Detroit in ruins

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posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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This is sad. Detroit had the coolest # back in the day.




posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 



The "Asians" are building their cars and trucks in the US and Canada so sanctions wouldn't effect their sales here. It would only effect supply and drive up the prices. Sending customers to other foreign brands.
My Honda Pilot SUV was built in Alliston, Ontario Canada. And is of impeccable quality I might add.

The sad truth is that the American ideal of a motor vehicle , the most popular US vehicle being the Ford F-150 wouldn't do well in a place like Japan where roadways are very narrow and gasoline is above $5./gallon.

On a brighter note, GM sales of Chevrolet's and Buicks are doing very well in China. Up almost 30% to over 2.35 million units for 2010 which is great news for Detroit.

The unfortunate reality though is that there is very little likelihood of any of these revenues creating jobs back in Detroit.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by nh_ee
My Honda Pilot SUV was built in Alliston, Ontario Canada. And is of impeccable quality I might add.

Problem is the corporate profits go overseas, but I hear ya.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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Fallout: New Detroit?
this just shows how america is killing itself



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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That's pretty sad. I know my own hometown city isn't exactly thriving, but most of it is still holding on.

But in other news, Discovery channel doesn't need CGI to do a "Life after people" show if they film there. Or if somebody ever does a movie based on the Fallout series of videogames, they'll know where to go in order to find the perfect shoot location.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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I have been touring for 20 years and every time I hit Detroit, I cant help but think to myself, "Has anyone seen this"? Why have we not worked to help our own people first? Christ, it looks like a warzone. Although I will say that the area in front of the Holiday Inn on Washington was recently upgraded, but besides that?!! It's in shambles.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by moldy4
Fallout: New Detroit?
this just shows how america is killing itself


True, but if people want to help Detroit they need to help the people move out, and establish themselves in productive areas.

America killed itself long ago with allowing the elite industrialist to get away with lobbying the USG to sign free trade agreements, and enacting heavy handed environmental regulations.

Detroit is dead. GONE. It's especially sad to this poster because the City is on my birth certificate. I was born there in '69. The last time I see my birth place was in '86. The was during a time when there was a building boom. Developers wanted to buy whole sections up all around the central hub of Detroit. The money was there, the plans were beautiful. Baby boomers were in there 30's and inheriting money from their parents who were starting to pass on in ever increasing numbers, WWII generation, the wealthiest generation in history, so the demand was there. Start up micro companies and general small businesses were waiting in the wings along with plans to convert old factories to loft apartments, live in working artisan studios. Cafe's art galleries on the bottom floors. Row houses and luxury condos would replace all the brown zones. A few of the major developers met with some City officials, council members etc.The developers wanted to help the Detroit police by hiring an "eyes and ears" private security patrol who would be reporting crimes, not enforcing the law. One security personnel for every 1000 residence for the first 10 years within the redevelopment zones until the new revenues kicked in and pro law enforcement anti crime residence moved in and rooted themselves.

The City officials called such plans "a white invasion" The same type of diction used by whites when persecuted blacks where fleeing the south, and moving up to northern cities. Unfortunately there white persecutors moved up right along with them on the hillbilly highway to seek jobs in the auto factories, and they are the ones by the way who made Detroit so volatile that it eventually exploded into a race riot which create whit flight, and left Detroit in shambles because they took all their money with them.

And also called it a white plan to vote black politician out of office who were the very one's making these particular assertions, but this was not the main concern believe is or not. The main concern was with all the extra security measures the question was asked "How are OUR people suppose to rob these folks, and make a living supporting their drug habits if they are sitting in jail all the time?" " WE have to make a living too?" "Our City salaries don't even cover the driver for this stretch." (The meeting supposedly took place in a councilman's limo.) "How are you guess going to help us get along under the new arrangement of things?" The developers pulled out and developed north and west of the city instead. Miles out of the city. They couldn't afford the millions I guess that it was going to take to make up what would be lost to the government officials personally in drug money kickbacks.

There you have why that city is still in shambles. Plus the taxes are too high in Michigan. Businesses will move in overtime even building private schools and gated communities with private security if they can be guaranteed low incomes taxes rates for them and their employees. So to attract a well competent workforce. Most of the drug dealers are gone now. There is not enough left to steal and pawn for drugs anymore, and the suburbs are loaded with cops. And the judges in Oakland, Macomb and St. Clear counties for example had out lengthy sentences for theft and just a few rock of crack. So most of all the dopers have moved on years ago. The ones who didn't pass on. What's left are mostly single black mothers. The men join the military for the most part now a days never to return, and the girls who don't get pregnant before 18 do the same, and those with family support to take care of the babies if they up. Who is left behind are young single mothers, and their mothers and grandmothers. Most of the older men where whipped out with drugs, violence and AIDs. Those who are left behind mostly black females need a lifeline of escape for the sake of their babies. Then let the developers gentrify the place. Let the city councilmen of old just cry about the changes that then would come.

