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Atheism's Missionaries

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posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Why do you keep assaulting this poor straw man?


this is not going to do, for I am not assaulting anyone... this thread is about Atheism, I have not pinned you or anyone as an Atheist, I only feel atheism does not exist, or a true form of it anyway, one in which does not question, (the question is the doubt for atheism)

now if you professed atheism that is not my specific problem or solution, I am only seeking a clearer definition of atheism yes... and by addressing the particular group and non-belief as a whole.

I still do not understand the term "straw man" or how it is used and for what purposed, it is something I should also seek out a clearer definition of.

my reasoning and intention is very "rational"

edit:

from the stance of an atheist... traditionaldrummer happens to be one of the only ones clearing it up for me with a better definition I can comprehend, and without me being schooled in science or philosophy.


edit on 1/18/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


It's not a rational conclusion...there's no atheist missionaries, there's people questioning the logic/rationality behind religions (not just monotheistic religions). Nothing wrong with that, and since it's not based on a belief, it's not missioning



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Why do you keep assaulting this poor straw man?


this is not going to do, for I am not assaulting anyone... this thread is about Atheism, I have not pinned you or anyone as an Atheist, I only feel atheism does not exist, or a true form of it anyway, one in which does not question, (the question is the doubt for atheism)


...a straw man isn't an individual, it's an distorted version of another person's position. It's among the informal logical fallacies. I'm saying you're making up positions to stick in the mouths of atheists and then smacking them down.



now if you professed atheism that is not my specific problem or solution, I am only seeking a clearer definition of atheism yes... and by addressing the particular group and non-belief as a whole.


No, you're addressing something that is held by no atheist in the world with any lick of sense.



I still do not understand the term "straw man" or how it is used and for what purposed, it is something I should also seek out a clearer definition of.


Here's a quick reference for you.



my reasoning and intention is very "rational"


[quite[
from the stance of an atheist... traditionaldrummer happens to be one of the only ones clearing it up for me with a better definition I can comprehend, and without me being schooled in science or philosophy.


Atheism: no belief in any deity.

It's quite simple.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I'm saying you're making up positions to stick in the mouths of atheists and then smacking them down.

am I being accused of something here ?

let me better state what I have just typed in my last response...

I do not believe atheism exists, therefore I have made a topic with an esoteric question, Atheism's Missionaries... I am trying to ascertain what they do and what this belief in non-belief in deities is because alot of people see different things including philosophies as a deity... for instance Christians view "love" as part of their deity.

I am not denying atheism exists, for then I would have made up my mind and would leave it at that, it is kind of the way I am about things.

I was introduced to Jediism just a day or so ago right here on ATS, I have never heard of it before... but I looked into Jediism and what it had to state and what it beliefs are, ect, now I understand Jediism. It was not that hard considering their statements are made very clearly and their cause is logical and rational.

I am only a "doubter" of a true form of atheism, therefore I actually do still believe in atheism, I am only seeking a clearer definition of true atheism [singularly and not attached to anything else].


edit on 1/18/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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and to add...

I think atheism attached to anything else like agnosticism is not a clearer definition, for then one would only be a "doubter" that deities exist.

I am a Theist, although theist gnostic sounds attractive I have looked into it and decide my beliefs just fall on the all encompassing position of theism.

until someone can educate me on my level, that of a untrained layman in this particular field, I will seek a clear definition without trying to make assumptions [in other words I remain open to it]

there is only on/off, day/night, yes/no, true/false, innocent/guilty, 1/0 in my opinion when trying to base a clear definition of something in which to use as a base or a rock to stand on.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I'm saying you're making up positions to stick in the mouths of atheists and then smacking them down.

am I being accused of something here ?



Yes, you are. You're making up things about how atheists treat the theory of evolution.



let me better state what I have just typed in my last response...


Repeating things doesn't make it easier.



I do not believe atheism exists, therefore I have made a topic with an esoteric question, Atheism's Missionaries...


