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still think chemtrails are not real?

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posted on Jan, 13 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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/FACEPALM

Oh god, not another person claiming that small general aviation airplanes, used inside of thunderstorms and snowstorms, and flown on precipitation enhancement projects for power companies and state water agencies, are making huge trails across the blue sky.

What part of CLOUD seeding do you people not get. Its done INSIDE of rain/snow storms.

What part of small general aviation aircraft like Piper Seneca and Cessna 340, that weight about the same as a sedan or truck, can not possibly carry enough stuff to make those huge trails, do you not get either. They are already not far from gross weight with full fuel and two pilots. Now you think they can carry all this magical stuff to make massive trails.

I mean if a 747 dumping water goes through it in about 10-20 seconds, then how is a small twin engine Piper, Cessna or Beech going to make a trail across the sky?

Aviation and airplanes are really not that freaking hard to understand. But apparently for some people it is


edit on 13-1-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 





I mean if a 747 dumping water goes through it in about 10-20 seconds, then how is a small twin engine Piper, Cessna or Beech going to make a trail across the sky? Aviation and airplanes are really not that freaking hard to understand. But apparently for some people it is


LOL, the comedy continues. If aviation and airplanes are so easy for you to understand then I am surprised that you seem to struggle comprehending the very basic difference between dumping WATER and spraying PRESSURISED AEROSOL!!!

If you didn't spend so much time playing with paper aeroplanes in chemistry class you might have learnt something. Ever used a can of fly spray or spray paint? What is your scientific explanation for these general household items, Magic?

Once you've figured that out you will be ready to tackle bigger questions like - How does your car get so far on that small tank of gas? Where does all that smoke come from at the nightclub? and just to keep things interesting for you, How can the do all that sky writing with such a small plane?

When was the last time you saw a skywriting company with an A380 full of paint in their hanger? me either.

But hey, we shouldn't let basic science and elements get in the way of this airplane knowledge of yours. I love the comedic timing and condescending tone with which it is always delivered. Keep up the good work.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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Pressurized aerosol? Do you even know what you are talking about. Aerosols are particulate matter, like dust. And you totally sidestepped the issue of weight too. Just because you have a system that is pressurized, does not mean a Piper Seneca can now magically carry millions of tons of something at 35000 ft..

Do you actually think these small general aviation type airplanes, can somehow still carry enough matter to make huge trails across the sky? And you also skipped how they are not flown across blue skies, but are used to seed inside of clouds for snowfall and rain projects. You can even watch them on flightaware.com too. But that actually requires chemtrailers to leave conspiracy websites and look at something in reality.

Maybe a some aviation knowledge would go a ways in keeping some of you from making ludicrious statements. I I think we need to keep a list of those zany Chemtrailer hjiinks!
edit on 14-1-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Dude, stop acting like you are the god of aviation. You obviously don't know sh*t when it comes to common sense. Really, you don't need to be an expert in aviation to see a god damn chemtrail.
Open your closed ass mind and practice what you preach by actually viewing and going over other evidence besides the evidence of contrails which actually have nothing to do with Chemtrails.
You are really a deluded individual if you really know as much as you claim to know about aviation and can't see that Chemtrails exist.
....Christ.....get it through your thick skull



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by firepilot
 


Dude, stop acting like you are the god of aviation. You obviously don't know sh*t when it comes to common sense. Really, you don't need to be an expert in aviation to see a god damn chemtrail.
Open your closed ass mind and practice what you preach by actually viewing and going over other evidence besides the evidence of contrails which actually have nothing to do with Chemtrails.
You are really a deluded individual if you really know as much as you claim to know about aviation and can't see that Chemtrails exist.
....Christ.....get it through your thick skull


So, riddle me this. How is it that there are ZERO professional pilots, or even general aviation pilots, that believe in this chemtrail garbage, and they are the ones who spend far more time out flying, and actually looking around. Are you saying that every pilot out there is deluded, and only these super vigilant chemtrail believers, that by somehow knowing nothing about meterology or aviation, somehow are the ones who know the real truth?

Deluded? I bet you would not tell crazy rainbow lady she is deluded, or the woman in that video who claims new cloud types were invented to cover up chemtrails, or those who claim disappearing airplanes, or UFOs flown by Reptilians are involved, or who believe in Magical Slyphs that eat the chemtrails



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


ZERO professional pilots?? PROVE IT!
You can't. So stfu.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by firepilot
Pressurized aerosol? Do you even know what you are talking about. Aerosols are particulate matter, like dust. And you totally sidestepped the issue of weight too. Just because you have a system that is pressurized, does not mean a Piper Seneca can now magically carry millions of tons of something at 35000 ft..

Do you actually think these small general aviation type airplanes, can somehow still carry enough matter to make huge trails across the sky? And you also skipped how they are not flown across blue skies, but are used to seed inside of clouds for snowfall and rain projects. You can even watch them on flightaware.com too. But that actually requires chemtrailers to leave conspiracy websites and look at something in reality.

