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America isn't peaceful

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posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 04:14 AM
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Plato said it best..."As long as there are men, there will be wars."

As long as someone has what someone else wants, there will be fighting, there will be war.

As long as someone has something to gain through fighting and war, there will be fighting and war.

As long as someone thirsts for power, there will be war.

It's part of the human male condition. Some males can supress that condition better than others.

Sure people want everyone to hold hands and sing Kumbayaa. Odds are that won't happen until everyone on here and myself have long been worm food....if ever.




posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy

This statement makes it seem like Germany and their language is completely evil. It also purports the myth that we would 'all be speaking German' if we didn't engage in WWII.







Please- you know EXACTLY what I meant by my statement and it has absolutely nothing to do with the German language itself being "evil".
So the fact that the Axis was on a quest for global domination is just a "myth", huh?....



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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I was watching "2210 collapse" last night and it was about how future scientists and archeologists would interpret our time after our collapse... They talked about the roman empire and I found a few links to today's story.

The romans expanded their territory very quickly by conquest. They set their political system, culture, and way of life in those areas conquested. Then they exploited them militarily and financially.

The Americans has a military presence in over 100 countries today. The world has been "Americanized" with their fast food, fast service, and fast pace way of life.

The romans spent more money expanding their territory than the money that they would get back from those conquested places. Therefore, they were in more and more debt; not being able to fund social programs they had in place anymore.

The american debt is now at over 13 trillion $ from war and other bad choices... You can thank your governments for waging unnecessary wars which set up the country's collapse...

So in all, it confirms what I've known all along... THE US WILL FINALLY FALL...

It's about time!

Magnum



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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In my opinion I think its sad that America has not been out of war.Im going to start back from WWI that was dated from 1914-1918.Than right after that we have another war WWII 1939-1945.Then after that we have Korea 1950-1953. Then we have Vietnam from 1955-1975. A 20 year war.


I think when someone makes a comparison between the US and the rest of the world, you should always include WHY not only the US goes to war, but who it goes to war with, who helps and who is on the opposing side. Many of your war examples were started and fought by other countries who wanted US help.

Your statement that America is not peaceful is only halfway true. We cant be peaceful when the rest of the world isn't. We cannot be peaceful when other countries are unstable and fight amongst themselves and cannot be free to live without wars. Of course, some one sided knucklehead is going to say well quit starting wars, well, in rebuttal I say the same to them and everyone else. The world needs to get away from war period, and if the US needs to lead by example, I agree but I assure you, it will be a meaningless effort on our parts if everyone else doesn't do the same. We'll just get attacked for not getting into conflicts and blamed for doing nothing, It's always been that way.
edit on 3-1-2011 by Nephalim because: edited for context and typos/grammar



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


Many of the wars that the US got into had NOTHING to do with them; including the USSR/Afghan war. This is what brought terrorism to the world.

If the the US would not have stuck its nose where it didn't have business in, the world would be much more peaceful. Let the little ones fight over territory, and mind your own business... This creates stability...

If you are going to mention that we need to go and help people and stop war by waging war, then why isn't anyone in Darfour? Why didn't anyone stay in Somalia? East Timor?

It's all about $$$ and the spoils the wars return... There is no nobility in war.

Magnum



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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Frankly, your idealized iggnorance is annoying. America...the USA has been in far more wars than you mention.

Revolution, War of 1812, the Seminole Indian War, the War against the Chrokee, the Mexican War, more indian wars of 1840s-50s, don't forget our naval and marine attacks at Tripoli and against African pirates, then the bloody Kansas/Missourri border war and then the Civil War, then more ndian wars of the 1870s-80s and the waestward expansion, then the Spanish American War, WWI, the incursions into the Central American countries known as the banana Wars of the 1920s, then WWII, Korea, Bay of Pigs, our role in VietNam didn't start until the early 1960s prior to this it was a french war, then we have the cold War, more incursions into the MidEast...Lebanon, Granada, ElSalvadore/Columbia/Sandanistas...then Panama, then Iraq war I, more incursions into the middle east...Somalia, then Iraq War II, Afghanistan...and here we are.

Our entire history and culture came out of violence...it is a part of our culture, society, and who we are.

That aside, every country, EVERY country ...has a violent history and past. Hardly a generation has come along in Europe that did not see some form of warfare... same for Asia, Central America, South America, Africa...infact...unless my iggnorance serves me poorly...Australia is about as peace loving a nation and continent as there is....and even they have their dark periods of conquest of the Aborigines and their own defense in WWI and WWII.

Is history periods of peace broken by periods of war? Or is history periods of warfare broken by periods of peace?

Either way, the US has no monopoly on war and violence... and I never really thought of us as a peaceful nation.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by Magnum007
 


Your proving my point right and contradicting your own there aren't you magnum? I mean why was Russia invading Afganistan in the first place, was that ok? had Russia not done that we wouldnt be there now, if anyone created unstability in that region it was Russia. Secondly, Why isnt anyone in those other countries you mention? You're right there calling for an outside source to go into those countries and at the same time saying stay out of others business. Which do you want?

