Florida about to have "no refusal" checkpoints

reply to post by ldyserenity


"They are not ARBITRARILY pulling over people just to make them take a breath test! "

I worked several sobriety checkpoints over the years.. that is EXACTLY what happens.

Also your assumption officers must smell alcohol is wrong and a sign of how un-informed you are re: DUI check points

For example DUI coc aine (stimulant) is against the law too, but a crack head driver wont emit an odor of alcohol.. you think the police will let that person go due to lack of "smell"? .. uh no. That person will be FORCED to submit a chemical sample of blood under the "best evidence rule".

There are many "objective observable symptoms" of alcohol intoxication: red watery eyes, dilated pupils, odor of alcohol emitting from breath / person / vehicle, slow slurred speech, slow & deliberate mannerisms, disheveled appearance, vertical nystagmus combined with eyes "lacking smooth pursuit" while following the officers finger.. heck I could pinpoint any-ones BAC based on angle of nystagmus on-set... .

Add a few "objective symptoms" of drug influence: constricted pupils, rebound dilation, OPWs, FPWs, OST (old puncture wounds, fresh puncture wounds, old scar tissue).. I could list a dozen more "observable symptoms" any officer worth his salt can use to yank you out of your car and FORCE a chemical sample.

..and just because you are sober doesn't mean s#.. have an old warrant for un-returned library book?, forget to re-new your license?, registration expired by a few months?, headlamp out?.. ANY vehicle code violations?.. you will be cited, could be arrested and could easily have your vehicle impounded (look up storage authority Cal 22651P VC for example).

Once towed you must pay the city a vehicle release fee, anywhere from $60 to $300, pay for the tow, eh $165, & impound.. could be $30-90 per DAY.. on top of court fees and "administrative" (aka DMV) fees..

Cities / local govts have turned "sobriety checkpoints" into "sobriety, license & safety checkpoints" which are cash cows that do little or nothing to deter drivers who are "under the influence".. as a matter of fact if you bother to check up on it, you'll find the vast majority of officers time at checkpoint is spend dealing with unlicensed drivers and impounding vehicles.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by LadySkadi

 

Checkpoints are common, having a Judge Dredd on scene to stab you and take your blood is not common! The checkpoints were bad enough, but adding a Judge and Phlebotomist to every checkpoint is surely crossing the line.

To draw blood, do they need a release holding the hospital in question where the blood is drawn harmless from damages should an infection or other damage result to the suspect? I doubt they'd have a phlebotomist at every checkpoint. Same with the judges. Does a judge have to be on-site to issue a warrant or can they do it over the telephone?

reply to post by 46ACE


Realized I had more to say on this subject. After 9/11, cameras were installed on every lane leaving Camp Pendleton (Marine Base). Initially, the centric checkpoint on Highway 5 was NEVER closed, Sheriffs/Marines were posted at each lane and checked your ethnicity and level of luggage or "stuff" in your car. No matter what, too much in the car, you were pulled over, unless you looked like the all American family on vacation. To this day, the cameras are always on in every lane. The alien warning signs are on both the North and South bound lanes. And there are scales only on the Northbound lanes. Search and seizure goes on with dogs both in cars and trucks through pullover. This is normal for Californians. And do not get me started about Edwards AFB or Vandenberg...always, even as a small child, DUI stops with military personnel.

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


A Judge is on site? Sounds like a new reality show and probably, will be.

Good gawd, can we end this insanity already?
2012 asteroid anyone?

Originally posted by LadySkadi
I find it interesting that so many of you are upset at the Florida plan, when this has been going on in Maui since the 90's! Probably before...

I am encouraged that my foresight remains intact - as I stated earlier it wouldn't be long before someone came along and used the excuse that illegal actions by government are justified because they've successfully broken the law elsewhere in the past. Way to dismiss your rights as a human being.

reply to post by ararisq


Your outrage is diluted if you dismiss the longstanding practices in one place, but cry foul when they newly occur somewhere else.

reply to post by jymmyjaymes

Its ironic, you are allowed by law to drive a motor vehicle to an establishment that is allowed by law to sell you adult beverages. It is a a known fact that a lot of people out there drive home intoxicated.

HMMMmmm Just thinking.

Why not have breathalyzers available at the bar?? That way you know for sure whether you are safe to drive home, should call a cab or hang around for a while more before driving home.

