Do Atheists Have Higher Iq's Than Religious Folk In The Western World Today

Originally posted by Annee
One time in 5th grade we had to write a report - on conservation of the neighborhood - - from a personal viewpoint. Mine was used as an example of "thinking for yourself" and read to the whole class. However - the teacher did not believe I wrote it because I was getting Ds in the class. I had to bring a signed note from my mother stating I wrote it myself.

I feel for you. Sadly, in my case, when I had a poetry prize taken from me because they decided, despite my history of writing plays, stories and poetry that scored top marks, that my parents must have written this particular poem for me. Which was stupid, they never wrote anything. So I was publicly humiliated and the prize given to the head prefect instead. I don't know if it was personal or if it was just because they couldn't have a year 10 kid winning. I never felt like writing poetry after that.

School does not want you to think - they want you to follow.

Real education teaches you to think. There was a big movement in the 60s to change education to make it motivation based and prepare kids for a changing world. - but it needed truly inspiring teachers, and flumped when less able teachers tried it.

reply to post by Kailassa


Thank you for sharing that story

I also get upset at the extreme importance placed on IQ tests, especially when used for any type of "judgment." As i said, i really do feel it only measures a certain type of intelligence, but there are so, so many different kinds. Its horrible your son was treated that way due to some "number." I have worked a great amount with the special olympics, and almost every person i meet there would not do all that well on an IQ test. However, i consider most of them to be superior human beings to myself where it counts. All those people i meet doing that have really opened my eyes, and heart, and i cant thank them enough. All i can do is try to live the lessons they taught me But thats starting to get off topic.

My hypothesis on the mild link between IQ and atheism is the type of intelligence that is represented by an IQ test might be indicative of a predisposition towards atheistic leanings.

I still would need to see data to believe the link between education and atheism. I think they are, on average, unrelated. I think the leanings towards atheism will be held whether or not one receives education. The education might push someone into one direction or the other, but i just cant see it as being the sole primary factor. It is only anecdotal, but every single atheist i personally know (there are quite a few!) were atheist before they graduated high school, so that may be giving my perspective a bias. It is also hard to measure since that is a time in our lives where we are going through many, many different changes. I think an interesting experiment would be to see the rate of atheism conversion in a religious college. Bah, getting off topic again It may not be a bad idea to start a topic about that though. Ill let someone else do it as my topics dont do so well

Originally posted by Kailassa
Sadly, in my case, when I had a poetry prize taken from me because they decided, despite my history of writing plays, stories and poetry that scored top marks, that my parents must have written this particular poem for me. Which was stupid, they never wrote anything. So I was publicly humiliated and the prize given to the head prefect instead. I don't know if it was personal or if it was just because they couldn't have a year 10 kid winning. I never felt like writing poetry after that.

My mother would have had their head. She actually got one teacher written up and almost fired - - for failing my brother even though he got a perfect score on his final. He didn't turn in his homework.

Yes there are good teachers - - that encourage thinking. In my entire life I have had 2.

My daughter was in a gifted class - besides regular school. The teacher was like a Plastic Robot with perfect makeup - not a hair out of place (thank you Aqua Net). They couldn't even pick an interesting teacher for the gifted class. She tried to have my daughter removed from the class - - because she was becoming depressed because she couldn't do the work. Oh Please! She was bored out of her mind and manipulating the teacher. I said "give her 6 months - she's playing you". She left the class with a B+. No way that teacher was gonna giver her an A.

Today - - everything is about the Test. We've gone backwards.

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by Kailassa

 

It is only anecdotal, but every single atheist i personally know (there are quite a few!) were atheist before they graduated high school, so that may be giving my perspective a bias. It is also hard to measure since that is a time in our lives where we are going through many, many different changes. I think an interesting experiment would be to see the rate of atheism conversion in a religious college. Bah, getting off topic again

It may not be a bad idea to start a topic about that though. I'll let someone else do it as my topics dont do so well

Out of the atheists I've known, some have been taught to be atheist by their parents, some have simply realised they, personally, have no reason to believe in anything spiritual, but most of them have adopted atheism in response to religious hypocrisy which has brought home to them the notion that this hypocrisy consists of a pretense to be following a system which itself is based on pretense.

