Its not socialism, its fascism - proof?

This video is blowing me away. I thought I had a pretty good grip on what was wrong with world ..everything from bad education to corrupt government even though I am not much of a believer in the whole Illuminati thing. Always seems there plenty of just plain stupidity and greed to account for most of the evils in the world.
This 3 HOUR video covers the details of corporate government investment in excruciating detail, with web document backup. It pretty much blows away any idea that the various levels of US Government are BROKE financially and confirms that 'we the people' are meaningless, the constitution is long past broken.

see the video and some summary information here
The Corporation Nation (2010) (10/26/2010) - Clint Richardson
Link

reply to post by Chett


I bookmarked this. I'll watch it soon.

It's been pretty obvious to me that we live in a corporate fascist tyranny for the past couple years.
It's amazing. How did it happen. I remember being a kid and thinking the world was one thing and now I see it either quickly became something completely different or maybe it always was this and I was just seeing it through rose colored glasses.

For today though. I have food and shelter and freedom and employment and the internet. There's always hope even in times like these.

What has fascism to do with your "democratic" corrupt government? Go find out what the true fascism means before you accuse fascism as the ultimate evil reponsible for everything that is bad in the World.

reply to post by Pitons


Well if you look at the material it shows how any line between government (of any kind) and corporations is gone. That spells fascism in my dictionary.

reply to post by Chett


And I tell you it has less to do with true fascism and more with your democratic corrupt government. You can't call corrupt democratic givernment fascism because it is... just democratic corrupt government. Deal with it.

reply to post by Pitons

US Government is not, never has been democratic, its a republic ..or at least that is the way it was designed, much like early Rome. Is it corrupt now? For sure. But it also has blended so much with the corporate side of things you can't really find the line.

reply to post by Chett


So if democratic government is good - then it is democratic and good and all, but when such a government (even the same) does bad things - it definitely becomes fascism? Because if something is bad it's fascism and democracy is always good? I get it.

reply to post by Pitons

No actually democratic government is not good, only one that I know of that ever worked was Athens and that is even open to debate. I in fact didn't even say fascism is bad (although I happen to believe it is). I think you might profit from learning to read the words and not jump to conclusions.
Just to help you out a little:
Democracy = rule by the majority = 2 wolves and a sheep deciding whats for dinner.
In a democracy minority groups loose.

reply to post by Chett


Well this democratic government of yours was elected by the majority. They have the power to make the decisions given them by the majority. They have the power as long as they are elected for the time period. If voters are not satisfied they have to wait till the next elecion or create a civil war. When new elections come they can eject corrupt selfish democrats and elect good guys. It is still a democratic government making decisions, just corrupt. In my dictionary a corrupt democratic government is just a corrupt democratic government. It's not fascism. You can't call fascism everything that is bad.

Fascism is word used to hide other ideologies sins.

Originally posted by Pitons
reply to post by Chett

 

Well this democratic government of yours was elected by the majority. They have the power to make the decisions given them by the majority. They have the power as long as they are elected for the time period. If voters are not satisfied they have to wait till the next elecion or create a civil war. When new elections come they can eject corrupt selfish democrats and elect good guys. It is still a democratic government making decisions, just corrupt. In my dictionary a corrupt democratic government is just a corrupt democratic government. It's not fascism. You can't call fascism everything that is bad.

Fascism is word used to hide other ideologies sins.

As often the best way is to define terms first. How will you describe true fascism? It is not simple task, there is not solid consensus on the meaning of this word. Explanation like: "fascism is political regime of Italy under Mussolini" is not sufficient.
There is quite good article on Wikipedia about fascism and as I read it I can find many similarities between fascism and current state of US (and to some extent rest of the western countries) but there are also significant differences.
Clear definition of term fascism is essential condition of meaningful discussion.