Uh, yeah, sorry OP but I'll take this checkpoint deal over drunk driving morons anyday. I'm glad they're boosting up measures to secure the roads for citizens.

reply to post by mydarkpassenger


"To draw blood, do they need a release holding the hospital in question where the blood is drawn harmless from damages should an infection or other damage result to the suspect? I doubt they'd have a phlebotomist at every checkpoint. Same with the judges. Does a judge have to be on-site to issue a warrant or can they do it over the telephone? "

Some phlebotomist refuse to force blood, others don't. I don't know about Florida, but my experience in Ca.. we had a mean RN, former Navy Corpsmen, who rather enjoyed the challenge of drawing blood from resisters. He had zero qualms about puncturing people several times... and normally there would either be 3 or 4 cops pinning the person down.. or they were engineered into 5 point restraints... sometimes hog tied.

We had no judge on site, we sent a brief signed pre-written "statement of facts" via facsimile to some judges house.. a few minutes later we got back a signed warrant.

Side note: one evening the fax machine took a crap & we had to drive these forms to his honors house 10 min away.. dude was 3 sheets to the wind.. lol.. the irony was biting. He was also in the presence of a female of ill repute (hooker) we recognized..

Yavul heir Feurer, I guess the Nazis that escaped Germany after WW11 are really at work in this country. Just like everything else, they get their foot in the door and keep on pushing. Next we'll probably need to produce our papers just to by groceries.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


I have to say this....

This country is not for you then. See a few years ago, there were individuals that were ruling people on this island from a different island. The people on this island, you are currently on, were being taken advantage of, and decided that they needed to form some protection from tyranny and oppression. They even sacrificed the ultimate sacrifice to ensure that a few individuals couldn't trample on everyone. I'd say you have some gall to spit on those individuals for doing something that you so conveniently toss aside for a feeling of warmth in your belly.

I think it will be OK if we have checkpoints for DUI of anything not just alcohol. I have done teen and women's intervention work for drugs and alcohol. You cannot imagine the pain of an alcoholic/drug addict who has killed someone while driving under the influence. And you cannot imagine the gratitude of same shown to their arresting officer who took them off the streets before they did harm.

It's going to be OK.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I guarantee that driving at a 0.08 BAC level is barely noticeable

Wrong.

Unless you weigh 100lbs, .08 is more than 1 drink.
You should not be driving if you're had more than one beer.

All this no refusal does is prevent drunks from scamming the system by refusing a breathalyzer, stalling, waiting for their BAC to come down below legal levels. DUI lawyers are telling people to refuse, because it takes a few hours for them to be taken down to the station and get a blood test.

If you don't drink and drive, you have nothing to worry about PERIOD.
Don't give me that police state nonsense. Drunk drivers are POS criminals and belong in jail.

I don't even drink, but when I saw this headline I cringed because I've got to go to Florida soon and it makes me not want to have to.

I believe that I am safest when I have to interface with cops the least. I consider them to be just as dangerous as criminals. Right or wrong, my body reacts that way - let me see some blue flashing lights behind me or at a road block and I get an adrenaline surge and start sweating, even as I have done nothing at all wrong driving my son to his acting class!

They used to have a lot of roadblocks in Georgia but they've not had so many lately. I am glad. They mostly do it at low income places so they can bust people for not buying insurance, because it is mandatory here.

I'm always really scared I won't be able to put my hands on my 'papers' or that one of my documents will be missing.

It reminds me of war movies about people in Germany in WWII.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Good news on this...

We wanted a highspeed train from Orlando to Tampa and Orlando to Atlanta, and we approved the plans and the funding at the polls, but the legislature decided they know more than us, they shot down the most popular parts of the bills, decided to fund the least popular portion of the rail, and then never began that process and a new legislature pulled that funding.

As of this month, the Fed Govt. agreed to fork over 342 million for the project to start. I'm excited about this, as I live in Tampa Bay, and go to Orlando often.

Personally, I think they (the police) are opening themselves up to civil liberties lawsuits out the wazoo...

My prediction is a full ACLU class-action suit from any who are tested in this way during this "crackdown".

As getreadyalready said, there is no "deterrent" for this crime. It's committed while already in a state that impairs judgement. Instead, this sets a DANGEROUS precedent, and slippery slope for the violation of other liberties in other situations, and I have no doubt this is UNCONSTITUTIONAL in practice.

I'm not saying we shouldn't get drunks off the road. We should. But, we shouldn't trample all over civil liberties in the process. The existing penalties are MORE than sufficient to deter... Unfortunately, when inebriated, deterrence is a moot point. If someone refuses a field sobriety test, there is NO reason the existing procedures shouldn't be followed. You can't just make up laws to apply to the SEASON.... Talk about PRECEDENTS!