I seriously believe the main factor in "converting" people to atheism is religious hypocrisy.

Religious people trying to enshrine their beliefs into law, such as anti-abortion and anti-homosexual laws, also force others to evaluate the religions these laws are based on, thus turning more peope against religion.

I'd never thought of the careful study of religious history and literature turning people atheist, but, knowing the bible well, it's not hard to see how it could.

Originally posted by Kailassa
I seriously believe the main factor in "converting" people to atheism is religious hypocrisy.

Religious people trying to enshrine their beliefs into law, such as anti-abortion and anti-homosexual laws, also force others to evaluate the religions these laws are based on, thus turning more peope against religion.

I'd never thought of the careful study of religious history and literature turning people atheist, but, knowing the bible well, it's not hard to see how it could.

Some for sure - - and its taken me 60+ years to get here.

Its more that I believe something else.

But - - religion in politics? That's definitely a "kick starter".

Found this thread in the Philosophy section. Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation ,

So, this is a topic that is actually quite often discussed, and it's one that seems to trend towards atheists being more intelligent with the data points we have now.

But as I said before, we need a greater level of research.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Kailassa

My mother would have had their head. She actually got one teacher written up and almost fired - - for failing my brother even though he got a perfect score on his final. He didn't turn in his homework.

Sweet.
Not mine though. My mother was not the sort of person the word "mother" generally brings to mind.

Yes there are good teachers - - that encourage thinking. In my entire life I have had 2.

I was lucky, some of my teachers were attrocious, but I had a lot of good ones too.
I'll never forget a physics teacher I encountered as a mature age student. When, instead of teaching why things happened, she just gave the class a bunch of formulae to memorise, I asked her if she could explain why these formulae worked. She explained there was no "why", these formulae were simply the laws of god and nature.

Having brushed up on physics by reading a bunch of easy to understand text-books, I was able to explain the "whys" to the other kids, who came to me at lunch-times for help. So I was sent to the principal for being a trouble-maker. Funnily enough he was the same principal who, 10 years previously at a different school, had prevented me studying sciences, despite me wanting to be a doctor, because I was a girl, and girls can't do that kind of work, and if they do, they become freaks who no man would want to marry. But this time I could smile him down, seeing through him and knowing my rights.

My daughter was in a gifted class - besides regular school. The teacher was like a Plastic Robot with perfect makeup - not a hair out of place (thank you Aqua Net). They couldn't even pick an interesting teacher for the gifted class. She tried to have my daughter removed from the class - - because she was becoming depressed because she couldn't do the work. Oh Please! She was bored out of her mind and manipulating the teacher. I said "give her 6 months - she's playing you". She left the class with a B+. No way that teacher was gonna giver her an A.

That's terrible. My youngest was like you, at least I seem to remember you said this about yourself, he could read and understand the newspaper at 4 years old. But his teacher in grade one decided he was retarded because, having Asperger's, he'd go and play with the trains in the corner and stop hearing her if she shouted at him too much. She and the principal explained to me, very slowly in one syllable words, that he was bound to be retarded because my other son was, and everyone knew retardation was hereditory.

A few months later, at his new school, the teacher had him up the front teaching the class maths, because, already used to teaching his retarded brother, he loved teaching and could get the class interested.

Today - - everything is about the Test. We've gone backwards.

Its a tragedy for kids when the future of the school and teachers is dependant on training the kids to get the right answers to constant tests.
But it does produce a lot of moderately useful automatons, and the failures can still be used as cannon fodder in a never-ending war...

IQ or "brain power" aren't the sole criteria for being a believer or a disbeliever, throughout many religious texts the creator has invited mankind to use common sense to pounder on his creation, but he also informs us that being rightly guided is a gift that he bestows or withholds from whosoever he wants from his creatures, because he is the one that knows them better than themselves.
" Whoever Allah guides, there is none that can misguide him, and whoever He misguides, there is none that can guide him". (Hadith)

reply to post by lewman


1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world... psalm 19

God & Science