Actual Roswell Newspaper Text - The "Smoking Gun" - NO UFO!

Originally posted by The Shrike

Roswell Daily Record
Tuesday, July 8, 1947

RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region
No Details of Flying Disk Are Revealed

Roswell Hardware Man and Wife Report Disk Seen

The intelligence office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Field announced at noon today, that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.

According to information released by the department, over authority of Maj. J. A. Marcel, intelligence officer, the disk was recovered on a ranch in the Roswell vicinity, after an unidentified rancher had notified Sheriff Geo. Wilcox, here, that he had found the instrument on his premises.

Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the ranch and recovered the disk, it was stated.

After the intelligence officer here had inspected the instrument it was flown to higher headquarters.

The intelligence office stated that no details of the saucer's construction or its appearance had been revealed.

Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who seen what they thought was a flying disk.

They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed.

www.roswellufofestival.com...

---------------------------------------------

Not sure if I quoted this right from OP, Appologies if I goofed.

I guess he himself didn't say saucer, but my original comment still stands as to why he did not correctly identify it form the get go. I mean balloons had been around for quite some time ans should be easily identifiable.

ooops sorry heres the link lol sorry guys. www.cufos.org...

im thinking that iformation on that link may be wrong or i read it wrong anyway i have just been looking into project mogul and it seems it wasnt declassified two days after roswell it infact was declassified sum 40 years later, so my lesson learnt DO MORE RESEARCH DUHHHH anyway because thats wrong information on that link how much of the rest is credible i ask myself.

time to realy start digging now

Originally posted by illuminateme
(snip)
Not sure if I quoted this right from OP, Appologies if I goofed.

I guess he himself didn't say saucer, but my original comment still stands as to why he did not correctly identify it form the get go. I mean balloons had been around for quite some time ans should be easily identifiable.

The problem with answers such as yours is that you place yourself at the place and the time and you're not the only one that errs in this way. Only the principals involved know the details that you think you can extrapolate from their limited comments. IOW, you weren't there so you don't know what they saw or just plain experienced. Yes, their comments are on the record but no one now can say they were connected to anything whether a UFO or a balloon train or Roswell. It's too late. Whatever they said they saw has no bearing on anything because nothing can be proven from their comments.

Originally posted by simples
i have just been looking into project mogul and it seems it wasnt declassified two days after roswell it infact was declassified sum 40 years later, so my lesson learnt DO MORE RESEARCH DUHHHH

You're finding the same thing as me. A lot of what we read in this field turns out to not be true after we do further research. Here's a source regarding the guy who worked on Mogul and didn't even know its classified name "mogul" until 40 something years later:

Air Force reports on the Roswell UFO incident

"Retrieval", the third part of a UFO Down To Earth documentary series that dealt with Roswell aired on the satellite Discovery Channel in 1996,[18] brought together Professor Charles B. Moore and Irving Newton (the weather officer who initially identified the debris in 1947) to demonstrate that what was originally found were the remains of a balloon carrying microphones to listen to the first Soviet Atom Bomb, classified 'Top Secret Priority 1A'. The project name itself was kept secret from the personnel: 'Mogul'.

Quoting Professor Moore: "To be truthful, I never heard of the name 'Project Mogul' until 1992 - I did know the intrinsic purpose of what we were doing, that is trying to detect Soviet nuclear explosions, but I knew none of the military classifications and I had no need to know"..."Retrieval" also pointed out that there were at least seven different versions of the Roswell story (at that time), hinting that more and more embellishments and accretions to the story were likely to be added as time went by.

There are probably even more than 7 different versions now. But a lot of former Roswell believers have defected to the Mogul explanation. Even Pflock used to believe it was a crashed saucer before he wrote "Roswell : Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe". I used to think they were covering something up, and I was right. But that was before 1994.

Marcel's description of the debris field doesn't really sound unlike balloon and radar reflector debris after you consider that some of the magical properties may also be embellishments, like the 7 different versions of the story.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Thanks for being the other "voice in the wilderness". It's tough fighting an uphill battle. Fortunately, the losers are not well equipped.

The shrike why have you always got to have a an underhand comment?

anyway the people you are calling loosers and under equipped have got more evidence this case was a cover up rather than a weather balloon so please explain what them bubbles coming out your mouth are chatting about

Originally posted by DisturbedToo
reply to post by The Shrike

 

Quote: The bundle of tinfoil, broken wood beams and rubber remnants of a balloon were sent here yesterday by army air transport in the wake of reports that it was a flying disk.

Really?....This is the most ridiculous part of the whole post! I'm laughing so hard I think i just peed myself!!!!!

Same here, utter Disinfo. really OP? Smoking Gun?