If enough people move out where the population is a 100.000 or so a Republican governor if one is ever elected again in the State of Michigan would probably go ahead and declare the City of Detroit a disaster zone discontinuing the City charter. The Dem at the Capital would throw a fit, but the executive order would be cast in stone nonetheless. I think the law reads that the City has to be declared a disaster area for at least two years something like that essentially condemning the City before the charter is automatically revoked. of course then emergency funding would have to be blocked. That takes legislation and so there would be the fight. Otherwise the City government would just rob the the emergency funds.

So the strategy would be a rescue of the population to move them to more productive areas through the country if need be. The ones who refuse to leave can then sit through the time period of condemning the City. When the developers come in their land will be expropriated. Saith the Supreme Court, so they will have to move anyway eventually.

Anyway that is the only way a new Detroit can be born. What is happening now is immoral, and abusive to children.

Notice I did not say re-born. That city is long since died many years ago. Along with a new city it should be renamed anyway. At least something like adding "City" to the end in naming it "Detroit City" to help shake off the old. I vote for Wayne City myself. Atlantis City I think would be the most cute, but that's what it is now. :-( Plus it sounds too much like Atlantic City.

On a final note:

It needs more cultural diversity............. money and educated diversity. Asians, East Indians, etc.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by LilDudeissocool
 


Your's is a most astute post. You have shone a light into the deepest crevices of "nitty-gritty-Detroit-City", lol. That's what we used to call it, lovingly might I add.


It is indeed ironic that in spite of the decay of Detroit and much of the rust belt on the Northern border, the Canadian side of the border is relatively prosperous. Canada wants to build a new bridge accross the Detroit river, an infrastucture project to support industry and trade. Michigan hasn't got the funds. They are so negative and backwards thinking that they are paralyzed and can't or won't act to save themselves. Canada even offered to pay for it, but Michigan still cowers like a sick and dying animal.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by LilDudeissocool
 


Your's is a most astute post. You have shone a light into the deepest crevices of "nitty-gritty-Detroit-City", lol. That's what we used to call it, lovingly might I add.



It is indeed ironic that in spite of the decay of Detroit and much of the rust belt on the Northern border, the Canadian side of the border is relatively prosperous. Canada wants to build a new bridge across the Detroit river, an infrastructure project to support industry and trade. Michigan hasn't got the funds. They are so negative and backwards thinking that they are paralyzed and can't or won't act to save themselves. Canada even offered to pay for it, but Michigan still cowers like a sick and dying animal.



I appreciate the praise, but I was able to say what I did only because I grew up in that area. I have no special insights in being able to understand the true grit of what are the underpinning of what is the root cause of the area's extremely dysfunctional conditions. Most people from the area would state basically the same thing in an honest way if they could remove their personal politics from the equation, and analyze what is wrong with that place objectively.

There is an in trenched philosophy of the old way of doing things there based on the way things were once in SE Michigan, which has always been control of the State Government btw. Which is bleeding off manufacturing money as much as possible, skimming it. The old way being that doing so is for creating and maintaining the most important things of all public sector jobs. And it means nothing to the political and bureaucratic officials there either that they have chance most of the good paying jobs away over the years. Their way of think is that they will get the revenue for such jobs either through taxing people who work or receiving Federal grants. So their are no real incentives to attract jobs to the area in the minds of the public servants. Their minds all operate on a level of thinking that focus on this equation, they need x amount of destitute people in order to have x amount of social workers. I know that's sounds cynically paranoid to suggest that it is all or at least in part permeated, but I think it is in the case of the Sate of Michigan.

I remember arguing with a high school teach one time who held what seemed to be a system bias about certain so called solutions for the issues that plagued Detroit. Joblessness and high unemployment was the focus. I suggested that cutting taxes would making Michigan more competitive. That for some examples the high energy costs that Detroit Edison was charging was a problem due to using coal fired plants to generate electricity along with unreasonable UAW demands. pointing out to him that they were asking, and getting at the time, too much for what they were doing relative to other place where labor and energy was much cheaper, and that Japan did not have such magnified issues to deal with building cars overseas. He then in reply said, we needed to tax imports more to even out the imbalances in advantages. I pointed out that the big three built cars in a global market, and competed with Japan on a global scale. That Michigan to at least hang onto what was left in the way of auto manufacturing jobs needed to work with the big three more in providing long-term special tax shelter incentives on the lines of what Ontario at the time just crossed the water. I pointed out to him that they were guaranteeing such incentives because they recognized that it was cheaper to let foreign based manufacturing companies build products on their soil providing employment than it was to have people unemployed thus becoming a burden on costly public systems.

