Detroit in ruins

Fascinating thread.

I don't have time to read it all, but put simply... are the American cities becoming like this due to the Government injecting all their funds into military and space projects? Rather than spending it on the infrastructure of major cities?

Or have i got it all wrong?

From a Detroit area resident: It does seem this whole issue at least on ATS...is one sided with evidence and proof showing only the worst.

Im really down on this place myself as well. But, if as much evidence was spent on the nice neighborhoods, and revitalized areas, and some of the more prosperous areas...I think it would be about even.

In Detroit's defense...a lot of time and evidence has been invested here to show the bad, but the entire city as a whole should be reflected here as well. I could go to any American city and ride around the worst parts, film it and show how bad they are.

Detroiters for the most part are a resilient bunch, and bounce back over and over. But with mis-appropriated school, housing, welfare and such funds by the former mayor and others...its hard to get a foot up. And true enough...some of the inner city and western sections of kids think it all theirs to tear up, have more kids, get on assistance and dont try for work to get out, because there are no jobs.

Im reminded of a question I was once asked when I said Im from Detroit. They replied "Youre from Detroit!? Wow! Where are your bullet holes!?"

Detroit is in a sad state for sure, and it may appear all is lost. By I think its just on hold for awhile. Give 'em a chance, they'll rebound.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

we didn't have any hundred dollar pairs of shoes that I know of when I was growing up, they were priced fairly reasonable. now that they are all made overseas, got to wonder...
why, oh why, is it that if it's cheaper to produce this stuff over there, like they claimed back when they started sending those jobs overseas, do we have nikes that cost over a hundred dollars? and well, it doesn't make sense in my book anyways, unless the resources you need are in the country you are producing them in and the US just doesn'tt have them available,, since you have to pay to have them shipped back to the consumers.

There's a big juice producer in NY State. There are, or should I say were, lots and lots of apple orchards also.
When my husbands was driving tuck he made a delivery to this company. what did he deliver?? tons of apple concentrate from some country overseas. He asked the guy who took the delivery why they were shipping it in from so far away, while there area was so saturated with apples. The answer....well, they get a perk from the gov't if part of what they produce if imported from certain countries....

The orchards, for the most part sit in a sorry state really, the buyers of all the apples, buying them from far away....and this just doesn't make sense does it?? And as far as the cost to harvest those apples, sorry, they were migrant workers and the kids!!! They weren't unionized, they weren't highly paid...they were migrants....
I have to ask, if the dollar falls to the point where those apples they are using overseas are far too expensive for the american economy, do you think it is gonna be possible to revitalize those orchards into a production again?
The migrant, the kids, they weren't unionized, they were minimum wage employees, and at the time, that was around three bucks an hour....no benefits, although the migrants were provided shacks to live in on the farm, and probably food, which, well, who know, they might had to pay for out of their pockets....ya, they were really asking for alot, weren't they? Too much for us americans to pay, right?? well, we I think we can expect to pay a heck of alot more in the times to come now, because, our dollar is gonna be shunned and our ability to produce has been greatly damaged!
The concept of a global economy does not make sense. It's like saying this family in a city can cook the potatoes for ten families, another will cook the roast, another will cook the carrots, and another will cook the peas, and still another will make the desert, and then we can all run around and deliver our potatoes or whatever to the nine other families, while they run all over heck delivering theirs, and well....when we are all done, we can all sit down to a cold dinner that may, or may not be cooked the way we want....it's more economical that way!!
no it isn't. It just makes us more dependent on everyone as we forget how to cook a roast, but know all too well how to cook potatoes!

Originally posted by aRogue
Fascinating thread.

I don't have time to read it all, but put simply... are the American cities becoming like this due to the Government injecting all their funds into military and space projects? Rather than spending it on the infrastructure of major cities?

Or have i got it all wrong?

edit on 5-1-2011 by aRogue because: (no reason given)

Quickly stated, Detroit and other such manufacturing centres were killed when their employment bases were shipped overseas. No corporate taxes, no property taxes...no future.

Aerospace and military make big bucks for their regions...but either way, Wall Street sucks up a mighty chunk.

Originally posted by dawnstar
why, oh why, is it that if it's cheaper to produce this stuff over there, like they claimed back when they started sending those jobs overseas, do we have nikes that cost over a hundred dollars?

Interesting choice of product...10 years ago you could land a pair of Nikes in Vancouver for $9...all in. They'd sell for over a hundred. Now who do you figure is picking up the difference?

There's a big juice producer in NY State...well, they get a perk from the gov't if part of what they produce if imported from certain countries....

And how do those Chinese get their fruit so cheap? Slave labour? Pesticides and herbicides forbidden here but applied indiscriminately and ignored by corrupt officials? Naw...never.

You can't blame unions for everything...and the only company that gets unionised deserves it. Happy employees who are treated fairly are not interested in paying dues. Denying unions is greasing a race to the bottom...Wall Street wins, and you and your neighbour are eating boiled potatoes.

Who's to blame? The government for allowing it to happen.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Detroit is in a sad state for sure, and it may appear all is lost. By I think its just on hold for awhile. Give 'em a chance, they'll rebound.

