to a local machine shop and they can order you what you need. If you need parts made, talk to an 'all-around' sign shop, such as the one I work for. Some shops do injection molding, die-cutting, and have CNC machines (most likely some kind of CNC Table router such as the Gerber Dimension 200), and should be able to help you out with some of the parts.

Not sure about the AutoCad crap, myself... I can draw up perfectly good plans in Illustrator. AutoCad is a nightmare for ANYONE to work with, and mainly caters to plotter output. We get architectural drawings that are in AutoCad and we can't do a damned thing with them except convert them to a solid BMP or TIFF image and retrace them in Illustrator (sorry, engineers... I have alot of engineer friends who feel the same way as I do... including my boss.. it's just a fact... AutoCad sucks unless you are swapping files with other AutoCad users or outputting to a plotter).

*EDIT: Doh! Sry, XL5... we are talking about the same idea for the most part, lol... I think that using the mag-switches as an actuator and using the SCR's to actually do the switching (takes much less current to activate an SCR than a relay).

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Earthscum]


XL5

posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 11:47 PM
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No problem Earthscum. But SCRs can only turn on DC power and you need something to switch the DC off, otherwise the SCR stays on (AC will work though). I'd use mosfets, a 2n3055 transistor or a crappy 4 channel car amp, maybe even a copper circuit board and a 12V brush ground flat and etch the switch area and make a commutator.

I think its a good idea to find out how DC motors/DC brushless motors work and research other attempts at magnet motors that failed so you don't end up making something thats already made. Otherwise you could be refused at the patent office because there is a patent on what you made.



posted on Jul, 8 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by junior_smith
does any one know how i can use a wheel or shaft to change a switch? i'm stuck on that part otherwise im making good process.

and off topic - whats the diff between copyright/trademark/patent

thx


There is a magnetic switch called a Hall Effect switch , it just needs a change in magnetism to activate , it is very common and used in every day things like crankshafts in engines , A small notch is removed from a piece of spinning metal , and when the hall switch is "attracted less" (to simplify the whole shebang) , it activates other relays and such to help with feul injection and electronic timing .

I beleive they can be purchased at Radio shack .

[edit on 8-7-2004 by oddtodd]



posted on Jul, 8 2004 @ 12:30 AM
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Hall effect switches are freaking expensive compared to the simpler alarm switches... I'm VERY familiar with them by means of aoutomotive technology (how do ya think the cars that still use a distributor system work most of the time?)... a thought just occurred to me. If cost is NOT a problem, you may actually want to look into some automotive ignition parts for hall-effect components. There are some decent kits to upgrade older point breaker distributor systems to hall-effect systems:

Auto Meter Electric Speedometer Senders
Hall Effect Crank Trigger

And here's a decent magnetic triggering system that you may be able to modify:
Holley Crank Trigger Kits (Magnetic)

Also, if you do a Google (screw Google... use something like Dogpile or Metacrawler, lol... be different!), you can find other hall-effect components and all the info you need.

Oddtodd, thanks for reminding me of that. There are also light activated hall-effect switches out there as well, but those suckers are expensive.

Basically, imho, I'd go with automotive parts (you could even concievably use used parts from a junkyard as long as you get all the components from the same types of vehicles (for compatibility).)

[edit on 8-7-2004 by Earthscum]



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