The reply to that was basically, public employees need to work too, and then pointed out to me that I was speaking to one. Then it clicked in my head. There was a system in place to keep people uneducated and unemployed in the State of Michigan because it provided public servant jobs. The conversation later got heated and really bizarre when he stated something to the effect that, if they make a car in Tennessee (GM's Saturn was in the news at that time) it makes no difference if its built here in Michigan because Michigan will get federal tax money assistance to make up the difference. That tax revenues to create government jobs was all that was important essentially.

There you have it why my home state is so screwed up. You see, for all the reasons you pointed out such as, a new bridge will bring better accesses to trade, in the minds of the in trenched philosophy of old that type of improvement will only work towards attracting to the area "the wrong sorts of people." That's code for, people who might have a little bit of an earning capacity, people who at least earn enough money on their own to be 100% self sufficient, will be the types that are likely to notice the amount of taxes they are paying. Then they will in all likelihood decide to vote out of offices the cause of the high taxes they are paying, and demand that services be cut leading to public sector job losses. Second is always the concern to that particular mindset that people will be suffering due to such changes in direction of public policy measures. People who have been cultivated over the years to not value their own personal education thus not being able to obtain a condition of possessing marketable skills to become financially self sufficient. I believe they were forced into such circumstance, so they would be food for the bureaucrats and politicians who created their lifestyle circumstances to begin with. It's a domestic street level version of the same dynamic involved of such as made comical in the movie "Wag the Dog." When there is a drive to expand military might on the foreign policy level, and an equal competing force in place to increase social services one has to wonder due to how well balance the two forces are. Sort of like maintaining orbit through balancing between centrifugal forces, and the natural forces of gravity. The satirical comedy movie "Dragnet," the one with Tom Hanks in it, based its premise on that particular theory of suspicion. Is it funny? Yeah, if it's not true. The same flow of force is engaged it seems. Good and evil? A matter of perspective, or what side your bread is buttered on. Butter them both makes for a slippery piece of bread to say the least. But why have butter on bread to begin with? Because it taste good for a certain number of people? We are the cows who are being miked to make the butter because both sides are on our sucking our tits dry. The industry of WAR vs the industry of POVERTY is what I am apologizing here specifically. I'm simply putting it into terms of combining it as a whole unit, or single side/dimension, the WAR/POOR driver that creates public sector jobs which works the same either way it turns. My question is then because a wheel can only spin in two directions, why not use a ball that can spin in all directions. A new way, leaving behind the old way which is less than three dimensional. Where in such a flat world the only option is, one side creates conditions for the other to solve, and they play tennis back and forth using us all as the ball.

So I think what has happen in Detroit is simply a microcosm of a much larger dynamic in play. A type of flat thinking such as a social video game of "Pong." this is why I say it must be in part at least organized to some degree.

That's why I absolutely can not stand certain fraternities, large ones, elite ones, because that's a mechanism to coordinate conspiracies to victimized the public using the system of government in order to pull off their macro level crimes. I have no proof of this, it just appears there are such organized forces at work creating reasons to create public sector jobs, be they military related or providing social services in nature for the sole purpose of simply being. All based on either fear or poverty or a combination of both in an orbit around all of us. A Moon that bleeds off the energy that the Sun provides us to survive on our own otherwise. A single disgusting insane industry, system of order, if it's being maintained in premeditated ways for the sole purposes of simply existing for the sake of profiting off the vulnerable, the ignorant, all caused by a few who must live on the Moon because it's truly loony.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 04:57 AM
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I live less then 60 miles from Detroit and have never been there!

But the same thing is slowly happening in Toledo as well. My Dads workplace Textileather was closed 2 years ago and was bought out but Canada which then outsourced the work to China


abclocal.go.com.../local&id=6606729

I also heard that China is getting like 300,000 jobs just this one plant:
news.xinhuanet.com...

That is how many jobs the WHOLE USA gets in a MONTH!

So that is one reason why Detroit has some problems.
edit on 9-1-2011 by Dinoking because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-1-2011 by Dinoking because: ABC link didnt work just search for it




posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:31 AM
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We need our factories because they soak up a lot of people. Factories are businesses of mass employment. Fiancial services are not mass employers. No disrespect to factory workers I have been one myself, they also soak up the less academically able and also give them the old school dignity of honest work.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Dinoking
I live less then 60 miles from Detroit and have never been there!

But the same thing is slowly happening in Toledo as well. My Dads workplace Textileather was closed 2 years ago and was bought out but Canada which then outsourced the work to China


abclocal.go.com.../local&id=6606729

I also heard that China is getting like 300,000 jobs just this one plant:
news.xinhuanet.com...

That is how many jobs the WHOLE USA gets in a MONTH!