A habit of yours, trying to redefine threads when people show that the point of them is silly or wrong in some way.

Your OP was an attack on atheists as people:


I am going to keep this short... I seem to put too much info in my posts and topics.

Where in the world is Atheism doing good by their fellow man and helping spread the real truth (or their truth) to others ? (like Theistic missionaries do)

Where on the globe are they spreading the "good news" of discovering this truth that there is not a God or Gods ?

If they are doing it (spreading the word and freeing people) where can we find this version of the Truth ?

lets keep this civil shall we, (no language, insults, ect) there are 3 question marks above.

thanks for any input...


It's about a lack of atheist proselytization, a supposed lack of atheist charity, and about a supposed location of their version of 'the truth'.



I am trying to ascertain what they do and what this belief in non-belief in deities is because alot of people see different things including philosophies as a deity...


Atheists? We do a lot of things. We're a very diverse people.

It's also not 'a belief in non-belief'...that's a contradiction. It's simply not believing in deities.



for instance Christians view "love" as part of their deity.


Odd...because it contradicts how the Bible states things, but that's an issue to be discussed in another thread. Check my "Define your deity!" thread.



I am not denying atheism exists, for then I would have made up my mind and would leave it at that, it is kind of the way I am about things.


Well, that's a good thing. Keep an open mind.



I was introduced to Jediism just a day or so ago right here on ATS, I have never heard of it before... but I looked into Jediism and what it had to state and what it beliefs are, ect, now I understand Jediism. It was not that hard considering their statements are made very clearly and their cause is logical and rational.


And it's also partially to make fun of established religion.



I am only a "doubter" of a true form of atheism, therefore I actually do still believe in atheism, I am only seeking a clearer definition of true atheism [singularly and not attached to anything else].


Well, there's really only one form of atheism because atheism regards a single belief. It is a lack of belief in any deity. That's all atheism is.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
and to add...

I think atheism attached to anything else like agnosticism is not a clearer definition, for then one would only be a "doubter" that deities exist.


That's what atheism is. It's a skeptical position. It's the null hypothesis.



I am a Theist, although theist gnostic sounds attractive I have looked into it and decide my beliefs just fall on the all encompassing position of theism.


But do you think you know that God exists?



until someone can educate me on my level, that of a untrained layman in this particular field, I will seek a clear definition without trying to make assumptions [in other words I remain open to it]



there is only on/off, day/night, yes/no, true/false,


False analogies. Philosophical positions aren't like binary systems

Also, what about dusk and dawn?



innocent/guilty,


As someone who has a basic understanding of law (beyond that of popular television shows but not at a very formal level), I'm quite sure that it's not either innocence or guilt.



1/0


...2...3...4...5..6...7...8...9....10...11...etc...



in my opinion when trying to base a clear definition of something in which to use as a base or a rock to stand on.


There are very few bases in philosophy. It's one of the things you learn early on.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Yes, you are. You're making up things about how atheists treat the theory of evolution.


and what does a topic called "the Ignorance of Creation(ist) have to say about what you think of a particular group ?

albeit you do have way more topics than me and are quite the veteran on ATS.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Yes, you are. You're making up things about how atheists treat the theory of evolution.


and what does a topic called "the Ignorance of Creation(ist) have to say about what you think of a particular group ?


Um...that's irrelevant to the statement you're quoting.

Now, I'm simply referencing that my experience has been that creationists tend to be ignorant of basic science. They're not ignorant of everything, merely scientific matters.

On the other hand, you're simply making up statements to shove into the mouth of a hypothetical atheist.



albeit you do have way more topics than me and are quite the veteran on ATS.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Yes, you are. You're making up things about how atheists treat the theory of evolution.


I assure you I am not making things up, it is quite obvious and self-evident...

