Actual Roswell Newspaper Text - The "Smoking Gun" - NO UFO!

Originally posted by The Shrike
If there had been a real UFO crash, there is no way that it would have been kept secret

There was a UFO crash and they obviously could keep it secret due twisting all the facts and due threatening or transferring the key witnesses.

Originally posted by The Shrike

and from that day on our lives would have been changed.

That’s one of the reasons for why they put the lid on it, which I can even understand now.

Here another original source, which also even did hold some of the debris in his hands.
He talks for instance about the writing on some beams they found, they were unreadable, but they did look like Egyptian hieroglyphics.
But closer inspection it was not hieroglyphics, it is more like geometric symbols.
Is that not quite remarkable and very important?
Do you really think that they [the American military back then] would build/use weather balloons, or Mogul balloons or perhaps even party balloons with unreadable text on it?

Jesse Marcel Jr. talks about UFO Crash Debris in Roswell 2010

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Apparently Jesse Marcel and Irving Newton looked at the same material and Marcel thought it showed alien writing but Newton didn't. But their description of it being basically foil is consistent.

edit on 31-12-2010 by Arbitrageur because: fix tags

You do realize that Newton is only a witness to what was shown to him in Ramey's office, right? Now explain to me why you left that bit out.

reply to post by GBP/JPY


In 1999 at a beach in Virginia the whole crowd of people at the beach saw an oval shaped silver colored craft in the sky. A man standing near me while everyone was looking up said it was a weather balloon. I accepted his answer and watched it for a while then went for a swim. Recently it seems that I am coming across a lot of UFO information while looking for information or opinions on other subjects. Many searches somehow lead me right here to ATS lol. Anyway after reading the above posts I tabbed over to another screen and googled weather baloons and not one of them was silver and oval shaped. There was silver round or what you would think of as regular baloon shape (upside down teardrop shape) but there were no oval or saucer shaped baloons in the photos that I found. So now I'm wondering if I saw a UFO. It certainly was unidentified by me. Locals here in coastal Virginia (Hampton Roads surrounded by military) say that UFO's are seen frequently in this area . Just another one of those things that make you go hmmmmm.

reply to post by Peloquin


First I would never have guessed that english was a second language for you. Well done. Some who claim english as their only language have less of a grip on it than you do.
Second I agree with you on the way a baloon would fall from the sky, especially if it is carrying equipment of any kind of weight. Straight down and not at 400-500 mph although from the ground its hard to tell the speed of any moving object in the sky. A horizontal decent would not be logical. A few years ago I saw an object in the sky over Va beach and most of the people standing around looking up at this thing did not know what it was. A man standing near me on the beach said it was a weather baloon and not knowing any better I accepted what he said and have done so for many years. Today after this discussion I googled weather baloon photos and none that I saw resembled the object I saw over the beach that day. This thing was oval shaped and shiny silver in color. The weather baloons are( for want of a better term ) baloon shaped. (kind of an upside down teardrop) and what saw that day was oval or saucer shaped.

reply to post by The Shrike


Here is a few questions that comes from a good little read of a website that The Flash pointed out to us.

Text-If the debris originated from a top-secret test, why was there no recovery or search operation underway until rancher Mac Brazel reported the debris to Sheriff George Wilcox one day after the find on Sunday, July 6? An aerial search over open range and high desert would have taken but a few hours to locate any downed object. This has been confirmed by retired military officers, who were involved in actual search-and-rescue missions in New Mexico. We, too, have flown private planes over the Brazel site demonstrating the panoramic field of vision. Given that the debris field was three-quarters of a mile long, a search and recovery team could have located it long before Brazel did.

- Weather balloons had fallen onto Brazel’s ranch on a number of occasions, and he turned them in for the rewards offered. Such devices always carried instructions and return policies which usually included the name of the manufacturer and location of the launch site. In 1945, he reported finding the remains of a Japanese balloon bomb. This time, however, he reportedly was angry because of the large amount of debris. His frightened sheep would not cross the pasture due to the vast coverage of the material. It is interesting to note that weather balloons are still dropping on the ranch. The current owners store them in an old feed storage silo. One particularly large balloon, about 20 feet in diameter, took one man approximately two minutes to retrieve. He had no trouble identifying it.