So that is one reason why Detroit has some problems.
edit on 9-1-2011 by Dinoking because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-1-2011 by Dinoking because: ABC link didnt work just search for it





There is a solution to fight back."Hoard Capital, Hoard Capital, and HOARD CAPITAL" Even if in means eating only one meal a day. Save it at your house. Sade dollar by dollar. Will inflation devalue that money overtime. Yes. But they can't do much right now because the FED can't really manure anymore to add liquidity to the market. If you keep money out of circulate right now, and enough people follow suit in will bring the FED to a screeching halt, and that would eventually all work to break the so called "Free Trade" agreement we have signed allowing us to be robbed of all our wealth. Because the elites in this country would be so desperate to get capital moving again they would most certainly begin to make products again 100% U.S. made so they could have once again market able products to entice people to begin once more parting with their cash. Plus during the time period this national no spending protest was going on, if enough people participated in such a nationwide "Home Hoard" capital protest where it dried up enough liquidity the money you have saved would grow in value reversing any losses in devaluation of your saving you suffered in the beginning. The value of money always grows in value when liquidity dries up without exception. Just keep that in mind. However it's near impossible to organizes such a national protest involving such practices of much personal sacrifice because the elites message all the time through their ownerships of their cable news companies, and other media holdings, "Spend to simulate the economy." Which really means send most of your capital to China where the same elites are in partnership with the Chinese government to make products they sell here that we buy taking more and more money over time out of the middle class capital system.

Can enough people counter the misinformation campaign that would be certainly be launched placing enough doubt in people's minds that thier national protest Home Hording capital was not effective or was hurting more than helping? I don't know. We have as it stands the misconception that the FED can simply print money. Well the truth of the matter is people have to barrow money for that dynamic to work. Can the FED lend money to the U.S. Government to get the capital moving again? To a certain point, but if everyone cutback to the bare bone on spending money in their daily lives, energy would decrease in value as less energy would be demanded in the marketplace. That means energy producers would have less capital to purchased CDs bank bonds in the 12 member banks dying up the Federal Reserve System's liquidity. Remember the FED is a system of private back that the USG hold an original 1/5 stake in. In it's operations assents, not deposits. The USG has not made a deposit in the FED system ever since its creation nearly a 100 years ago of it's original 1/5 share of seed capital to create the FED. If they simple but T Bills any unaccounted for capital in the way of FED deposits will work to devalue the money until it's worth nothing. That's why the FED can't just print money. The amount of money in flow is just an account measure all goods and services. That's raw materials conversions and service labor combined within a given period of x amount of exchanges that take place within the entire marketplace. less goods and services demanded less money going back to the original sources, raw martial/energy producers. less they can deposit into the FED a predominantly petro capital recycling bank. More people that hoard the more we take out of what they consider their system. Their wealth. And they consider all that you own theirs too. The idea is they are simply letting you use their money. Arrogant? YOU BET! They are. And they will lie lie lie to you through mass media to get all of recycled back through them because that's the mechanism that allows them to live extravagantly at the expense of all others.... on the planet, not just Americans. Printing money out of thin air is one of these lies, and the inflation tax lie that goes along with it.


This is why David Koch an oil man promotes tea party candidate like Ron Paul, to help promote the lie if you hoard capital and you don't put it in a bank for recirculation or spend it circulating it that way you will loss money in an "inflation tax" there is no such dynamic at play. We would have to have a nationally own banking system for that to happen where the Treasury Dpt. could simply print money. It's pretty much all part of Koch's disinformation campaign which financially benefits him. Same with hording precious metals. Now that's a controlled market! They want everyone to buy precious metals, and then flood the market one day with their stock piles of precious metals robbing everyone in the future as the prices tumble in a panic sell off. It's a boom bust cycle system of Robbery that no body ever seems to get even though the scam is perpetrated on the public time and again. The commercials that sell the scam to the public tell you than gold has never been worth zero and that it always traditionally increases in value. True in accounting value terms but never in any real economic profit terms. That's because the supply is regulated by just a few mining companies. And a few governments like Russia along with some "gold selling companies" I'm talking about the major ones who are more in the price manipulation business. They only sell x amount to the public to keep the price at x rate relative to the value of the average of all the petro currencies The Euro, the U.S. Dollar. etc.) So why would an oil man like Koch want to have people believe in an inflation tax and promote the idea to buy gold? Now that's how that all works and why.

Money on the other hand, as I touched on in the paragraph before last, is always relative to the whole value of what is circulating in the economy relative to x whole goods in the market place and most things in the economy are derived from oil which revenues make most of the deposits in the FED. ( How do I know that when there is no transparencies regarding deposits? You simply divided up all the wealth creation from raw material extractions and conversion into finished goods. Find out how much money in a product goes where. You will find if you do that most money in a product is derived from oil, conversion China and the rest of the far east. Manufacturing here around 10%. If you want to change that. Hoard Capital, Hoard Capital, HOARD CAPITAL.