Atheism's #1 tool when choosing to do battle with Theist or Creation Scientist for that matter is Darwin and the theory of Evolution.

in my opinion what would make a more interesting conversation from atheists would be physics or anything other than evolution theory, in my opinion of course.

start a topic that claims Theist are ignorant of physics and prove me wrong...


edit on 1/18/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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next, XYZ steps in...

common buddy where you at ?




posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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Tried to format according to shaded areas, with total lack of success.
edit on 18-1-2011 by bogomil because: format



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
There are very few bases in philosophy. It's one of the things you learn early on.


yes there are, but one established base is "Majority Rules"

Um... you are so confusing sometimes, what do you want to claim Theists are ignorant of, philosophy or science ?

because Science is but a Philosophy...



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Um... you are so confusing sometimes, what do you want to claim Theists are ignorant of, philosophy or science ?




I'm sorry - can't help myself. Madnessinmysoul - - confusing?

Probably the most straight forward - - non-confusing poster I have ever encountered.

I know he has listed at least one Theist Scientist in his posts.

You just keep trying to twist stuff. If one approach doesn't work - - regroup - try another approach - - and On and On and On.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
Probably the most straight forward - - non-confusing poster I have ever encountered.


that does not realize science is but a philosophy ?

and does not realize Evolution is not the only key...

lets go into real science like physics, it is all I request... alot of Atheists are limited to the box of Darwinism.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


regardless I feel honored to be getting attention from such an established and respected member...

I am planning on moving out of this section quite soon, as you can look into my profile and view my noob arrival friends list and easily determine who own this section on ats.

I have not been many other places really or for enough time to feel the joint out.

the owners of this section of the forum are quite cool though I have to say, and give many thanks to them.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by Annee
Probably the most straight forward - - non-confusing poster I have ever encountered.


that does not realize science is but a philosophy ?

and does not realize Evolution is not the only key...

lets go into real science like physics, it is all I request... alot of Atheists are limited to the box of Darwinism.


No, science isn't philosophy...there's a reason they separate the two at university (if you've ever been you should know that).



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 

Science is a body of empirical, theoretical, and practical knowledge about the natural world, produced by researchers making use of scientific methods, which emphasize the observation, explanation, and prediction of real world phenomena by experiment. Given the dual status of science as objective knowledge and as a human construct, good historiography of science draws on the historical methods of both intellectual history and social history.

Tracing the exact origins of modern science is possible through the many important texts which have survived from the classical world. However, the word scientist is relatively recent—first coined by William Whewell in the 19th century. Previously, people investigating nature called themselves natural philosophers.

en.wikipedia.org...

science is not only compatible with Christianity, it in fact finds its origins in Christianity...

University eh ? and the students of said universities do not kow the origins of Science ?



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Go to a university's philosophy department and ask the professors there to teach you biology/chemistry/physics...my guess is, they'll think you're a bit nuts


Regarding your quote, you do realize that science in the 19th century isn't the same as science today...right? We don't live in the 19 hundreds

edit on 19-1-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

science is not only compatible with Christianity, it in fact finds its origins in Christianity...



Christianity...really...what about all the other religions in the world? You do realize the Chinese weren't Christian and were years a. of us in terms of science at one point. Same with Muslims in the Middle East...they had hospitals before we did. What about the Mayans and Egyptians?

You are so focused on Christianity, but it just shows how ignorant you are towards other religions or atheism. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you believe science is based on Christianity.

You know what Christianity did to science????

- You said the earth isn't flat => death
- You said the sun doesn't go around the earth => death
- You used some herbs to cure someone => witch => death
- You opened up a human body => death

Do you really wanna claim Christianity helped science progress, ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!! We have Christians outlawing microchips because they are the "mark of the beast" for crying out loud.

This has to be the dumbest statement I read on ATS today...seriously, I'm baffled.



posted on Jan, 19 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


prove it wrong that science is not a philosophy...

do you have hard facts and links of your claim that science is not philosophy ?

please use solidified non-third-part links when posting your rebuttal.

though I am waiting on so many facts backing your claims as it is, I doubt you will have time to address this issue properly...


edit on 1/19/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



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