Hahahah

This sounds like the often "Smoking Gun Proof of ET" Threads we often see, containing basically nothing. This is a bold claim. The Roswell case will never be solved, over 60 years now, if the Military had just kept their foot out of their mouth and stuck to one explanation and had waited 60 years to find one then the Roswell story would have faded in to obscurity . But given acting like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar speaks volumes more, not sticks and foil, not test dummies.

It's not so much the evidence and testimony but how the Military handled this, how they changed the story and the bold face lies it told us is what says it was "something else"

Was it a Military experiment that is still of the most top secret importance? A technology that is still a secret? Did the Military intentionally make fools of themselves? I have to ask... I know something stinks about all this like the sewer. Was it ET? All those witnesses are saying it was otherwise? That is what it appears to be, we will never know.

This thread just Muddys the waters further imho.

Shrike

I think it was ET or some other source of higher intelligence, not a big deal if the idea is to sway opinion to fit your criteria then it falls short. You seem to focus too much on what you call nutters and loons in the UFO subject here than concentrate on research. That is if you actually want to look for the truth at all. Maybe you are just trying to reinforce your disbelief in the entire subject all together. That seems to be your modus operandi here. Just saying. Your intolerance for others beliefs and views undermines your plight. Who are the "losers" btw? You win nothing, this does not revolve around you and your ego "im right your wrong" childish mind set.

Just my 2 cents

reply to post by simples
I'm not calling anyone a loser because I was one of the people that didn't believe the weather balloon story before 1994. I knew it was a lie and that that there was a coverup.

And as it turns out, if the "official story" is true, I was right, there WAS a coverup and it WASN"T a weather balloon.

What I don't understand is people still saying "but it wasn't a weather balloon". Of course it wasn't, that was the cover story. The weather balloon was a single balloon with a single target and wouldn't leave much debris. The rancher Brazel knew that and had found a couple of them before. But this thing that crashed left too much debris to be a single weather balloon. but it still sounds like balloon debris when Marcel describes it.

So when the "official story" was changed in 1994 and they admitted the balloon wasn't a single weather balloon and it wasn't to check weather, it was a giant array of balloons with a listening device attached that had nothing to do with weather but related to detecting soviet atomic explosions, it made too much sense.

The reason I can understand why people like Brazel and Marcel would reject it being a weather balloon is because they knew what a weather balloon looked like, Brazel had found them before. I would have rejected the idea it was a weather balloon too if I found the debris, there was too much of it. I don't think that makes me, or Marcel an idiot as some people claim. I might have said "so what the heck is this thing, let's send it to wright field and have them analyze it." Why that doesn't make sense to some people escapes me, it makes perfect sense to me.

It seems perfectly logical to me that the people that found it didn't know what it was, because they knew it wasn't a weather balloon. And frankly, if it wasn't that, what else could it be?

So I don't think anyone who believed the weather balloon was just a cover story is a loser, I used to think that myself (and that was true). Pflock used to believe there was more to Roswell than we were being told too!

But the USAF 1994 explanation just fits the facts too perfectly. It explains the debris, the coverup, and most facts of the case except one....why they issued a press release saying they had found a flying disk. The newspaper articles of the time hay have answered that question (the rancher wondered if it was a disc, and perhaps the name stuck? "DISC" was even in quotes in the Ramey memo which to me supports the idea they called it what the rancher did even though according to Marcel there was no disc shape to the debris), but Marcel's interview years later revealed that what he found was tiny little pieces spread out and they weren't in the shape of a disc.

So Pflock is an ex-believer, I'm an ex-believer, and lots of people who used to believe there was a cover-up and were Roswell believers, have come to accept the Mogul explanation as the most likely. I don't think any of us were losers before 1994 because we were right, they really were hiding something with the weather balloon cover story, but it was a classified nuclear listening device, not an alien ship. Pflock went on to write a book about it.

i know this link isnt a mogul balloon but it is a weather balloon, it doesnt seem to come down the same way as witness reports states also how big is a mogul balloon to leave debris over i think it was three quarters of a mile and a 10ft wide gorge in the earth. i dont see this weather balloon doing that much damage or the time frame of five days to recover

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by The Shrike

It's too late. Whatever they said they saw has no bearing on anything because nothing can be proven from their comments.

And yet your entire thread was based on nothing but comments..

reply to post by backinblack


at the shrike sorry its not a childish game its a serious debate but had to get that in.

i never even thought of that i think the shrike has just been shot down like a flying disc oh no wait its more like a mogul balloon

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

So Pflock is an ex-believer, I'm an ex-believer, and lots of people who used to believe there was a cover-up and were Roswell believers, have come to accept the Mogul explanation as the most likely.

Too bad you did miss my earlier post here, because I had this question for you about your Mogul explanation.

reply to post by spacevisitor

Originally posted by spacevisitor

But may I ask what you think about the claim is that no strings or wires were to be found, because is it not so then that all the parts of a mogul balloon were hold together with strings or wires.

