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Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by Britguy
Well, Britguy, you take your enemies as they come.
The US is the same US whose "peasants" defeated the greatest army of the day - the British Army.
It wasn't going too well in WWI, and oddly, the US forces get over there, tell the French and British commanders to go to hell when they wanted to use US soldiers as replacements for French and British losses, and oddly, the war started to turn as American forces began to fight.
I also seem to recollect that Britain and France greased up and bent over for HItler at every opportunity, and could have taken him out early on - but didn't have the guts to.
Your approach to war is to let **** get entirely out of hand, and then turn to your American cousins to pull your bacon out of the fire.
We'll fight them as they make themselves known.
Your way the last time out cost 52,000,000 lives.
Our way keeps things to a minimum.
The Pentagon’s records indicate that from 1965 to 1975 Cambodia was actually the target of a chilling 2 756 941 tons of US bombs, dropped during no fewer than 230 516 sorties, a tonnage nearly five times greater than previously believed. It is now apparent that in 1969–73 alone Cambodia suffered nearly half of all the US bombing of Indochina (six million tons over nine years), making it even today the most heavily bombed country in history.
In 1973 the US Congress, angered at the destruction (and the deception of the Nixon administration), legislated a halt to the Cambodia bombing. The great damage was already done. Having grown under the rain of bombs from a few thousand fighters to over 200 000 regular and militia forces by 1973, the Khmer Rouge took Phnom Penh two years later. They then subjected Cambodia to a genocidal Maoist agrarian revolution.
The Cambodian bombing campaign had two unintended side effects that ultimately combined to produce the very domino effect that the Vietnam War was supposed to prevent. First, the bombing forced the Vietnamese Communists deeper and deeper into Cambodia, bringing them into greater contact with Khmer Rouge insurgents. Second, the bombs drove ordinary Cambodians into the arms of the Khmer Rouge, a group that seemed initially to have slim prospects of revolutionary success. Pol Pot himself described the Khmer Rouge during that period as “fewer than five thousand poorly armed guerrillas . . . scattered across the Cambodian landscape, uncertain about their strategy, tactics, loyalty, and leaders.”
Originally posted by Constantlysilenced
I think you're sour that the US is nothing more than a laughing stock to the world, populated by fat, greedy, stupid, useless, dumbed down people! I pity you, I really do. I'll pitty you as china crushes your economy too
I think the bow and arrow guy didnt read what you said ,cause he didnt really address your points made which I think are a fair representation of the facts
Originally posted by qalameid
reply to post by deessell
So where did the 600,000 dead Cambodians come from? I never questioned the tonnage of ordnance dropped, though I still think, from my own reading, that in the end we dropped more in Laos than Cambodia. But believe me, most of those bombs ended up not doing much except clearing away trees.
As for linking the bombings directly to the Khmer Rouge's rise to power - they had already made contact with the Vietnamese communists and were being supplied by them. The government wasn't in any position to stop that insurgency anyway. While the bombing surely drove away peasants into their arms, you can't say that if we didn't bomb Cambodia, the KM would not have come to power and massacred so many people.
We did not massacre the high numbers of civilians as you claim, and we did not lay the foundation for the KM's actions, though I'll admit what we did helped them come into power.
Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by deessell
Actually, the bombs dropped in Cambodia were along the various routes of the trail.
The way humans work is like this: The Americans are bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
Let us stay the hell away from that SOB.
So, while lots of bombs were dropped, a number of them were dropped in response to recon forces calling in troop movements and convoys.
I've seen bomb craters, cratered. They kept coming along more or less the same routes, and we bombed more or less the same routes.
The civilians unassed the area soon after the first bombings.
The US bombing database was released by the US Embassy in Cambodia to the Royal Cambodian Government and the Cambodian Mine Action Authority (CMAA) to assist in the clearance of unexploded ordnance. Mr. Taylor Owen of the Peace Research Institute in Oslo, Norway, obtained a copy in Phnom Penh. Mr. Owen, now at Oxford University, kindly provided this data to the CGP in 2004, when he was a Visiting Fellow in the Genocide Studies Program at the Yale Center for International and Area Studies (www.yale.edu/gsp). Further resources on the US role in recent Cambodian history are listed at www.yale.edu/cgp/us.html
Originally posted by deessell
I'm sorry but you are misinformed. The HCM trail that you are talking about was not the target of most bombing raids on Cambodia, as is widely and falsely believed. Most of the NVA left the country after the 1973 peace agreement, and the main part of the bombing came after that. The bombing was to support the illegal Lon Nol government, there were "rings of fire" around Phnom Penh and other provincial capitals. Kien Svay district for example was carpet bombed many times.