Maybe a some aviation knowledge would go a ways in keeping some of you from making ludicrious statements. I I think we need to keep a list of those zany Chemtrailer hjiinks!
edit on 14-1-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)


I'm not even going to bother attempting to explain how ridiculous your argument is. I leave you to your aviation 'reality' where apparently pigs really do fly.



posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


Speaking of "vitriol" (was from the other thread you just posted in, a plea from THAT OP to tone it down).....

In the course of several weeks on this "topic", many many resources have been offered by those of us who KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, in an effort to educate and illustrate for those who, sadly, have been wallowing in the ignorance spewed by the various "chemtrail" purveyors that abound and infest the InterWebz lately....


  • FlightAware ---- (for live updates of actual flights IIN YOUR AREA)
  • Radiosonde upper atmosphere readings ---- (for obvious real-world data comparisons)
  • The Appleman Chart (of contrail formation prediction)


    Furthermore, it has been explained at great length the infrastructure implausibility as conceived and "imagined" by those "chemtrailers". AS TO the actual lofting and flying that they propose is "happening".

    Further still, besides the infrastructure (and by that, I mean the ground support) are the REAL-WORLD limitations of pilots and aircraft availability, and time limits.

    It is so obvious to THOSE OF US WHO ARE IN THE INDUSTRY....because we understand the obstacles, from a technical and operational standpoint, to these fanciful "chemtrail" claims. They just ARE NOT PRACTICAL, NOR PLAUSIBLE, as "described" by these people, ("chemtrailers") and their websites who.....well, who just make this crap up in order to generate interest and traffic TO their sites.........



  • posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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    reply to post by weedwhacker
     


    Well if your brain can't comprehend how to do something like that then you suck. It IS PRACTICAL AND PLAUSIBLE.

    Just because your close minded little brain can't see how it could be done doesn't mean it can't exist and IS happening.
    edit on 14-1-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)

    edit on 14-1-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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    reply to post by dplum517
     


    EXCUSE ME????


    Let's compare experience levels, here....shall we??? But first, I am responding to this:


    It IS PRACTICAL AND PLAUSIBLE.


    "It" being the assertion of "chemtrails"? Yes??


    Just because yur close minded little brain can't see how it could be done ...


    Well...my "close minded little brain" compared to YOUR experience in the real world??

    Comparing....(well, I can't, actually, since I DO NOT KNOW YOU....however, you can compare in your own mind):

    I have been flying airplanes for nearly 40 years. (How does THAT "compare" to your experience?).

    OUT OF those nearly 40 years....the last 23+ were with a MAJOR passenger airline, here within the United States. (AND, an airline that has MANY International destinations as well...in fact, is noted as such).

    The intervening years were ALL part of my learning, and more learning....and even MORE learning, and experience building. IT is HOW IT WORKS in this field. (It is NOT dissimilar to the medical profession, in that sense).

    I must ask...what is YOUR "expertise" and vast knowledge base (of "life experience") that YOU draw upon????

    You have been GIVEN many tools to utilize.....it is only up to YOU to wield them.....



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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    reply to post by weedwhacker
     


    You are excused. Leave at anytime.

    Until you give me your name and the company then you are full of sh*t. I am related to people who have been pilots for the air force and airliners for over 30 years who have the opposite opinion of YOU.

    So spare me your "holier than thou" crap and get off your high horse. You DO NOT know everything.

    Since I know you love to hear this I will say it again.
    You are only confirming that you indeed are a DISINFO agent.



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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    Yes, I still think they're not real, and I was confirmed in that opinion by reading this thread.

    Kucinich already has explained in extenso what his motivation for this bill was, and it has nothing to do with anyone believing that these things are currently operational. It was to forever prevent a new arms race in space - something that surely failed, just like the bill did. Anyone can google that.

    Contextualization plus reading skills are all you need :-)

    Another non-smoking smokin gun.



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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    reply to post by dplum517
     



    Asking such things??? Well outside the confines of this site's parameters....however, I will comply with a few:


    Until you give me your name and the company then you are full of sh*t.



    Are you TRYING to be banned???

    No, only those who are affiliated with this site are required to actually post their true identities. I would think you realize WHY this is so?

    However.....the "company"? Thought that would have been obvious, by now. ANYONE who knows me, in my three+ years on site, knows (or as intuited) that it is CONTINENTAL AIRLINES. (I can say that now.....as the merger is nearly done.....).

    There are AT LEAST TWO Moderators who ALSO have worked for the same company....and THEY verify my bona fides.

    My date of hire was June 1984, at CAL. Today, as I type, it is January 2011. DO the math. (I will NOT tell you my actual age, as that is beyond the scope of this....you may infer as you wish, however....).