If you got through this long seemingly digressive at time post I hope that the connection between what has happened to Detroit is related to an elaborate management system of money. That hording money, maybe, if enough people do it over time, and can tune out all the disinformation, can help to get manufacturing back on American soil again in a big way. Regarding Michigan specifically, it's simply going to have to compete tax policy and regulation wise with states like Texas who are extremely business friendly. If Michigan does not, it does not matter how many manufacturing jobs come back to America. Nobody is going to want to set up shop in a hostile to business State like Michigan when they can simply set up shop in a business friendly state some place else. Why? And this gets over looked a lot. You can today move ore around throughout the world relatively cheaply. Before it it was costly to do so. That factor alone built the steel, now the rust, belt. It will never hold that advantage again. That why wages could be bargained at high rates, and high income and sales taxes could be levied.

I know, a lot of text above. What can I say? Macro econ happens to be one my favorite subjects. :lol



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by tiger5
We need our factories because they soak up a lot of people. Factories are businesses of mass employment. Fiancial services are not mass employers. No disrespect to factory workers I have been one myself, they also soak up the less academically able and also give them the old school dignity of honest work.


Ditto!

And btw the above post was as much for you as it was for the poster I posted it to.



posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by LilDudeissocool
 


I really have enjoyed your posts. I am still digesting or mulling them over as frankly my political views are in transition. however thereis one flaw.

"Because the elites in this country would be so desperate to get capital moving again they would most certainly begin to make products again 100% U.S. made so they could have once again market able products to entice people to begin once more parting with their cash. "

As we have seen already the Elites are not patriotic they would either invest abroad, move abroad or do a mixture of both. The lobbyists would also be paid to lobby for foreign investments at knock down prices.

How say you?

Rgds

T
edit on 9-1-2011 by tiger5 because: typo



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by tiger5
reply to post by LilDudeissocool
 


I really have enjoyed your posts. I am still digesting or mulling them over as frankly my political views are in transition. however thereis one flaw.

"Because the elites in this country would be so desperate to get capital moving again they would most certainly begin to make products again 100% U.S. made so they could have once again market able products to entice people to begin once more parting with their cash. "

As we have seen already the Elites are not patriotic they would either invest abroad, move abroad or do a mixture of both. The lobbyists would also be paid to lobby for foreign investments at knock down prices.

How say you?

Rgds

T
edit on 9-1-2011 by tiger5 because: typo



The power of purchase is still with the consumer. What I am illuminating in that particular text is that if people are disciplined enough not to purchase any wants unless it is a 100% made in America item, I believe that special arrangements would be made to make those products available by the very folks who are partnered with China, and in doing so have exported our jobs. It goes to the subject of inelastic demand > www.businessdictionary.com... So to make a product marketable to such a consumer base who demand American made, and mean it, they would have to identify and recognize the cause of such demands, the root motivation, which would be where the product was made or how much the of the product was converted from it's raw material/s sources to a finished product designating what country's work force benefits in the exchange of labor for money. That would be U.S. manufacturing workers.


Some hidden factors to consider:

However the concern would be that this creates liquidity in the marketplace where elites in positions of manufacturing ownership power begin a slow march back to the way things were as you described incrementally just as they had done before. Only next time they might pour enough money into K. Street and information outlets to convince enough ignorant folks that such a system is xyz detrimental to America. We seen it before. We see it now. The messaging is, "Unions are bad." "Wal*Mart is good" "Health care is a want and not a need." etc etc. They could change the rules of consumer purchase using the same system of messaging. Using the old adage, "Once burned twice learned." After the elites had been forced to do things they did not want to do. Such as reversing the benefits they gained from so called "Free Trade" agreements they may have DC enact new safe guards. For instance, they could have the Federal Government issue a cash card only money system through the use of Federal legislation doing away with the U.S. Mint. Such a measure would endure that all money that citizens held would always remain in flow that was not being used at any give time. Just as they do after morning accounts are collected from businesses from the previous day's transactions. Physical money not in use after being recorded at the bank it all goes into an electronic overnight lending system. The idea of selling such a system would be, and I can just hear it plastered all over the news media. "And liquidity into the system, stimulate the economy, cash cards are the key to add billions that are locked away in phsycal cash in people's wallets." Fox and Friends" I am sure would be the first to push it on the air.

