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Atlantis in Bolivia

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posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Really cool site, lots of perceptive questions and attempts at answers. The creator also picks up on quite a few lesser-explored parts of the Atlantis story. One of the better Atlantis sites/theories I have seen, despite the decidedly unprofessional site design and information layout. Looking over the chart which was on page 4 of the website, some of the criteria are a bit of a stretch, but for the most part, it Bolivia and the Altiplano do seem to be a good match. Thanks for posting and linking!




posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Here is some info you may find intersting :

"Scientists theorize that the area ot Lake Titicaca was at one time at sea level, because of the profusion of fossilized marine life which can be found in the region. The area then lifted with the Andean upheaval and a basin was created which filled in to form the lake".

"As Boero Rojo stated, "the discovery of Aymara structures under the waters of Lake Titicaca could pose entirely new theses on the disappearance of an entire civilization, which, for some unknown reason, became submerged. The Tiahuanacans could have been victims of world-wide flood, their civilization all but wiped out when their homes and structures were covered with sea water".

www.thule.org...



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic Lumen
reply to post by Trueman
 


Cool, looking it up now!

By the way here's the link to the Evidence part/page
Evidence


I was checking that link, there are 2 photos from Arica, before and after the 1968 earthquake (and tsunami). I found it kind of misleading since the first photo (before earthquake), shows the north and the second (after earthquake), shows the south of Arica, not the same place. I know this because I've been in Arica dozens of times. The big hill or montain showed was always there, it's "EL Morro de Arica".



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Trueman
 


Cool, thanx for pointing that out, I would have never guessed, always good to have someone with first hand experience


Yeah, like I said earlier, I can't say I agree with the stuff on that page 100 per cent, mostly because I am not an expert, but alot of the stuff does seem to coincide, so thus far it's been a very interesting revisit, and like it was posted up above, the construction of the site is pretty low grade, but what's important is the available information and in the end deciding for ourselves what we can agree with.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by Majestic Lumen
 


No problem. Anyway, I'm convinced Aymara and Tiahuanco acient origins had a cultural connection with other culture overseas, they may had contact with Atlantis people before the biblical flood.

I've heard time ago, according to some legends, those megalith constructions where there before them.



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by Trueman
 


Yeah, I have also heard of structures that predate Aztecs, toltecs olmecs etc.. but it always gets brushed aside when it comes to talking about civilizations. Like The Aztec Avenue of the dead, alot of people say the Aztecs built it, but other sources say it was there before the Aztecs.

All in all, I believe it may be like you said, perhaps a collective of the Natives of the Americas. I mean the intellect was there, the constructuion, the metalurgy atleast for softer metals, reed boats, governance etc..

And it is strange that the natives migrated Northwards, atleast it seems that way. I actually have first hand accounts of Natives from Michigan that met up with Natives from Mexico, They told our group about the meeting with their Mexican counterparts, and the State of Michoacan in Mexico is the same name of Michigan, and how they were able to communicate since they spoke the same language. THey told a story of how their ancestors who were fishermen went in search of a new place to settle, so they went on a quest starting in Mexico, they released arrows straight into the air and whatever direction the wind would carry it they went in that direction until they settled in what we now know as Michigan. Northward migration straight from the Michigan people.

By the way, I atended a peyote ceremony, the Dakota tribe joined with a Nahuatl tribe and the chief combined the feathers of an American Bald eagle with a Mexican Eagle, It was a unique experience to say the least, it lasted all night, The chief asked who had never eaten Peyote and only me and 5 other people raised our hands so he came to us to choose first from the basket. And all this in Chicago's Pilsen Neighborhood! they kept making rounds with the peyote all night long!



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by Majestic Lumen
reply to post by Trueman
 


By the way, I atended a peyote ceremony, the Dakota tribe joined with a Nahuatl tribe and the chief combined the feathers of an American Bald eagle with a Mexican Eagle, It was a unique experience to say the least, it lasted all night, The chief asked who had never eaten Peyote and only me and 5 other people raised our hands so he came to us to choose first from the basket. And all this in Chicago's Pilsen Neighborhood! they kept making rounds with the peyote all night long!


Oh man !...that got to be one of the best moments of your life. Thanks for sharing.

I had the chance to visit a "Brujo" or Chaman in Peru, interesting experience too. They use substances to help them and you reach an alpha state real quick.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 06:34 AM
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Could be possible that Atlantis is frozen under the Antarctica and was therefore 'sunk' during a pole shift and hasn't been discovered yet because we don't go under Antarctica too often and they recently discovered a frozen forest under there so it must have been inhabitable at some point? Or even under the Sahara because no one really checks under the sand in the middle of a desert.



posted on Jan, 5 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by ragsntatters
Could be possible that Atlantis is frozen under the Antarctica and was therefore 'sunk' during a pole shift and hasn't been discovered yet because we don't go under Antarctica too often and they recently discovered a frozen forest under there so it must have been inhabitable at some point? Or even under the Sahara because no one really checks under the sand in the middle of a desert.


I certainly believe they were comercialy developed, with many routes around the world and links to other less developed areas. With time, they could conquer the rest of the world. Remember in those days, the Incas, Mayas, Aztecs, Greeks, Romans and Egipcians didn't exist yet, All these cultures might had the same atlantis roots, lost in time.

A legend says Tiahunaco people confessed they didn't built those cities, they were there before them and were built by "giants".

Egipcians in a later period of their culture, were building pyramids without knowing the real purpose of the structures.

Of course, it's just my opinion and it's based in things I had read and places I visited but mostly in common sense.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Majestic Lumen
 

Hello Majestic Lumen,

You may wish to review this alternate theory. It also posits the continent of South America as possibly Atlantis, but locates the rectangular plain and the capital city in a location better suited for a major seafaring power as opposed to the isolated inaccessible heights of the Andes Mountains.

