reply to post by gladtobehere
You seem to be saying that Judaism and Zionism are similar. Then you say isn't it necessary to make a distinction between the two. Are you saying
that it is or isn't necessary to make a distinction? Are they the same? I cant tell by your question.
I did make a distinction. Maybe not clearly enough.
Judaism is religious and based on a religious tradition that is firmly rooted in the land of Israel. Unlike other traditions, Judaism alone is unique
in that a particular place on earth in the paradigm in which the perform their 'comamndments' of Torah in a society governed by the Biblical Law of
Moses.
Secular zionism is a deliberate perversion of this original and ancient Jewish destiny and instead bases itself soley on cultural and ethnic
considerations. Only "ethnic" Jews can live in Israel. The entire assumption is illopgical. Why should Jews have to live In Israel in a secular
modern world if they share the same attitude and philosophy as everyone else. Thus, even insisting that Jews require their own state based on nothing
more than ethnicity is an insulting and inflammatory idea that definitely irks the egalitarian sensitivities of todays people.
Conversely, If a Jewish state is NOT based on ethnciity, but on Judaism (which means anyone can convert) than it has nothing at all to do with race,
but everything to do with lifestyle and religious philosophy. Judaism and the dream of Judaism to establish a Jewish kingdom in the land of Israel IS
Zionism.
Secular zionism (if you arent acquainted with this distinction, you have alot to read up on) is the complete antithesis of Judaism. It is paganism
essentially wrapped up in a very thin Jewish garb (which the uneducated and historically daft dont seem to notice)
The idea of a "promised land" is religion specific, specific to Jews. We are constantly bombarded with decries of Muslims allegedly pushing their
religion and "Sharia Law" onto the entire planet.
Sharia law is completely different. Sharia law is IMPOSED on NON Muslims socieities. Jewish law does not affect non Jews and is only binding on Jews.
Also, any reasonable person can see that Jewish law is koolaid compared to the radical ideology of Sharia Law. Go up to an observant Jewish woman and
ask her and she'll tell you. Jewish wives are cherished by their husbands and children.
Lets first agree that the beliefs of any one religion (or any belief system for that matter) should not be forced upon anyone else. Regardless of
whether its Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, or the new "Green religion" etc.
Thats a good thing to agree upon.
That having been said, the Jews do not have a "right" to any land no more than Muslims have a "right" to enforce their religious beliefs on any
other group.
I dont see how your former statement served to point out anything here. Jews by virtue of their having been forcibally removed 1800 years ago by the
romans their non-stop spiritual longing to return, grants them every right to take it from arabs who in anycase were nomads that didnt settle in any
one area (especially during the 17 and 1800s. For instance, Mark Twain said Israel was a parched desolate land when he had visited).
For example. Here is an article from the Jewish newspaper Haaretz quoting Yaakov Teitel, a West Bank rabbi, who said that Jews can kill Gentiles
including babies and children, but I guess it wouldnt be ok to "kill Jews"?:
If taht is true, that is certainly not a Jewish belief. Jews are not allowed by any means to kill anyone. Its a law of the Torah - "thou shalt not
kill". Neither Gentile or animal. Do not kill - needlessly(that is, for food you may kill certain kosher animals). Its also a Noahide law - a law
applicable to non Jews that "thou shalt not kill". The only time killing is permitted is when you know someone is coming to kill you; than you are
required to go out and kill him first. This is basic logic and self defense. These sort of anecdotal arguments arent gonna help yopu prove your point.
Also, in Israel, HaArets has a reputation for being the single most manipulative mendacious newspaper perhaps on the face of planet earth. Nobody
respects a single thing from HaAretz. Its pure propaganda Haaretz. Ive already described a paradigm of a secular zionism and religious Zionism. The
secularists pretty much own all the newspaper in Israel because surprise surprise - Israel is one of the few countries in the "western world" where
the state owns the media. The only privatized Newsource in Israel is ArutzSheva (7 news) and Ynet. Everything else is state owned and so pushes state
propaganda - in this case, defamatory stories about Orthodox Judaism which they brand "ultra".
Example of some of the many Jews who not only have an issue with Zionism but with the state of izrael itself:
Jews like that are in the minority like 5-10% range. Not very influential. And frankly its actually quite hard not to just lash out on them. Their
helping Israels enemies by imagining Judaism isnt a land centered religion. Thats why only 1 out of 20 pay attention to the. And an even smaller
number actively protests against Israel.
Real religious zionists are more than bothered by their vacuity.
Their used to being in Exile. Tell me. how normal is it for Jews to live as they do like this forever? Its not normal, and frankly i dont think the
nations of the world - the Nazis - the UN are gonna tolerate a "insular" and "divisive" presence like orthodox Jews in their New World Order.
So they should really think about that, these Jews who protest Israel. They arent safe here. Just like the Jews who were warned in pre-holocaust
Germany that they werent safe there.
But the music plays very loudly and unless youre grounded you can be swept up in the rapture.