- After personally examining samples of the material, why did Brazel’s neighbors encourage him to report the crash for the $3,000 reward reported by the press for physical evidence of a flying disc and not for the standard $5 balloon reward?

- How did the highly trained and experienced military officers of the famous 509th atomic bomb wing, the first and only nuclear strike force in the world at that time, mistake a conventional weather instrument for an object they all, without exception, concluded to be an actual “flying saucer?” Skeptics who believe that it was a special radar-reflecting balloon from Project Mogul have said that the civilians, the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, the head of intelligence, Marcel, and all the other officers at Roswell were unfamiliar with such specialized equipment. Marcel, however, had a radar interpretation officer assigned to his office. He would have been able to recognize the balloon, even if the others were fooled. Even considering Mogul, balloon materials consisting of Neoprene rubber, reflective foil, wooden sticks, masking tape, and balling twine still comprised such a device—materials easily identifiable by even a child.

- What type of balloon and instrument package could scatter debris over an area three-quarters of a mile long and create a 500-foot long/10-foot wide gouge in the tough high desert country of New Mexico which consists of little topsoil and mostly shale and slate stone?

- What type of balloon would fill Marcel’s 1942 Buick convertible, and Cavitt’s jeep carryall truck and still require 50 to 60 troops with wheelbarrows and trucks two days to complete the cleanup?

- Why did the military check the site for possible radiation if the downed object was nothing more than a common weather/Mogul balloon? After he was found at the home of Walt Whitmore Sr., majority owner of radio station KGFL in Roswell, on the morning of Tuesday, July 8, why was Brazel held in detention at the base for another seven days? According to Brazel, he was not allowed to place any outside calls, not even to his wife. He was also forced to undergo a physical examination. His family and neighbors remember how he later complained how he had been asked the same questions “over and over again,” and that he described the experience by saying he “was in jail.”

Roswell: 52 Years of Unanswerd Questions

Let it be noted also that the weather balloon project that the gov claims that this crash was was classified yes but the MATERIALS used for the construction of this balloon was NOT classified. So why the big deal?

If you want to hear all the FACTS and read the best thread in ATS period on this matter then click here, grab some popcorn and get ready for a really good read.

The truth is out there people, once you do enough research you will come to realize that truth. And let me tell you it is sometimes a strange feeling knowing what so many people do not even wish to seek. God bless those little sheep people.


-Alien

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
Here is a few questions that comes from a good little read of a website that The Flash pointed out to us.

- After personally examining samples of the material, why did Brazel’s neighbors encourage him to report the crash for the $3,000 reward reported by the press for physical evidence of a flying disc and not for the standard $5 balloon reward?”

Those questions really aren't that hard to answer if you do a little research and logical thinking.

Since 1994, pretty much everyone agrees there was more material than a standard weather balloon, so it wasn't a standard weather balloon, though that was the cover story the USAF gave from 1947-1993 and it's why we all knew there was a conspiracy to cover up what was really found, until 1994.

So you've got something that crashed and it's not a weather balloon, so why would you seek a weather balloon reward for $5 when you might be able to get a $3000 reward for what was obviously some kind of larger flying object that fell from the sky? Um, because $3000 is more than $5 and you know it's not a weather balloon?

I'm sorry but that really has to be one of the dumbest questions I've ever seen in my life.

reply to post by Peloquin


Very simply, the Wilmots alleged to have witnessed something and they describe what they saw. But their description is not the last word. Actually, their testimony creates questions.

1)Is what they allege to have seen an actual UFO?
2)Could it have been a natural atmospheric object?
3)How qualified were they to judge height and speed accurately?
4)Was their location agreeable with where the balloon train was found?
5)Would a balloon train make a swishing noise as the various components were moving with or agains the wind?
6)Could 2 different events take place not connected to each other?

Inquisitive minds want to know!

Originally posted by TheFlash
If you really believe that it was just a 'weather balloon' that was recovered in Roswell in 1947 then you should review the information at the Web site below and answer the questions toward the bottom of the page for us. I would sure like answers to those questions.