The reasoning would be this:

For example you get paid bimonthly through a direct deposit system. You cover expenses, by some stock, whatever, throughout the weeks. Maybe rolling a little over into the following week until you reach 5k, and then make a CD purchase with the accumulated savings that had been adding up in your direct deposit checking account. All the while the bank is using that capital. They can't do that with physical cash that you hold. However they lend away overnight ever dime held in direct deposit and debit cards, the new checking account system. All that money is kept in flow when you are not using the money in one giant account pool which is used for overnight lend throughout the entire world. Zip lines of credit" investment banking slang I guess for using OPM for quick borrowing capital to buy and sell investments paper investments on foreign exchanges that are in amounts of hundreds of million of dollars on a revolving account bases. Billions if it's a big bank like lets say Bank of America or Wells Fargo. Every dime that is not locked in a CD is floated around the world in an overnight lending system which many are not aware of. Btw, that's how they are able to offer free checking if you maintain a minimum deposit. If you have lots of cash maintained in a checking account they even pay a decent interest rate usually over five k though. That's when the bank teller slips you the CD brochure where you are informed you can get a better interest rate than keeping your money in a checking or ordinary savings account. And as I am sure you are aware of that savings/checking is another way of saying you have enough money to buy a CD, and the bank prefers that you do. Because that's where they make the real money at. A 5k CD means they can take out of the FED "Discount Window," depending on current FED policy, double that amount up to x whatever more the amount of the CD. It's been as high as 1/250. Mark to mark is the most sound policy though. The "real deposits" are. They always loans that are deposited in FED member banks to the FED.


What are "real deposits?" Most of what clears on the open market in the form of raw materials which are closed contracts, meaning it has been delivered to the purchaser and the purchaser has made full payment on the purchase. That occurs on the day that the contracts closes. Then funds received by the producer of the raw materials are immediately deposited electronically into the FED system ready and waiting at the "Discount Window" for banks throughout the country to purchase. Those deposits are huge bank bond purchases as I am sure you can well imagine. Now there is something else needed for this to all work. They need your CDs, a guarantee that you will keep your money in the bank for x amount of time to be used as a down payment for what they will be borrowing from the FED Discount Window. Long gone are the days when gold bullion was moved from volt to volt to guarantee accounts while manual accounting was performed. That's why accounting is a dying profession. Today in it's mostly just bookkeepers "data entry personnel" and computer terminals. This is because all the capital flows are pre arranged ahead of time based on percentages of money received from the raw material producers. How much of the contract revenue would automatically be received in the form of major bank bond purchases. That is when x amount of raw material contracts are negotiated for x amount the Federal Reserve System made up of 12 banks is notified to offer x amount in major bonds which are guaranteed to be purchased ahead of time. it's that organized. Now those raw materials will be converted into finished goods and there will be services attached all labor. And labor purchase what is made. A cycle plus labor retains certain amounts of the capital such as build a house for oneself, but the bank still wants that back so they sell home equity loans to get it back in to the system. All that is wealth, anything and everything that is desired by others, they want back into the system ASAP. The hand shake loans of old were fraternal loans. If a fraternal brother was a loan officer he new the bank held x amount of equity in notes that were more than half paid off. Then he would loan that equity to a fraternal brother. If the brother did not make good on the loan their were no assets to foreclose on. So it had to be a "square deal" under the radar of the bank examiners to a brother you could "trust." which simply mean other frat brothers would make the loan good if the recipient could not payback the loan. The FED put a stop to it years ago by making sure that such equity was used in providing consumer loans moneys. They wanted that extra revenue. they considered it leakage. So none equality loans wen by the wayside until the USG thought they would go into the loan guarantee biz, but there was no equity on paper at the banks. A hyper inflated hose note doesn't cut when the major depositors cry foul and "Hoard Capital." Then liquidity dries up, and the inflated values are then relieved as house flipping no longer can operate. Which a hyper inflated housing market depends on in order to keep real values hidden. The nitty gritty mention there of what caused the housing bubble to go POP. The important thing to note though is that all capital originates from raw material producers. And that the CDs you and I buy at our local bank are used in a fractional way as down payments for them to borrow at the FED's Discount Window. They use the new money they get from that window to loan out to their customers to purchasers of new items that have conversion values added to them which is the difference between the money loaned to the FED minus your CD, and the fraction in between should equal around what the conversion costs are in that new item. Because all those other values are already accounted for wealth in the economy. And so is the new money, which is "snowball" money that has been reinvested in the FED building over the years ever since the creation of the FED system. Where does the value come from, well can can just print value so it has to come from some place. Think of it this way it's shifted from depreciation to new values. As your car wears out you desire a new one. That's shifting value from the car you are driving to a new one which you don't own yet. You are the vehicle of the value shift. New money is placed in the economy ahead of time as the product is being made by the FED which is all recycled capital, The "snowball." The rest all starts at the close of a raw materials contract that such new values are then used used for purchasing major bank bonds. NEW MONEY The "snowball" is "RECYCLED MONEY." Which are actually NEW and RECYCLED VALUES. Timing and the accurate recordings of the amounts are everything in maintaining value in currency. Because value cannot be printed no more than cutting a pie into smaller and smaller pieces can make a larger pie. This is btw one of obvious proofs that the Ron Paul crowd is wrong. If their claims where correct we would have runaway inflation. The FED cannot and will not create money out of thin air because if they did the USD would have little value relative to its worth today. Where does the other part of NEW MONEY?VALUE come from? Major manufacturing investors, who also buy major bank bonds, many are major stockholders, and yes some of the biggest are major raw material producers like the Koch-s, but most are of the league in which their money, their wealth is much less consecrated. Do to the fact there are so many of those folks relative to the very few raw material/energy producers like the Koch-s. And manufacturing is far less profitable than extracting raw materials/energy out of the ground. Manufacturing add most of a value in most items produced, but most gross profits are lost by the owners to overhead which mainly ends up in the middle class, us. Well did, now China, and now the big boys in the manufacturing biz partnered with China are gaining ground in minimizing their losses by, like you already know, exporting jobs. But yet we keep spending like we had never lost any ground to them, and so the money keeps circulating around and around where they are able to catch more and more of it. That's one of the major accelerators of the ever increasing wealth gap in this country. We lose more and more wealth each year and we spend more each year because the credit is available to us to do so. New products make us high. it's a drug, and they know it. A addict will always be broke, but will always find away to get his or her drug, and they depend on that psychological fact in keeping us digging our own hole, a inescapable finical trap eventually where they will simply place a bamboo grating over top with a big rock over that. A permanent financial cage. Of course they will want the shovel back because that worth something. ;-)