Thanks for your optimism. It's a very American trait, and one I admire in you as a people. Good luck, and a star for you.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


in the case of the apple orchards...the gov't promoted it!!!
and you bring up another interesting piece....our environmental laws...
are these companies really going there just for the cheaper (like you said...)slave labor, or are there other benefits? :Like the opportunity to dump their waste wherever and however they want? People should actually look at china, and india, and well, see the pictures of the crap, and ask themselves, do they really want to raise their kids in that kid of environment? because well, if we are willing to allow our wages to drop down to the slave wage level, the next thing that will go will be our right to not be poisoned with every breath or drink of water! I spent my childhood in the 60's and 70''s, before all the mess was cleaned up! One of my child play areas is now on the epa's superfund sites!! I am extremely sensitive to many chemicals, have health problems that I gave up on even seeing the doctors for because they have no answers, just more chemicals to throw into my body. I have to wonder.....did playing in that little creek have anything to do with it!
Does is have anything to due with all the new health problems our society faces now?
by sending the production overseas, where they can polute all they want, and buying those products that is produced, aren't we basically saying that we want our products, we want our products cheap, we don'[t want to put up with the crap that producing those products create, so, well, let's send the production as far away from us as we can, and poison someone else!

It does make me wonder where all of those residents have gone ?

Were their houses repossessed or did they just give up and move ?

on the wider scale of things, since the economy took a dive have the ex-home owners been housed or are the majority renting houses ?

I am just wondering how the average joe blogs is coping in America.

I lived in the suburbs of detroit, most work in out in the burbs like aurburn hills, rochers hills, troy, and most of oakland county. Anything below 8 mile is degraded and transient. There are casino's in detroit that help people go into town and spend their money at the delicious restaurants there. Law firms and gm headquarters are in the city. The nice parts about that city is belle isle which they had to close the aquarium and park because of limited funds. They have nice boat cruises along the detroit river and is close to windsor ont canada, which has awesome nightlife shopping and good food and hosts a casino and an array of strip joints.
Detroit is a fascinating city and very historic. There are groups that have gotten together to try and clean it up and rebuilt and renovate deshevelled homes, it's just that it is so worn down people dont have money to maintain their homes, thus turning to drugs, stealing, and pawning off whatever they can. Stealing manholes off sewers was a big thing not to long ago, they would sell them to scrap metal buyers. I do hope this city raises from it's ashes, it's a great city and the dream cruise is a lot of fun.

Originally posted by tiger5
There is no reason why money from the useless Afghan war could not be redirected to projects that genuinely benefit Americans.

Have you forgotten the lucrative poppy fields? Opiates for the masses! Special offer, get yours on the cold and dusty Detroit streets now! Pure contamination guaranteed.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
If it is not easy, then why are you so quick to judge others?

Because I hate to hear people whine about being oppressed while they aren't doing anything about it. It's not easy and sucks at times, but you can improve your lot in life.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Feeling a little guilty? All I am suggesting is that to get ahead, by definition you have to step on others. I have many times in my lifetime, unfortunately, and in all probability so have you, and your granpappy.

Not in the least. You can improve your life and get ahead without stepping on others.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
I said nothing about "white people, care to quote me where i said that?

You had said that the Irish didn't have the problems that the African-Americans had.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Exactly my point. They gave life and limb, and paid their whole life to promote a corporate state. Stolen from in the Depression, killed in The Big One. The quintessential American. People like this should be the first to rise against the Beast, not support it.

Whether you know it or not, everything you say sounds like pro corporate crap. Anti-worker, anti-middle class, pro big business. WAKE UP! YOU HAVE BEEN SCREWED! QUIT HELPING THEM!

Compared to alot of the world YOU ARE RICH. And what the Corporatocracy wants is for YOU TO BE LEVEL WITH A THIRD WORLD WORKER. That means, a DIVE in YOUR lifestyle.....AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE HELPING THEM MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Mmmmmm..kkkkkk.

In my spare time I pick up a couple of extra bucks securing properties in some of the worst areas of Detroit. I work for the banks who have foreclosed on the homes. I typically go in and board up windows, winterize the dwelling, fix whatever needs to be fixed. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone in, spent weeks fixing a house only to come back and see everything that I’ve done destroyed. I can’t tell you why people do this, it’s almost like there are portions of the community that ‘like’ the state that the city is in. I don’t know. I’ve had brand new windows broken out, new doors kicked in, vinyl siding ripped off the homes, all of no reason.

It’s a sad thing, seeing people ousted from their homes, in a city where no one can find work. Some people are so desperate that they break in to these abandoned houses and steal all of the copper plumbing, aluminum siding, whatever they can steal to get money.

There are so many people in this area that take two and three part time jobs (because there are no full time jobs) and still cannot keep the lights and the heat on.