Roswell Link

I don't particularly feel like answering every question that is created when every answer can be found with dilligent research. However, I will offer the following from the site that you included the link to and it speaks volumes:
"As you can well imagine, it has not been an easy task to reconstruct what actually occurred in July of 1947. Many of the men (and the few women) involved are now dead, and those living are quite elderly. Human memory does not record events with complete accuracy, especially after years have elapsed."

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Well, that’s really a good advice, therefore it’s also good to listen very carefully to what this man say about it.
(snip)
1984 Interview with Major Jesse Marcel sr.
(snip)

I did not watch that particular video because I've seen documentaries, many years ago, where Marcel Sr. was interviewed and you could see that he was supplying the info that reporters love to hear. His manner gave him away. So what does Pflock reveal about him? How's this from page 177, bottom paragraph and edited by me as far as jumping to another paragraph to complete a thought. But you can always read the in-between dialog.

"In his December 1979 interview with reporter Bob Pratt and in numerous other interviews later, Marcel provided a good deal of rather impressive background information on himself. For example: He claimed to hold a bachelor's degree in physics from George Washington University, obtained after attending five other universities. ... Researcher Robert Todd obtained Marcel's complete military personnel file ... and checked it and other sources to see if he could confirm what Marcel had said about himself. Among other things, Todd found that not only did George Washington University not have a record of granting Marcel a dregree, it had nothing in its files showing he had even attentded GWU. Todd also discovered that on the "Classification Questionnaire for Reserve Officers" Marcel filed out in February 1942 as part of his application for appointment as an army air corps reserve officer, he claimed to have attended Louisiana State University for a year as a special student taking non-credit courses. A check with LSU turned up no record of Marcel's attendance.
...
"Obviously, Marcel had a tendency to embellish his personal history. In addition, according to his efficiency report (performance review) for the period July 1, 1947 to April 30, 1948 - during which time the Roswell affair unfolded - his "only known weakness" was noted as "an inclination to magnify problems he is confronted with."

Nothing earth-shattering but it goes towards accepting anything he said as possibly so and possibly not so. I just touched the surface, there's lots more.

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by Peloquin

 

Very simply, the Wilmots alleged to have witnessed something and they describe what they saw. But their description is not the last word. Actually, their testimony creates questions.

1)Is what they allege to have seen an actual UFO?
2)Could it have been a natural atmospheric object?
3)How qualified were they to judge height and speed accurately?
4)Was their location agreeable with where the balloon train was found?
5)Would a balloon train make a swishing noise as the various components were moving with or agains the wind?
6)Could 2 different events take place not connected to each other?

Inquisitive minds want to know!

Hi Shrike, first of all, a happy new year! (in Germany, we're already in 2011)

In respons to your questions:

1) For them, for sure it was an U.F.O.. If it had been a wheater balloon, I'm pretty sure they'd been able to recognize it as such; of course they could have recognized it as balloon-like. But, according to the records, they didn't describe it as balloon-like.

2) Of course it could have been a natural atmospheric object. It could have been a meteorite. But if this would have been the case (or temperature inversions like in Washington D.C. in 1952 ;-) ), than I'd assume, the Air Force would have brought up that possibility long ago...

3) I'd guess, they were as qualified as every average Joe. But I'd assume, that they were able to estimate, if the thing was moving slow or not. And Mr. Wilmot said, it's height was not more than 1.500 feet. That's not much. Should enable you to seperate a balloon from something else...

4) That's a question I can't answer, but maybe the records can answer that.

5) I have no idea, but I'd say if it was a balloon, and if it made such a noise, there should have been very strong winds that day, because without strong winds, I doubt there would have been such a noise.

6) Possibly, 2 different events could have taken place that day. First, a weather balloon that downed, and second a downed craft not built on earth, wittnessed by Mr. and Mrs. Wilmot ;-)

Originally posted by Peloquin
Hi Shrike, first of all, a happy new year! (in Germany, we're already in 2011)
(snip)
In respons to your questions:

1) For them, for sure it was an U.F.O.. If it had been a wheater balloon, I'm pretty sure they'd been able to recognize it as such; of course they could have recognized it as balloon-like. But, according to the records, they didn't describe it as balloon-like.