    I am related to people who have been pilots for the air force and airliners for over 30 years who have the opposite opinion of YOU.


    Oh, indeed?? I would be OVERJOYED to converse with those "people"....

    "pilots for the airforce and airliners" do you say????

    "related to" do you say???


    AND, in all those "relations".....well....invite them here....I would LOVE to converse.....



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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    reply to post by weedwhacker
     


    Sorry but no, I don't even want to converse with you because you are so illogical, so I def would not introduce you to my relatives. Not to mention they are now retired and don't really do the internet thing as it is after their generation.
    Banned?? For what?? asking your name??

    Again, even if you did work for an airline, that does not make you some god of aviation and know it all. There is something called a "Chain of Command." Or "Need to Know." So duh, of course you don't know everything about aviation and what planes are in the sky at all times and what they are doing. And, neither do I, thank god I have common sense though.



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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    The Chemtrail Conspiracy has not been debunked. Not Even Close. I am a Pilot. I have personally witnessed suspicious flights and aircraft behavior that has yet to be explained. In fact it is utterly impossible to disprove the possibility of a chemtrail conspiracy. In order to do so you would need to be omnipotent and have full access to all top-secret government and private sector programs. In fact the chemtrail conspiracy can only be proved or continually discussed.

    Here are some important threads and info I think you will all find helpful and informative.

    ATS: Chemtrails: US Patent #5003186: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding For Reduction Of Global Warming

    ATS: Chemtrails Are "Small Reflecting Particles" In The Upper Atmosphere

    Cryptogon: Council On Foreign Relations (CFR): Council on Foreign Relations on Planetary Geoengineering: “Add more small reflecting particles in the upper part of the atmosphere”

    Global Warming and Ice Ages: Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change.

    The Chemtrail Smoking Gun

    "In Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases conclusion, the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) found that the most effective global warming mitigation turned out to be the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet's albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere."



    My Chemtrail Research was also featured on ATS News with Johnny Anonymous...
    ATS News 04: US Defense Contractor Owns Chemtrail Patent!

    (click to open player in new window)


    I have been called a chemtrailer. I am a chemtrailer and proud of it! That is like calling someone who thinks there is a JFK assassination conspiracy a 'JFKer'.

    I have been debating this issue with the regular anti-chemtrailers who fight the very existence of a debate with suspicious zealotry. They have yet to disprove or debunk. I have answered and countered any chemtrail question and will be happy to provide guidance and debate anyone here on the issue.
    edit on (1/14/11) by AllSeeingI because: code



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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    Originally posted by AllSeeingI
    I am a Pilot.


    INDEED??? This is NEWS to me, in all the months you've been posting here on ATS.

    Please, elaborate on your number of hours, ratings and such (I am assuming a U.S.-based pilot?) If foreign, I will still be able to compare.

    FOR THE RECORD.....I (in the U.S.) soloed in 1973. I earned my Private Pilot Certificate a year later (as life got in the way) in 1974. My Commercial/Instrument followed shortly after. ONCE getting my Commercial (and, meanwhile the multi-engine rating) ---- and building a bit of time along the way, I went for my CFI (Certified Flight Instructor). Along the way (AND, the written test is very similar) I obtained my GROUND INSTRUCTOR rating as well. The CFI is more involved, of course....building MORE time and eventually (minimum is 2,500 hours) got the ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) Rating. It is really just a demonstration of skill.....assumed to be necessary for, ultimately, the ultimate role....it's far more complicated, though...).

    .....But, after spending several years TEACHING, went to what was ultimate goal......flying passengers for pay, as a career....NOT just "teaching" (although....really.....you are "learning" all the time, regardless....).





    I have personally witnessed suspicious flights and aircraft behavior that has yet to be explained.


    Please elaborate. I (and others) are ALL ears and eyes.....in order to learn from YOUR personal experiences...


    Here are some important threads and info I think you will all find helpful and informative.

    ATS: Chemtrails: US Patent #5003186: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding For Reduction Of Global Warming

    ATS: Chemtrails Are "Small Reflecting Particles" In The Upper Atmosphere

    Cryptogon: Council On Foreign Relations (CFR): Council on Foreign Relations on Planetary Geoengineering: “Add more small reflecting particles in the upper part of the atmosphere”

    Global Warming and Ice Ages: Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change.


    Forgive me but.......ALL have been explained.




    The Chemtrail Smoking Gun

    "In Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases conclusion, the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) found that the most effective global warming mitigation turned out to be the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet's albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere."




    YUP!! Read that again.....it is about an IDEA FOR POTENTIAL (and THAT is the big word there..."potential") concepts "IF" and/or "WHEN" such measures are deemed to be appropriate.


