It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

What came first the Choice or the Measurement?

page: 1

log in


posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 06:22 AM
Let's look at Schrodinger's thought experiment. The cat in the box will either live or die based on the random occurrence of the radioactive source. Let's say the poison is released and the cat dies. The cat is a classical object so a measurement will occur and the cat will be in a dead state before the Observer opens the box. This is because of Decoherence and any superposition will quickly decohere because the cat is a big object and the state of the cat will interact with the environment rather quickly.

So what caused this measurement to occur? Was it the radioactive source or the choice of the Observer to carry out the experiment? If the observer didn't make the choice to carry out the experiment the cat would be alive. So can we call choice the collapse of the probability wave? When I wake up in the morning I have I'm presented with a probability wave. I can turn on the TV, turn on the computer, go to the Fridge or go back to sleep. Of course there's more choices that can be made but we will start with these.

Reality isn't measured until I make a choice. So my choice creates reality. Let's say I go to the Fridge and I cook an egg , the egg falls to the floor and when I pick up the broken egg I notice a piece of paper under the stove that looks familiar. I grab the piece of paper and it's the number of an old friend that I bumped into but I lost the number and it must of fell out of my pocket and landed under the stove. I then call my friend, we meet up for lunch and we end up doing some business together.

All of this started with my choice to go to the Fridge and get something to eat. If I would have decided to watch TV instead and I skipped breakfast than a different reality would have been measured.

So was there a First Choice that preceded all measurements? Is Choice an embedded property of the universe? What gives human beings the ability to make choices between different measurements? Is Choice an ability powered by the Spirit?

What came first, the Choice or the Measurement?
edit on 31-12-2010 by Matrix Rising because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 07:09 AM
Choice is a by product of a neural network, all animals have choice wither or not most people accept it. A neural network is like a complex pattern matching algorithm. There are many patterns in life and our behaviour. We are presented with options (hungry, need food) and based on previous experience we get better at picking the right option. It is fairly complex how neural networks work and adapt, but pretty cool as well. There may be other parts to the whole human experience / choice thing but it does explain a lot about cognition.

As for Schrodinger's cat, I find it idiotic to think of a cat as alive and dead and only determined when we open the door. The cat is alive or dead and we only find out when we open the door. No wonder we treat animals so bad.

posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 12:17 PM
I think it's deeper than neurons in the brain. I think these things are answered on a quantum level.

On a quantum level choice truly upsets the apple cart. It's one reason why some are attracted to parallel universes. They say you're not making the choice but the parallel universes are somehow making these choices. So in universe A if you go right, in universe B you will go left.

This is to avoid the observer making a choice. Professor David Deutsch said in his book The Fabric of Reality is one of the reason he likes parallel universes is because it reduces the role of the observer.

At the end of the day, parallel universes don't say anything about the choice of the observer and neither does decoherence. Decoherence just says after the choice is made it's thermodynamically irreversible.

So you can't get around the choice of the observer with parallel universes and decoherence.

I think this points to the unconscious mind of the universe.

Let's go back to Schrodinger's cat. When we look at the radioactive device, we have to ask is it making an unconscious choice? If decay occurs and poison is released the cat dies. If the poison isn't released then the cat will live and maybe go on to have kittens.

So the unconscious choice of the radioactive source created reality.

We know that many of the choices we make occur on an unconscious level. Let's say you're watching a TV show and you're consciously watching the two characters talk but your unconscious notices an empty bag of chips in the garbage can, after the show is over you might want some chips and other snacks so you go to Rite Aid or CVS.

So the decision to get some snacks occurred on a subconscious level before it even reached a conscious response (going to get the snacks).

So the unconscious mind doesn't mean uniformed or random. The unconscious mind is very logical and it just responds based on information. The conscious mind is irrational and acts on lack of information but this is what makes us human.

The unconscious mind will say, don't run into that burning building, but if there's a child in there the conscious mind will run into the building even if it means his/her life will end.

So it looks like the universe is an unconscious mind that extremely logical. Humans explore this logic and this is science and technology.

We're irrational and illogical but that's what gives us the human experience.

new topics

log in