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New York union guilty of murder (depraved indifference)

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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What a joke of a thread, the indifference of the United States government is causing people to die everyday and you're going to go on a crusade against a NY union for deliberately doing some half-assed snowplowing.

I'm not a US resident but come take a look over here in Europe, we've had snow/ice on the roads for over a week, there is barely any salt left to keep the main roads clear, lots of small villages still have slippery roads covered in ice. Point is, we live with it, we don't rage over little #ing issues like 'herp-a-derp they didn't plow my street, imabemad', and the last thing we'll do is sue a public service like this for the possibility they might kill someone.

From over here you look like the typical I'm-gonna-sue-the-world American

edit on 30-12-2010 by AphexTwins because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by AphexTwins
 


No, do not want to sue em, just want to throw em in jail where they belong.

Why is it that the people pay taxes? So the government workers can NOT do their jobs?

Good argument. Got anything better?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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If we're going to point fingers, let's see how the left views it without the union bashing.

crooksandliars.com...

edit on 30-12-2010 by Cablespider because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Cablespider
 


That article pretty much blamed everything on Bloomberg, mostly. It does not mention that the Union purposefully did not do their jobs.

But a very good article nonetheless.

If whoever wrote included the union's purposeful slowdown and not doing their jobs, I would say an excellent article.

But, I do not like the use of the austerity measures comparison. Did not other cities have budget cuts? But, they did not have the Union commit what they did in New York. Ending outcome, where the Unions did not commit a crime, the streets were cleared and problems were taken care of.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by AphexTwins
 


No, do not want to sue em, just want to throw em in jail where they belong.

Why is it that the people pay taxes? So the government workers can NOT do their jobs?

Good argument. Got anything better?

I grew up in a country where unions still have the power to protest, thankfully, too bad this happened on a day where it mattered but the responsibility there lies with your government, not your union. And don't worry, your tax dollars are already spent on bailing out your precious Wall Street...

Oh, define 'them' please, you mean all the workers that protested?


EDIT: After looking at your profile I'm starting to think you're a troll, if not just a fat hypocrite, you don't like the government but you try to defend Bloomberg, you don't even get the concept of a union it seems...

edit on 30-12-2010 by AphexTwins because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by AphexTwins
 


Yep, do you not get it? Anyone that protested by not doing their job, caused the deaths of innocent people.

And YOU are going to attempt to justify it? Let me guess, you live in one of dem dare utopian socialist countries aye?

Where protesting by causing damage of other people's property is a good thing. Please. Why not just kill a few people outright like the terrorists to protest. That is just the next step in your logical evolution of argument.

Whatever.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by AphexTwins
 


Yep, do you not get it? Anyone that protested by not doing their job, caused the deaths of innocent people.
What deaths? I haven't seen any proof of someone dying directly related to the snow not being plowed.

And YOU are going to attempt to justify it? Let me guess, you live in one of dem dare utopian socialist countries aye?
If you can read you can see where I live, I'm sure you can figure out the answer to this yourself.

Where protesting by causing damage of other people's property is a good thing. Please. Why not just kill a few people outright like the terrorists to protest. That is just the next step in your logical evolution of argument.
Say what? The logical evolution to my argument? I'm sure I don't follow that logic.

Whatever.

And now come back with arguments, yeh, those things discussions are based on...
edit on 30-12-2010 by AphexTwins because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Can you or anyone else prove the union purposely slowed down? Of course, the union denies it. An investigation needs to take place. As it stands now, it's a right-wing charge using a right-wing rag. Anti-union hysteria is on the rise with the right leading the effort. They are surely not beyond playing politics in situations like this. Sheesh..read the comments in the Post article. People are frothing at the mouth and yet no one knows for sure if the allegations are true. A picture of worker sleeping isn't proof of much.

Can you or anyone else prove the deaths were directly related to a purported slowdown? Is it possible there just wasn't enough workers to man the idle plows? The mayors block sure was tidy and clean.
edit on 30-12-2010 by Cablespider because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


You understand that the Supervisors aren't part of the Union right?
This is the Management of the NY Sanitation Department slowing things down to pad Their Budget...
It has nothing to do with the Union....



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


The unions don't have anything to do with Firing you...
Think about using facts please...



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Oh Saltheart... I come here to actually mostly agree with, regarding this thread, and even before I can do so, I find you waffling - saying the exact opposite of what you said in the drunk driving should be legal thread. Tsk. Tsk.

Now to the task at hand.