    Lastly....I dare NOT criticize an ATS Forum member....but....well......I DID chime in to this next piece, and had many things to say.....:



    My Chemtrail Research was also featured on ATS News with Johnny Anonymous...
    ATS News 04: US Defense Contractor Owns Chemtrail Patent!

    (click to open player in new window)



    I have been called a chemtrailer. I am a chemtrailer and proud of it! That is like calling someone who thinks there is a JFK assassination conspiracy a 'JFKer'.



    Fine.


    Great speech. BUT.....as of yet, the "evidence" that you (or anyone else) have presented is lacking.

    It is very, very simple.....PROOF!!! Not the many, many out-of-context "papers" you find online.....ACTUAL PROOF!!! (is required).

    This includes (but by no means is limited to):

  • Photos. OF GROUND OPERATIONS.
  • Live, "real-time" air samples. Verified.
  • Specifications --- OF the airplanes and aircrews involved.


    Those THREE criteria???? CANNOT be met. Because....photos do not exist.

    "Live, real-time" air samples do not exist.

    AND...biggest of all....the inherent NONSENSE of the airplanes, and crews.....there are simply NOT ENOUGH, in terms of equipment AND manpower (pilots ARE subject to duty and flight time limits, in case you didn't know.....yes, civilian AND military, "rules is rules"....).

    Sorry, but for those of us WHO UNDERSTAND THE REALITY, and the real world?????

    "chemtrails" FAIL....big, big time......

    edit on 14 January 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



  • posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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    Originally posted by dplum517
    reply to post by weedwhacker
     


    Well if your brain can't comprehend how to do something like that then you suck. It IS PRACTICAL AND PLAUSIBLE.

    Just because your close minded little brain can't see how it could be done doesn't mean it can't exist and IS happening.
    edit on 14-1-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)

    edit on 14-1-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)


    Ahh here we go with the vitriol, when challenged. If you cant handle your chemtrail delusions being challenged, then quit whining and name calling.

    I have long challenged chemtrailers to find fault with statements I make regarding meteology and aviation, and still its not happened. If there was all this massive evidence of chemtrails, then you all would not be posting youtube links and conspiracy websites, and then also making up ludicrious statements like 600 new tankers for the USAF, or secret Boeing factories for airliners, or that somehow with a pressurized aerosol tank, that you can somehow stuff so much particulates into a small plane to make a trail across the sky, never mind that those planes that belong to WMI only fly into weather.

    If some of you are so insistent about chemtrail, then when you are all going to start having protests at airports and flight schools? When is a protest outside of Cessna, Piper and Boeing going to happen? When is the protest at an FAA facility going to happen? When is the protest outside of United?



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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    I believe in chemtrails! I live in the sticks of minnesota and they spray the skys here all the time till it looks like fog its horrible..Im always haveing eye problems been to the dr a few times over it and they cant fine any eye infections but they always seem to feel like there is something in them i think its from what ever there spraying in the air..I want our clear skys back!



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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    reply to post by dplum517
     


    "Chain of Command"???

    "Need to Know"???

    YES...I understand EXACTLY what those terms mean...and NO!! YOU don't seem to understand them , at all.....BECAUSE.....again, and this is SO BASIC......

    .......YOU (and the "chemtrail" websites that have infected your mind) seem to be trying to assign a MILITARY connection???

    WHEN (and THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!!) every video you may wish to source, from places such as "YouTube" that claim to be showing "chemtrails" are photographing/videotaping SCHEDULED COMMERCIAL AIRPLANES....each and every time.

    The assertion that "It's the Military" is based on abject nonsense and LACK of research.....because I DID do some research.

    Helped that, just last week at my hotel, a few MARINE Officers (some in civvies, some in uniform) were in the hotel dining room....and were discussing WHAT I ALREADY KNEW.....the SHORTAGE of pilots, currently, in the domestic "arena" ---- AND, they were discussing the glut of aircraft....and LACK OF ADEQUATE STAFFING.....because, as I have tried to point out....PILOTS ARE HUMAN, and as such, require rest. NOT ONLY THAT ....the 'rest' requirements are well-defined and outlined in writing...and are REGULATIONS that both civlil AND military aviators MUST adhere to....REGULATIONS!!!!

    Sorry, but those of us who KNOW .....well, we know a LOT......and tryng to convey what we KNOW to those who DON'T????? It's like trying to teach someone to do an appendectomy from online, with a slow connection......


    edit on 14 January 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jan, 14 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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    reply to post by weedwhacker
     


    Hmmm well sorry but I don't recall seeing any commerical airplanes with horizon to horizon chemtrails.

    You act as if you are soooo smart, when really you are just a cocky SoB!
    And again this is SO BASIC..... there is a Military connection you doof. Show me a single video with Delta, United, Southwest...etc leaving a horizon to horizon (what you call contrail) chemtrail. Ohhh and cool.... you were hangin with some grunts from the marines ... WOW... you are so special and must have all the know.




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