No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.

www.cufon.org...

So what is your view and explanation for that may I ask?

reply to post by spacevisitor
Hi spacevisitor, sorry I missed it before.

Here is an article that talks about some possible reasons why less than 100% of the Mogul flight 4 debris was found by Brazel:

The wayward journey of NYU project flight #4

Considering the amount of time the train was in the upper atmosphere, it seems that there would be a significant amount of balloons bursting during the end of the flight. When one examines the description of balloon debris by weight reported by Mack Brazel to the Roswell Daily Record, it seems that this was the case. According to Professor Moore, there was only enough material for three or four balloons. Flight #5 had 12 balloons intact when it landed and it fell at an average rate of 800-1000 feet per minute until it reached 25,000 feet. Assuming that some other balloons were intact to pull some of the upper train away from the Foster Ranch, the number of balloons left after the descent would have been less than a dozen. This is consistent with the rapid descent calculated by Moore. During the descent the train again resumed a northeast flight path as it passed back into the troposphere. This path took it into the vicinity of the Foster Ranch. Upon touching down, the train would have been dragged in a northeast direction scattering balloon and reflector material (as well as other items in the train such as parachutes, launching rings, etc) over a good size area. Once this ballast had been shed, the remaining balloons would have taken the remains of the train airborne and further to the northeast.

I suspect that's exactly what happened, that it was dragged on the ground, ripping the targets to shreds, shed some ballast, and became airborne again. There's no way to prove that's what happened, but it seems like a perfectly reasonable scenario to me.

That actually does sound like a reasonable explanation however just one floor in it if that was the case surely the government/military would of stated this and also they would of stated they had recovered the rest of it elsewhere or somebody would of reported finding the rest of the balloon elsewhere?? i dunno i am just presuming just my thought

reply to post by simples

Good question. It's a big barren desert out there with few inhabitants. The sun's UV radiation would attack many of the mogul components, some would last maybe a few weeks, and others maybe a few years, but if it wasn't found within that time there might not be enough left to recognize. Or maybe someone found it, thought it was a useless pile of junk and kept on going? Given the low population density in the desert, it wouldn't surprise me if nobody ever found it even if it was out there somewhere to be found. It also wouldn't surprise me if someone found it, and just ignored it. There's other junk in the desert too. One of the Roswell documentaries found some of it when they went looking for Roswell debris, it looked like a piece of plastic that had degraded so badly the original purpose was unrecognizable.

my guess is that the military would of been able to work out the trajectory of the object, wind speed and all that good stuff and they would of been able to calculate which direction the rest of the object went then it would of just been a matter of time before they found the rest of it through aircraft searching the possible flight path???

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by The Shrike

 

It's too late. Whatever they said they saw has no bearing on anything because nothing can be proven from their comments.

And yet your entire thread was based on nothing but comments..

Exactly

Little Eddie here (He has posted here as SkepticalEd also) does nothing but create threads where all of his evidence is hearsay. Then goes on to attack anyone who is against his belief by saying their evidence is all hearsay. According to him you can't use anything found in books or newspapers to provide anything, yet that's all he ever uses.

He purposely creates threads that he knows will anger others and goes on to do nothing but throw out insults left and right.

Let's wait and see if he takes another little vacation from posting like he did recently when others called him out on his idiotic little games. He tends to do that a lot.

He doesn't create threads to spark intelligent conversation. He does it to anger people and create arguments. Look at his posting history as The Shrike and SkepticalEd you can see it clear as day. He's the classic definition of what my signature is about. It's sad and pathetic really. Makes me almost feel sorry for him.

Almost

Oh and of course the updated explanation in 1994 would make more sense. They had more than enough time to come up with something better. Sorry, but how can soo many people in the military who saw the debris mistake it for a flying disc when it was a simple weather balloon that they should have been accustomed to?

Originally posted by simples
my guess is that the military would of been able to work out the trajectory of the object, wind speed and all that good stuff and they would of been able to calculate which direction the rest of the object went then it would of just been a matter of time before they found the rest of it through aircraft searching the possible flight path???

You may be right, but were they were determined to recover it?

How badly did they really want it, and why? Did they have enough manpower to conduct an intensive search for it and did they have a motive to do so?

I suspect if they knew where it was and it was convenient they would go get it, but I didn't see where recovering what was left was a high priority, especially if they already recovered the sonobuoy at the Foster Ranch.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


i understand that but surley after putting so much effort in to covering it up, all the armed guards, the storys and detaining brazel????? they would want every single last piece as there was not one scrap of evidence left on the ranch.

they had the manpower to do an extra search they had the army air force base just down the road let alone the whole government backing its a balloon im sure they would of dished out men willy nilly to keep the story that way?