Its like I say, damned if we do, damned if we dont. If it were up to me, we wouldnt do anything anywhere and let the rest of the world duke it out, but that would be totally stupid to do, once your all done with each other, you'll come after us. That's just common sense.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


I'm not condoning the russian actions, I'm outlining the american ones.

Also, I was not calling for troops to be sent to those countries, I was just showing the double standard that the US and other countries have when deciding who to "liberate" and "democratize"...

Apparently, it has to do more with what the place has to be exploited than the people who are suffering...



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Nephalim
 


I'm not condoning the russian actions, I'm outlining the american ones.

Also, I was not calling for troops to be sent to those countries, I was just showing the double standard that the US and other countries have when deciding who to "liberate" and "democratize"...

Apparently, it has to do more with what the place has to be exploited than the people who are suffering...


Of course, you have to prove your point, Im just saying that it is flawed (no offense). To understand why the US are in Afganistan there is no way that you cannot outline Russian actions and the repercussions of them in order to focus on American actions now. It's too black and white and more black than white when it isnt that simple.

Know this at the very least, the American people don't want wars anywhere, on any continent. We just dont have much of a choice when conflict is everywhere we look. So sure, the rest of the world has to calm the hell down too. I'm with everyone else here, wars and conflict are not working out for people anywhere on the planet. If people want peace however, it cant just start in the US, everyone else is going to have to chip in and take a stand against all this greed and warlike mentality in all parts of the globe.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


I think I understand... lol... we are not talking about the same afghan war...

I'm talking about the CIA helping Bin Laden fight off the russians... If the US would not have done that, the russians would have simply pulled out, Bin Laden would have no reason to be angry at the US and then we wouldn't have terrorism we have now (assuming it was not internally planed/conspired to go this way)...



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Just to be clear, that although WW1 ran from 1914 to 1918 and WW2 ran from 1939 to 1945, the USA only entered WW1 in 1917 with troops deployed just before the War ended and WW2 in 1941.

You cite just a few conflicts, but perhaps this comprehensive listing will help. List of US conflicts from Wikipedia

Perhaps the statement “America isn’t peaceful” should be replaced with a question “what conflicts were initiated unilaterally by the US for reasons which could be construed as self-serving and imperialist”? The answer would be very few in modern times, if any.

On the Iraqi front... I know it is a subject that causes all sorts of consternation, but arguably Iraq is somewhat better off at the minute than it was under that charming chap Mr Hussein. The birth of the reformed Iraq has been rather painful admittedly, but if you were one of the millions of people directly affected by his nasty regime you may well take a more philosophical standpoint. Just a thought.

Regards



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Nephalim
 


I think I understand... lol... we are not talking about the same afghan war...

I'm talking about the CIA helping Bin Laden fight off the russians... If the US would not have done that, the russians would have simply pulled out, Bin Laden would have no reason to be angry at the US and then we wouldn't have terrorism we have now (assuming it was not internally planed/conspired to go this way)...



Yes your on the right track, one was a result of the other, so your half right. We are talking about the US going into afganistan now because russia invaded then. The cia was helping the local tribes to fend off the russians. When they stopped, those tribes were upset because they no longer got funding and military aid. By that time the russians left afganistan. My point is that those operations wouldnt have happened if russia had not invaded in the first place. It is a continuance and actually does give merit to the war on terrorism because certain members of those tribes became extremists and plotted hijackings and terrorists acts like bombings, not only in america but in other countries as well. Other countries governments can verify that, thats why you see cooperation. Conspiracy theorists can take that argument other places and paint different pictures, but the facts are there and many revealed because of their diggings.

Look back at several wars and conflicts the Us is involved with, even iraq and iran. They didnt start with 9/11, they go back to the reagan era and before, 9/11 was just the final straw.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by paraphi
Just to be clear, that although WW1 ran from 1914 to 1918 and WW2 ran from 1939 to 1945, the USA only entered WW1 in 1917 with troops deployed just before the War ended and WW2 in 1941.

You cite just a few conflicts, but perhaps this comprehensive listing will help. List of US conflicts from Wikipedia

Perhaps the statement “America isn’t peaceful” should be replaced with a question “what conflicts were initiated unilaterally by the US for reasons which could be construed as self-serving and imperialist”? The answer would be very few in modern times, if any.

On the Iraqi front... I know it is a subject that causes all sorts of consternation, but arguably Iraq is somewhat better off at the minute than it was under that charming chap Mr Hussein. The birth of the reformed Iraq has been rather painful admittedly, but if you were one of the millions of people directly affected by his nasty regime you may well take a more philosophical standpoint. Just a thought.

Regards


I think that when you talk about American history, you have to differentiate to pre-WWII and post WWII. After WWII, America was a different nation. The desires of the people started to be beaten down.