Originally posted by TheDarkHorse
In my spare time I pick up a couple of extra bucks securing properties in some of the worst areas of Detroit. I work for the banks who have foreclosed on the homes. I typically go in and board up windows, winterize the dwelling, fix whatever needs to be fixed. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone in, spent weeks fixing a house only to come back and see everything that I’ve done destroyed. I can’t tell you why people do this,

They are tearing down the symbols of their oppression.

It is utterly immoral that perfectly good houses, stand empty whilst there are people desperate for a home to shelter them from the Detroit winter.

It’s a sad thing, seeing people ousted from their homes, in a city where no one can find work. Some people are so desperate that they break in to these abandoned houses and steal all of the copper plumbing, aluminum siding, whatever they can steal to get money.

Those markets that their jobs were transferred to now need the resources and components to fulfill their contractual obligations. Earlier this week, it was reported that the British 2p copper coin (minted between 1971 and 1992) is worth 3.3p in terms of the raw materials required to make it. Post 1992, the coins have been made from a cheaper copper alloy.

There are so many people in this area that take two and three part time jobs (because there are no full time jobs) and still cannot keep the lights and the heat on.

They deserve a living wage. Working hard and not being able to afford everyday necessities like heat and light is an affront to common decency.

reply to post by diddy1234


I believe the population is now 1/2 of what it was in its peak.

Where are they? Most whites simply moved out of Detroit and into the surrounding suburbs. Many of both colours moved away to work elsewhere in America. Of the blacks who remained, many are 6 ft. under, or lying in the morgue because no-one can afford to "claim" them.

I agree too and see this as the only place online worhty of prophecy. I hope people take it in, there are so many doom in the world today as to dual nature of the existence of reality, ontologically exteistneially at least.

reply to post by Zoyd23


Oh please! Giving kids laptops without igniting a passion for learning is just useless. I am not attacking Zoyd23 just the Government's stupidity and cosmetic thinking. More bread and circuses!!


Here is a hint. 1985 my friends PHD lab had 4 big blackborads. He had to go down to the Computer suite to use computers he was mathematics PHD student.

Detroit is in state of cancer. Let`s dissect the genome and get to the root of the problem. As we know detroit got prosperous thanks to automotive industry. Building cars is an act of creating added value. it is an added value of skilled and highly paid workforce.By creating added value and paying taxes it creates purchasing power within society. Thus this siciety goes out there and buys houses, yachts, cars, zamboni`s, you name it. the problem started when Us couldn`t compete with japanese, and germans, because the money was not properly invested in improving quality, diversity., fit and finish, reliability, etc. As customers veered away in revulsion, Big 3 decided to fake domestic manufacturing by simply buying import components, from Opel, Daewoo, Mazda,etc. This improved quality, and there was still this american badge on the hood so people started buying more detroit iron, without suspecting that engines are from mazda, gearboxes from Aisin, etc.The real detroit iron that was left was probably leaf springs on trucks and drum brakes on minivans, thus a small chance of breaking down. The problem is that there was no more necessity for highly skilled and paid workforce, the engineers were fired, so were subcontractors and suppliers. All the meaningful jobs were replaced with vapourjobs- salesclerks, football , banking etc. Thus the high salaried communities were destroyed, together with their purchasing power. The final nail in the coffin was forever increasing property prices. Can you imagine 80 percent of population working for 9 dollars an hour while the house prices were doubling every 3 years.The destroyed highly paid population simply put permafrost on consumption, and all the associated businesses went south along with them. the root of evil is in 2 places- Detroit companies are run by money, not by engineers who build cars. Any 5 minute solution that looks like increasing dividends or stock prices seemed to fit Detroit, while it would never fit keiretsu driven japanese companies.. Next problem- lack of engineering capacity- because most of the hardest and complex components are engineered abroad, US simply loses expertize, and can`t scramble enough engineers and technicians who would manage , say, an 8 speed gearbox.There is almost no domestic car platforms left, all of them are old, obsolete, and replaced with either german or japanese ones. yet, as the added value is created abroad, so is the purchasing power. By shoving all the highly intense engineering job abroad and faking domestic manufacturing, al it creates is CEO millionnaires and gazillions of Detroiters on food stamps. Detroit simply shows how the corporate greed and engineering mediocrity destoys wealth of a country. Similar situation is in truck, motorbike, consumer electronics, forklift, wristwatch, you name it, and we don`t make it!

reply to post by MrWhite665


Awwwwwwwwwwwww I wasn't being politically correct? The truth must really hurt!

reply to post by Boreal


Your screed doesn't account for trade barriers set up in Asian markets against North American product.

Canuck, what product? Harley Davidson obsolete chrome overlaid bikes barrier? Chewing gum barriers? Burger barriers? Ziplock bag barriers? Have you ever researched that ships from China go virtually empty back to China once returning from US. All they have is half full ships with metal scrap and some raw materials. China doesn`t need to impose any barriers. Neither does Japan. Remember what happened when Chrysler tried to sell Dodge Neon in Japan? And what happens when Honda decides to sell Accord in US?

Originally posted by Boreal
Canuck, what product?

I'm thinkin' cars...Detroit?
Asian markets restrict auto imports from North America...if we did it back, the auto market here would thrive.