With raw materials/energy they are not sensitive to supply changes during time the contracts are being guaranteed on the change. therefore they are sensitive to deviate much through supply and demand pressures in the during the time the insurance for the price of the contract is being bid one. (that's all an a commodities exchange is that's it's supposed sole purpose) That's why I personally think it's ridiculous to have delivery contracts for raw materials/energy bid on. What are that guaranteeing exactly? What are the risks involved specifically that would cause drastic changes in supply and demand while the contract is alive? Raw materials/energy are not commonly known to be risky to supply and demand changes in the short term like agricultural product for instance. Unless the Mid-East goes nuclear one day during bidding there is not going to be any supply changes that are different than the amounts specified in the contract on the delivery date. Or on the demand side either unless for instance all of a sudden everyone has a compulsion to drive their cars every waking hour. It's simply a mechanism to have a reason to squeeze customers, wholesalers, and then us. It's simply a price raising excuse mechanism so the producers cans say, to the wholesaler purchasing the contract, "Look at how much more the last contract closed at we want x more for the next contract."

Everyone involved knows it's a scam, but none of it is going to change at the top because those folks supplying the real deposits in the FED that everyone uses to deal them cash for their credit addiction, from the USG to the credit card loaded shopaholic at the mall. That's why we use our intel and military assets to protect them. We keep the oil sheiks in power under a royal system of order, and part of that deal is keeping the belief in Islam alive because that's central for the reasons the sheiks are in power. the most direct descendants of Mohammad have a divine right to rule. New power might do what Saddam did during his reign. So we put up with shack down of, "Look it closed at this much more last time therefore we want x more for the next contract." What's the wholesaler suppose to say, "You have the price driven up artificially through OPEC policy which is a cartel to regulate supply and thus price, and you guys are using off shore accounts "hedge funds" that are used to speculate on the N.Y. Merc?" They can't scream about it. Who are they going to complain to? The USG those dude's buy T's. The public? A good number of them think that if oil supplies were anymore that the planet will flood. And so the cycle is repeated with no way to break the strangle hold OPEC has over controlling the money supply because they own it all. Some none OPEC folks own a part of the money supply David Koch and his brother own more than any other American, but it pales in comparison to Oil Sheiks such as King Abdullah who is so wealth and none transparent that his wealth is immeasurable so Forbes does not even bother listing them on on the worlds most wealthiest. Where does most of the capital used to keep off shore accounts "hedge funds" flush to be used to bid up price on the Merc come from? Probably not Bill Gates or people down on his level. (He is a manufacture and service provider btw with low labor costs and why he has so much money, and he I am sure is able to by major bank bonds, but he is in a realm down below raw martial producers because they control the headwaters of "macro economy." That's why I say down below, or I should say down stream, because his kind are simply "paper billionaires." They are nothing without those who are up stream, they could not exist without them, and it's not a two way street. Everyone down stream is well documented on paper, and their wealth is calculated on paper, wealth in stocks, which is all junk. However bonds are golden, and very real. compare Bill gates now with the level of folks such as the mostly nontransparent Koch-s who have immeasurable wreath, well because most of what they have is non transparent, but what they have in transparency still puts them on the Forbes list I thing around # 14. But he is a true multi billionaire. A true FED depositors is who derives money from a source that is of original "hard value." Because his center piece business is oil production, and this is very important to note regarding the term "production." I'm talking specifically to the production that means "out of the ground" refining purchased oil is conversion, and there is a real difference just as i illuminated the difference between Gates and the Koch-s. The same application of defining the term between the two definitions of "production" are the same.