These deaths occurred in specific areas so, for my money, the rational thing to do would be to put the specific crews, or crew members who serviced, or were assigned to those areas under scrutiny. If there is reasonable cause to believe that they deliberately slowed work, then criminal charges of some sort should be pursued. Gross negligence, or something along those line, I would think.

As for the union itself... well that's a bone of contention in and of itself, isn't it? Not just what to do about this specific event, with this specific union - but with unions in general. One can look back 80 or 90 years and research a bit and see exactly why unions were a necessary and good thing. But, then, when one fast forwards to the last few decades and looks at them... Well it becomes apparent that the good thing that they were supposed to represent got lost in the shuffle somewhere along the way.

~Heff



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:26 PM
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Good luck proving they purposefully slowed down their work.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Not waffling, I am using the exact law as it is written. Yes, I was arguing the other side of the argument on that thread, because it is basically the stance I take. Do no harm, BUT in this instance, something that they did not do, which was their responsibility, is directly related to deaths.

Now, it is close to the discussion we were having on the Drunk and Driving discussion, but not exactly the same situation. When someone does something that MAY cause harm, is not the same as when it DOES cause harm.

But yes, your break down is pretty good.

Thanks for the comment.

Just to add, sometimes even when arguing or debating, I have to attempt to defend my CORE beliefs. Sometimes they change, sometimes they get reinforced. I am still debating my stance on crime needing a victim. That is why I got into that discussion. D and D I mean.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by AphexTwins
 


Sorry, I do not know if your country has had the riots and the likes of Greece. Do not know every county's form of government in Europe or their economic problems right now.

When you protest, you do not do something to damage property or to cause harm, that is criminal activity in my eyes and in every court in world I think.

What I was stating is that when you protest and you do something that causes harm, just because you did not MEAN to cause the harm, it is STILL a criminal act.

A blizzard was going on. The people purposefully did not do their job to protest paycuts. People died. Criminal behavior in my eyes perpetrated by government employees.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Cablespider
 


That is what an investigation is for. If you would have read the linked articles, you would have found that "snitches" in one person's words, stated that they were told to not get the work done to TEACH the mayor a lesson.

As for the proof of directly relating the deaths, I am sure if I was working as an investigator, I could put together links to the situations. In regards to the baby's death, the woman had called 911 and no one was able to get to her for 9 hours.

As for the mayor's house being plowed first, I have a REALLY big question, if they wanted to teach the Mayor a lesson, maybe they should not have plowed his street until last! WOW, whoda thought you could actually protest without causing emergency problems, in a BLIZZARD.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by nivekronnoco
 


Did the unions carry out the actions of the supervisors?

Are you sure the supervisors are NOT part of the union, can you back that up?

reply to post by Throwback
 


Well it seems the Post got someone to talk, I am sure if the District Attorney wanted to do something about it, they could subpoena the reporter and give an immunity agreement for the sources. With these sources they could create a case.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Okay...but where's the proof? You keep spinning this as a matter of fact. A 'snitch' isn't proof. A politician making the claim isn't proof. It's only he said, she said at this point.

Just admit you're anti-union and you used this opportunity to do exactly what the politician and rag did: use this mess to attack the union and get people riled up over a what could be a baseless charge. It also diverts attention away from the mayor and his responsibilities.

There is no doubt people are responsible. Who and why is the question. Until someone can answer those questions, it's all speculation based on hearsay. Yet you keeping railing against the union as if it's been determined already. More than likely, a few workers will be found negligent. That doesn't mean the entire union was in on it.
edit on 30-12-2010 by Cablespider because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Cablespider
 


Railing? I guess you do not like me discussing this.

Please point out a component of the thread where I have not been forthright in my descriptions or my logic.

I am using an article from the New York Post as my PROOF.

Are you saying it is not true? Maybe YOU should get on the ball and provide some defensive proof instead of whining that I am smearing unions.

Sounds kind of projective to me. Hmmm?

edit to add-since you added that little component about it being just a few in the union, maybe you could point out the part of the thread where I accused the ENTIRE union.
edit on 30-12-2010 by saltheart foamfollower because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by AphexTwins
What a joke of a thread, the indifference of the United States government is causing people to die everyday and you're going to go on a crusade against a NY union for deliberately doing some half-assed snowplowing.


The article is an un-sourced rumor from a noted right wing tabloid newspaper.
The last few months, you can't click on the drudge report without some article blaming unions for all of society's ills.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Anecdotal evidence doesn't hold up well in court.



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