2) Of course it could have been a natural atmospheric object. It could have been a meteorite. But if this would have been the case (or temperature inversions like in Washington D.C. in 1952 ;-) ), than I'd assume, the Air Force would have brought up that possibility long ago...

3) I'd guess, they were as qualified as every average Joe. But I'd assume, that they were able to estimate, if the thing was moving slow or not. And Mr. Wilmot said, it's height was not more than 1.500 feet. That's not much. Should enable you to seperate a balloon from something else...

4) That's a question I can't answer, but maybe the records can answer that.

5) I have no idea, but I'd say if it was a balloon, and if it made such a noise, there should have been very strong winds that day, because without strong winds, I doubt there would have been such a noise.

6) Possibly, 2 different events could have taken place that day. First, a weather balloon that downed, and second a downed craft not built on earth, wittnessed by Mr. and Mrs. Wilmot ;-)

edit on 31/12/10 by Peloquin because: (no reason given)

Happy New Year to you also, Peloquin. You beat us to it! When we lived in Los Angeles, we moved there in 1978 from New York City, my wife and I were sort-of jealous that we had to wait 3 hours to celebrate and it was already old news in NYC. Now were back in NYC and YOU beat us to it! We were in Times Square last night for dinner and it was a madhouse already. I was going to go back to Times Square tonight but fuggedaboutit! We'll watch it on TV, nice 'n' warm in our living room.

We do not have any other choice than to accept their testimony, flawed or not.
Yes, the army air force failed to publicly address natural atmospheric phenomena.
I cannot accept anyone's description of height seriously unless they are in the aviation business. The average
person, me included of course, has no idea how high a certain height is. There are airplanes, helicopters,
blimps, birds, flying over us at all heights and I have no idea how to gauge they high they are. They're either,
low, high, or very high.
I'd have to speak with an experienced person that had heard what a balloon train "sounds like" when in the air.
I accept a balloon train that downed but until evidence is found I cannot accept crashed UFOs.

reply to post by The Shrike



You know... I have heard you and other skeptic argue the existance of UFO's and shoot down believers threads and opinions, but how come I never see you or you compadres in threads that have some serious issues?

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the New World Order
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Secret of Money Revealed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I always wondered about that... I guess its safer in the UFO/Alien forum huh?

i was under the impression that the roswell incident had more to do with japanese suicide "balloon bombers" then with space crafts and outerspace creatures

"alien", yes to some degree and u.f.o´s, yes but very man made.

cant recall by name who it was but i think it was explained at a summit that the real reason for the cover up was not to alarm or panic the public in general about these stray suicide balloons filled with nukes to biological agents,

could be im mistaking and mixing stories up ,

Originally posted by zorgon
reply to post by The Shrike

 

You know... I have heard you and other skeptic argue the existance of UFO's and shoot down believers threads and opinions, but how come I never see you or you compadres in threads that have some serious issues?

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the New World Order
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Secret of Money Revealed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I always wondered about that... I guess its safer in the UFO/Alien forum huh?

I'm pretty confident that you will not be able to quote me arguing the existence of UFOs. It's an impossibility as I've had 6 superb sightings and videotaped one. So could I shoot down anyone's acceptance of them? I do shoot down claims of the reality of aliens because all you got to work with is hearsay regardless of how extensive a report may be.

There is no New World Order, it's as old as the Hills (UFO abduction pun there).

The secret of money is that you ought to try to make it as perfect as possible so that it passes close inspection!

Originally posted by zerbot565
i was under the impression that the roswell incident had more to do with japanese suicide "balloon bombers" then with space crafts and outerspace creatures

"alien", yes to some degree and u.f.o´s, yes but very man made.

cant recall by name who it was but i think it was explained at a summit that the real reason for the cover up was not to alarm or panic the public in general about these stray suicide balloons filled with nukes to biological agents,

could be im mistaking and mixing stories up ,

Nah, there has been at least one TV documentary showing as much about those balloons as can be known. A kid found one in Northwest woods, I think, and paid with his life 'cause it was still armed but with explosives. They showed what they look like and they didn't have the kind of components found at the Foster Ranch by "Mac" Brazel and the army personnel.