So now I will touch on the biggest version of the Koch-s, King Abduallah. Who is estimated to have trillions floating around the FED system in the form of U.S. Dollars (USDs) through Saudi Aramco which owns bonds invested in Federal Reserve member banks, and for every USD he owns is considered an IOU made out to him. (Btw every bond hold has this position of ownership. He just happens to own more than anyone else.) And that's what a Federal Reserve Note is, dollars that people think are theirs when they hold them in possession, and they are not. They are borrowed capital from people such as David Koch and King Abduallah, and you if you own at least one CD. The Ron Paul crowed claim the Notes are IOUs made out to the users by the FED. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Because IOUs are made out to the lender not the user of the capital. Glen Beck a few weeks ago just to mention had a pseudo economist trying to explain how that made sense. I laughed hysterically, but I do not laugh at the mass media disinformation campaign that attempts to sell it to the public the lie about what money is :where the value of it originates, and who owns it. Guess what? Glen is a David Koch mouth piece. David Koch, and his brother have a serious vested interest in keeping the right information a close guarded secret.


Now for the root of this whole matter. If you have the cash locked in a safe they can't use it. They can't keep it in "snowball." That's real power. It's power in keep capital the feel they own circulating. They need it to come back to them time and again to maintain their positions of ultimate power over all others through controlling the headwaters of economy. If you purchase less and less of what they pull out of the ground, it's that much less power they have over you and I. If you are not using the capital, and it's tucked away in a safe somewhere then no one else can use it either which means it can't comeback to them subtracting power they hold which is used to enslave us economically through debt, and our minds as they control media messaging, propaganda, which they use to lord over politicians, plus K. street which is used quite forcefully to remind politicians who holds the purse strings.

I say ask, why let them have the power? Lets take it away from them. Away from the people who are partnered with China bleeding the middle class dry. Lets bring manufacturing jobs home, and keep them this time by making sure we understand the power of "Hoarding Capital."

It's a game of keep away, monkey in the middle.They are playing it on us right now, so lets make them the monkey's for a change. I'm for one am sick and tired of having to eat bananas and slipping all over the place on the peals.
I guess those are green bananas we are all being forced to eat.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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Meanwhile Hiroshima and Nagasaki have developed into gorgeous cities. American policies are more deadly in the long term than atomic weapons!



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Mattyj
Meanwhile Hiroshima and Nagasaki have developed into gorgeous cities. American policies are more deadly in the long term than atomic weapons!


Excellent point!



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 02:16 AM
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I am very glad to see this thread. Yesterday i received an email Hiroshima 65 years after the bomb was dropped and on how Detroit looks now.

Let me say that the American government could have walked into Hiroshima and Nagasaki and turned those 2 cities into rubble just as Detroit looks now. Hiroshima is in a far far better state than Detroit and that is even after it was bombed to hell and and destroyed. 65 years after the bombs and it looks better than lots of major cities in the world.

Don't lets get on to the topic of radiation fallout and the effects on the environment for years to come, as that is another topic all on its own.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by Klassified
 


Where else in the states? Could you point me towards any online photography?

Urban decay as a photographic genre can be a visual drug.


Gary, Indiana is on par if not worse as far as the architectural desertion.

Being from SE Michigan, ten minutes from Detroit, I've been in most all areas of that city on many occasions, it's definitely about as rock bottom as a city can get right now. But the good news is, there is hope!

Hopefully some developers will take aim and modernize a lot of these abandoned old buildings. It can be fun to explore, no doubt about that. If anyone wants to experience desolation, drive to detroit without a map. You'll most likely end up lost in a place with few people, no signs and certainly no help.

I have a lot of hope for Detroit in the future. As someone mentioned, it can become the first ultra-advanced city.
What they need is a ton of tax money from the federal government (military is a great place to take this money from), and it needs massive infrastructure redevelopment and almost an entire economy.
If Detroit made it the goal of the city to be the greenest, most advanced city by those means, we could see some amazing things happen. I mean, the people of Detroit need work! They don't require much money either! If some factories for solar panels and algae and recycling plants took over for the abandoned ones, we would have a great start.
A train system would be excellent too.

If the 2012 new world prophecies are true, and the bad guys of the powers will fall and positivity will rise, then Detroit will be our greatest indicator and litmus test.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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