We call ourselves "the good guys" while blowing up women in children in Fallujah. I think that is the sentiment the OP is getting at.

Or we can split hairs about his historical accuracy.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


So why get involved in the first place when the russians invaded... If the US would have left it all alone and continued to deal with their own issues internally, then perhaps they wouldn't be collapsing today... I believe the collapse actually started in the 80's with the recession... The US never really recovered in my opinion, they only slightly did and gave the people the illusion that everything was ok...

As far as the first Gulf war is concerned... If the US would not have intervened, the natural balance would have prevailed. The only reason why the US went there was to secure oil in Kuwait from Bush Sr.'s friends... Would he had not been friends, or would there not have been oil there, the US would have done as they have in Africa (to name 1)...

It's repugnant...



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Nephalim
 


So why get involved in the first place when the russians invaded... If the US would have left it all alone and continued to deal with their own issues internally, then perhaps they wouldn't be collapsing today... I believe the collapse actually started in the 80's with the recession... The US never really recovered in my opinion, they only slightly did and gave the people the illusion that everything was ok...

As far as the first Gulf war is concerned... If the US would not have intervened, the natural balance would have prevailed. The only reason why the US went there was to secure oil in Kuwait from Bush Sr.'s friends... Would he had not been friends, or would there not have been oil there, the US would have done as they have in Africa (to name 1)...

It's repugnant...
Well there is a simple answer.America likes to get involved in everything they can't leave it alone.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Nephalim
 


So why get involved in the first place when the russians invaded... If the US would have left it all alone and continued to deal with their own issues internally, then perhaps they wouldn't be collapsing today... I believe the collapse actually started in the 80's with the recession... The US never really recovered in my opinion, they only slightly did and gave the people the illusion that everything was ok...


Well, I guess you'd have to ask the Afgani people and Government. The idea is when a major power invades your country and you really have no help, you ask for it. The US answered, not many back then could. It was a very dangerous time, not only for the US and Russia, but for the world. You have to keep in mind too that this was cold war era behavior, from the former Soviet Union not modern day Russia who now uses diplomacy and economics to their advantage as opposed to raw military strength. Anyway, if you notice, they left because they went broke, after they waged war in Afganistan and competed in an arms race with the US. The US boomed after that actually, a fairly stable and peaceful time followed. (aside from terrorist hijackings and bombings mind you)



As far as the first Gulf war is concerned... If the US would not have intervened, the natural balance would have prevailed. The only reason why the US went there was to secure oil in Kuwait from Bush Sr.'s friends... Would he had not been friends, or would there not have been oil there, the US would have done as they have in Africa (to name 1)...


The first gulf war was a clear ask from Kuwait, there is no natural order when your invaded.Natural order would have been ok with the Kuwaiti people, it obviously wasn't. We were right in that war, all week of it. The second war well, that's a bit more into politics and speculation than I'd rather go into here. One major reason was Saddam needed out, I don't think that was disputed by anyone but I digress. I don't think it would do any good to try and argue with flamers and people with one tracked minds lol there are just too many here and it's not worth the effort. Suffice to say we're leaving Iraq, and hopefully Afganistan soon and hopefully they're better off post war than they are now.

As for Africa, I don't think any one Government knows exactly where to start over there. It is very similar to Iraq and Afganistan on a much, much larger scale. Several tribal struggles for power go on and lots of issues are never ending. If it were up to me, id just aid in science, help them get infrastructure going, solar power, wind, clean water, lots more farming, less diamond mining ect ect. a council of sorts of the tribes leaders, but who knows. It would certainly take a global effort to help in Africa, it is just that dire.

edit on 3-1-2011 by Nephalim because: context and grammar



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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20th century We were continually threatened by an agressive global communism seeking to expand its influence ( the "iron curtain"of closed societies):

" we will bury you " Nikita Krushev.( at the U.N. no less).



Which was a big part of us getting into Afghanistan and fighting the soviets through a mujahadeen proxy. North /south vietnam; Central American dictators; the Cuban missile crisis. Nato Facing down the soviets across the fulda gap in Germany to protect europe.
communist north vs. freesouth korea.


( communism")
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posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Not just the US. Its a human condition.

That being said, take the world bank out of the equation, and most of these wars never happen.


l wished so much music could make a difference.


"was the enemy just your brother all along?"

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 4 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by Skippy1138
 


No I do not EXACTLY know what you mean. Your assumption that I can infer your meaning through an oft used saying that is used to justify the greatness of America during WWII only shows that you have not put real thought into the saying.

I have no doubt that Germany sought large control over Europe. I highly doubt they had plans or the capability to extend it to the United States or North America for that matter. They couldn't even conquer Russia, which was reachable by land (and helped by Mother Nature).



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by Skippy1138
 


It might be a myth.History is written by the winner. So we don't know the truth.



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