Originally posted by zorgon
reply to post by The Shrike

 

You know... I have heard you and other skeptic argue the existance of UFO's and shoot down believers threads and opinions, but how come I never see you or you compadres in threads that have some serious issues?

The Complete Idiot's Guide to the New World Order
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Secret of Money Revealed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I always wondered about that... I guess its safer in the UFO/Alien forum huh?

It's what he does best.

Anyone remember the user SkepticalEd? Search for him here on ATS and you'll see how he constantly attacked others and created a thread that got a lot of people riled up. Not long after that thread, he didn't post for a while. Now he's back as The Shrike.

Get used to threads like this. One of his calling cards is to bait believers into his threads and attack them when they use anything he considers hearsay as evidence (which was pretty anything he believes is wrong). He would go after people who would reference books and articles a lot. Yet here he is trying to use a newspaper as evidence of his claims. It's fine when he does it, but don't you dare do the same or you're wrong.

Just want to warn others before being pulled in by what he does. Called him out on this in another thread. Don't know if he denies being little Eddie or not, but if he does, just want to remind him that he has posted his name in one thread (SkepticalEd's name) and also linked to a YouTube video and referred to it as his (video was uploaded by SkepticalEd).

Don't let him bait you all into his threads. Nothing good comes out of them but constant arguing and insults/attacks from him. Look at most of his replies in here and you'll see he can't reply without being insulting.

Originally posted by nightmare_david
Don't know if he denies being little Eddie or not, but if he does, just want to remind him that he has posted his name in one thread (SkepticalEd's name) and also linked to a YouTube video and referred to it as his (video was uploaded by SkepticalEd).

Nah he told us Even showed us a picture of himself in a James Bond like suit. He also was very proud of causing a fuss at a UFO convention and getting kicked out.

Originally posted by The Shrike
It doesn't matter what name I post under I'm always going to attract the mentally unstable-conditioned-believer, etc. I changed my handle from Skeptical Ed, although it's a true representation, because just by the name the usual anal cavities were ignoring topics and attacking me because of the name I chose. I'm still me. I've been and still am a great debunker. I've proven it. I'm the only person on record (newspaper article with large color photo of me!) to have been physically ejected from a UFO lecture in the 1980s. I'm proud of what I've done. Someone has to go after the scammers/hoaxers. I do with style. Call me whatever you want it's like water off a duck's back. I'm an open-minded skeptic, I'm a debunker. I'm a class act. See photo, below.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9015a7cbc05d.jpg[/atsimg]

From this thread he got the dreaded "hoax' tag for
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So yeah we know

Originally posted by nightmare_david
(snip)

Yet you can't stay away 'cause you know that with my threadss you are going to learn something. How about you stop wasting your time, and ours, by not bothering to visit my threads or commenting on my comments? How cool would that be if you were to do something logical, for a change?

Originally posted by zorgon
(snip)
From this thread he got the dreaded "hoax' tag for

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So yeah we know

Yeah, Zorgon, we got members such as the one you responded to that should stay away from anything with The Shrike attached to it and then there are the supporters such as who commented on the thread you supplied the link to:

TedHodgson
Solid Content Contributor
Member

reply to post by HopeHoldingFast
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right as a reasearcher, ill be the first to give this guy a flag because hes putting evidence out there so to speak, i may not support the evidence but afterall we are all searcing for the truth.
So! Flag and star foir you sir! for posting this, In the future, with more evidence sir but overall continue and eventually youll find something that no one else has found and the world wil be changed through your research Shrike continue the good work

The ball just dropped in Times Square and Dick Clark looks great and we can hear the fireworks from our living room! Happy New Year everybody!
Here, Zorgon, a "gift" to you and everyone else who wants 3 minutes of pure fun featuring me and the missus:
Linda & Eddie Stump The Band On The Tonight Show With Johnny Carson 1973
www.youtube.com...

The Al Brodak that Linda mentions is the producer of the film "YELLOW SUBMARINE"!

reposnse to the thread on Roswell by The Flash:

Yeah excellent piece of work, what a great read and some of those questions leave it out there but then like the man says, its very circumstantial.

I can imagine that if you were involved and saw the lengths the government went to to quieten people even after 50 years you would stand by the Official Secrets Act, especially if you had kids and grand kids.