Originally posted by hadriana
I don't even drink, but when I saw this headline I cringed because I've got to go to Florida soon and it makes me not want to have to.

I believe that I am safest when I have to interface with cops the least. I consider them to be just as dangerous as criminals. Right or wrong, my body reacts that way - let me see some blue flashing lights behind me or at a road block and I get an adrenaline surge and start sweating, even as I have done nothing at all wrong driving my son to his acting class!

They used to have a lot of roadblocks in Georgia but they've not had so many lately. I am glad. They mostly do it at low income places so they can bust people for not buying insurance, because it is mandatory here.

I'm always really scared I won't be able to put my hands on my 'papers' or that one of my documents will be missing.

It reminds me of war movies about people in Germany in WWII.

edit on 30-12-2010 by hadriana because: (no reason given)

I will refer you to HarryTuttles response, I don't know if it'll work, but it sounds reasonable.
I know if you're coming to Tampa, now don't quote me on this, because it may not be so, and if it is so, I could probably get in trouble for this, but most known areas where checkpoints are:
YBOR city 22nd street,
Martin Luther King coming off the I-75 exit,
Dale Mabry approaching the I-75 exit,
and 301 near thonotosassa
those are a few I have seen.
I just found it on their website and it seems I am not too far off, all those areas I mentioned are EAST Hillsborough County,

Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:00 p.m. to Friday, December 31, 2010 5:00 a.m.

BAT Unit and remote booking transport provided at SR 60 & Parsons Ave. 293 Brandon Blvd. W., Brandon

The area of Eastern Hillsborough County will be targeted in an effort to reduce the number of crashes and deter those who may violate motor vehicular traffic laws.

This is from hillsborough county sherrifs website. You can link to this website via www.hcso.tampa.fl.us...
then look at news releases.

Originally posted by Pharyax
Reminds me of the Nazi checkpoints looking for Jewish people.....
This Country is becoming more and more fascist.

I do agree with checkpoints to get those pathetic loser drunks off the street, but the 'no refusal' bit of it is worrying.. makes me wonder what other 'no refusal' type checkpoints they'll come up with besides busting drunks.

edit on 12/30/2010 by Pharyax because: (no reason given)

How the hell is that the same? thats the most asinine comparison you could have made, way to sound like a moron. your comparing capture of jews to be euthinised to cops making sure that your Mom Dad son daughter or other loved one has a better chance getting home safe by taking drunks off the road. Think before you post DENY Ignorance.

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
[exnty.

Florida is among several states now holding what are called "no refusal" checkpoints.

It means if you refuse a breath test during a traffic stop, a judge is on site, and issues a warrant that allows police to perform a mandatory blood test.

It's already being done in several counties, and now Unfried is working to bring it to the Tampa Bay area.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by BigTimeCheater

 

A Judge is on site? Sounds like a new reality show and probably, will be.

Good gawd, can we end this insanity already?
2012 asteroid anyone?

Hell why wait, start passing out the Koolaid and get it over with

reply to post by Schaden


"If you don't drink and drive, you have nothing to worry about PERIOD. "

Wrong.

We spent most of our time on checkpoint writing chickencrap cites & impounding vehicles from unlicensed un-impaired drivers.. oh and booking warrant arrests that normally wouldn't be worth the effort.

Normally misdemeanor warrants under $20K are non-bookable.. but at a "sobriety, drivers license & safety checkpoint".. everyone got booked.. because it generated stats used to justify future check points. Same with "poo-butt" misd pinches.. a patrol officer booking someone for 12500/14601VC would draw the ire of the HMFIC as a waste of time, but at a checkpoint.. it was a righteous hook.. er, I mean stat... that also just happened to generate CASH MONEY if fines/fees.

For those who want to believe the local govt / law enforcement set up sobriety, drivers license & safety checkpoints based on virtuous motives of protecting children & keeping people safe.. keep fooling yourselves if you like... it's delusional and far far removed from reality.

I PROMISE YOU, the local gendarme could give a fecal loaf about you, your kids or your safety.. the police have no duty to protect you (look it up).. guess what we got from an asset seizure thanks to $50 worth of coke?.. a brand new $120k motor home the dept turned into a mobile command post... that was used primarily for what?.. run more sobriety checkpoints.. yup. Guilt / innocence doesn't matter re: drug related asset seizures, your property can be legally taken away based on a preponderance of the evidence..