[size=4pt]Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars

You may also find these brief companion articles of interest as well:

[size=4pt]Atlantis: The Continent That Solon Sank
Provides a far better reasoned explanation for Plato/Solon's reference to a 'surrounding land' or continent lying opposite a chain of islands reconciled within the context of the period and contemporary belief. It also addresses Solon's worldview which ultimately led to his assumption that the entire island continent sank as opposed to merely the island city.

“The island [Atlantis/South America] was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands [the Caribbean Islands], and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent [North America] which surrounded the true ocean; this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. In this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island [Atlantis/South America] and several others [the Caribbean Islands], and over parts of the continent [North America]." (Timaeus, Benjamin Jowett translation)




[size=4pt]The Walls Of Atlantis
Jim Allen attempts to dismiss my posited site for the capital city in the Parana Delta by adhering to a popular misconception of an immense outer wall. This article is in response to that claim and provides the definitive layout for the multiple walls in and around the ringed capital city.




-Doug



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Perhaps the biggest problem with the Bolivian theory is my point above regarding how logistically unlikely it would be for an isolated city in the extreme heights of the Andes to be a major sea power let alone wield power over the Mediterranean and islands in the Atlantic.

According to the Atlantis account:

So it was ordained that each such leader [60,000 total] should provide for war...four sailors towards the manning of twelve hundred ships. Such then were the military dispositions of the royal City; and those of the other nine varied in various ways, which it would take a long time to tell. - Critias; translation by R.G. Bury

There were nine other key cities, but the royal city which is directly involved in the narrative and which Jim Allen believes lies on the Altiplano in the Andes, was charged with maintaining 1,200 triremes. There is no mistaking that Plato is describing seagoing war vessels here, as the 60,000 leaders he is referring to were responsible for supplying 4 sailors each, that would mean each ship carried a crew of 200 sailors, same as a Greek trireme. Keep in mind that Solon had adapted the account to fit a poem with some names translated to Greek. The ships may or may not have been triremes and the crew numbers may have been likewise adjusted or added by Solon to provide perspective to the intended Greek audience, but there is no doubt that Solon is claiming that the 1,200 ships were seaworthy as these are the only warships mentioned in an account detailing a great sea power wielding control over the Mediterranean.

But the inherent problem with Atlantis' royal city being located in the Andes is the fact that the account also relates that these triremes or seagoing vessels had access to and were docked in the city’s central harbor.


And besides the rest they had in the center of the large island [See image of the city in the previous post] a racecourse laid out for horses, which was a stade in width, while as to length, a strip which ran round the whole circumference was reserved for equestrian contests. And round about it, on this side and on that, were barracks for the greater part of the spearmen [Note]; but the guard-house of the more trusty [117d] of them was posted in the smaller circle, which was nearer the acropolis; while those who were the most trustworthy of all had dwellings granted to them within the acropolis round about the persons of the kings.

And the shipyards were full of triremes and all the tackling that belongs to triremes, and they were all amply equipped.

So why would a major sea power harbor up to 1,200 of its warships in a city in the Andes? And how were these large ships ported to and from the sea thousands of precipitous feet below and up to 100 miles away (on the Pacific side)? Imagine territories in the Atlantic and Mediterranean seeking aid from the king in the form of more ships. More ships and lives would be lost in porting the vessels down to the sea than would be lost in battle.

This is only one of many problems associated with the Bolivian site, but perhaps the most difficult to overcome.

-Doug



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Doug Fisher
 


I'm missing where it mentions the ships being in a central harbor. It talks of the track and equestrian events, and barracks, but not seeing it specifically state the ships are in the harbor (nor that the harbor could be below)...

Of course, the same old problem exists too, we simply don't know if Solon exaggerated to Plato, or Plato embellished...we have no way of knowing.

Still though, will be reading on some of the ideas presented above. I'm more in tune with the idea of South America being the continent of Atlantis, than I am with any particular location of the capital city. I still think the idea of South America trading with the Egyptians has merit (and even some proof), so an interesting topic however you put it.
edit on 11-1-2011 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 

Hello Gazrok,

In the passage quoted, Critias is in the midst of describing the city from the center island outward and is detailing the large ringed island where there are not only the track and the barracks, but also shipyards. The very next line makes it clear that the track, barracks, and shipyards existed in the 'abode of the kings' and then Critias transitions on to the large outer harbor:


And the shipyards were full of triremes and all the tackling that belongs to triremes, and they were all amply equipped.

Such then was the state of things round about the abode of the kings. And after crossing the three outer harbors...

Also making it reasonably clear that triremes were intended for the city's inner harbors is the following sentence which actually precedes the previous passage:


Moreover, through the circles of land, [115e] which divided those of sea, over against the bridges they opened out a channel leading FROM CIRCLE TO CIRCLE, large enough to give passage to a single trireme.

-Doug



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Doug Fisher
 

I'm more in tune with the idea of South America being the continent of Atlantis, than I am with any particular location of the capital city. I still think the idea of South America trading with the Egyptians has merit (and even some proof), so an interesting topic however you put it.
edit on 11-1-2011 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)

In full agreement. And I probably wouldn't be arguing against Jim's theory here, but I thought it was an important note and I am still on a mission to get to 20 posts so I can create my own threads. (19 and counting...)

-Doug



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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The last item I will address regarding the Bolivian site is the orientation of the sea, or Poopó Lake in the Atliplano Mountains. Plato's account places the sea on the south side of the plain, whereas Poopó Lake lies along the center of the proposed plain's eastern edge.

I will be posting more information detailing and explaining the intricate layout of Atlantis in a new thread sometime in the near future.

-Doug



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