The argument about whether the US is a democracy or a republic is a moot point and doesn't change the fact that corporate fascism rules the day. Just look at all the money that the people are on the hook for that has been used to bail out / prop up private banking corporations and others. That IS NOT socialism by any stretch of the imagination.
It was those same big banking concerns too that only last century planned the overthrow of the elected US government and alignment with fascist Italy and Germany. Yet today, those same entities still exist and still call the shots. They didn't get their armed coup back then but sure have worked at embedding themselves in government and taking over by stealth since.

reply to post by zeddissad2


I see true fascism as ideology with such hallmarks: nationalism and patriotism above all, cult of a strong charismatic leader who loves his people, where working class works shoulder to shoulder with elite class, genetically better ones have to be encouraged to reproduce more than usual, genetically defected who can't do nothing good to society must not born children and similar.

I don't see much of these traits in USA society today. So no - it's not fascism imho. It's just a failed democracy-liberaltardism.

reply to post by Britguy

The startling thing I got from the referenced documentary was the amount of stock in those corporations held by various parts of the government. The 'regulators' running the corporations ...the fox watching the hen house. That is how I see fascism, the bits about charismatic leader etc, are implementation details that describe the surface appearance, not the underlying structure.

I seem to have this leftover fantasy, I guess from childhood, that the government was not allowed to invest in things they regulate. I have been corrected.

Originally posted by Pitons
reply to post by zeddissad2

 

I see true fascism as ideology with such hallmarks: nationalism and patriotism above all, cult of a strong charismatic leader who loves his people, where working class works shoulder to shoulder with elite class, genetically better ones have to be encouraged to reproduce more than usual, genetically defected who can't do nothing good to society must not born children and similar.

I don't see much of these traits in USA society today. So no - it's not fascism imho. It's just a failed democracy-liberaltardism.

Nationalism and patriotism are very strong in USA - just remember "freedom fries". US presidents in general are uncritically loved by many Americans - it is not clear "cult of person", maybe cult of "office" or "leadership" is proper word. Modern eugenics as political movement was born in USA and at least among elite is still entertained idea under many different labels. Corporate sphere and government grow into one (+ not functioning unions + neo-liberal ideology which is prevalent even among working class).
Yes, there is two party system, but it is in fact one pro-corporate party. What about those endless imperial wars? What about propaganda in MSM? I can see many pretty fascistic tendencies.

reply to post by Chett


So you see fascism ideology as an auto-evil? Whenever some ideology fails - it's fascism to blame?

The main difference I see here that bankers are selfish greedy bastards who take money from the people through budget to get richer. It's more to do with capitalism and individualism than ideology such as fascism.

It's just my opinion and I do know 99 % of people won't agree with me. Fascism is just to good of a evil word to blame everything. Especially other ideologies' epic fails.

reply to post by zeddissad2


"Nationalism and patriotism are very strong in USA - just remember "freedom fries". US presidents in general are uncritically loved by many Americans - it is not clear "cult of person", maybe cult of "office" or "leadership" is proper word. Modern eugenics as political movement was born in USA and at least among elite is still entertained idea under many different labels. Corporate sphere and government grow into one (+ not functioning unions + neo-liberal ideology which is prevalent even among working class).
Yes, there is two party system, but it is in fact one pro-corporate party. What about those endless imperial wars? What about propaganda in MSM? I can see many pretty fascistic tendencies."

True that USA had much of fascist hallmarks in the past. There's a bunch of people who support an idea today too. But I see fascism as an ideology where the whole community (not only elite but also working class, just not the defected ones like hard criminals for example) get rewarded for hard work, not only a bunch of bankers. Mind you - ideology. Actually Hitler rejected the zionist bankers and see how things gone for him from that moment. In 1933 zionists declared economic war against Germany, declared that there won't be Germany in the future and then bought Churchill and Roosevelt. Churchill even acknowledged in one conference that Britain declared war by their own free will and it was not necessary to do so. But that's off topic and debatable questions.
The same zionist bankers are ruling the world today. Rockfellers and other bunch of freaks. And they are as powerful as ever. Waging war against Germany the World didn't realise the true enemy who lived on their own territory amongst themselves.

reply to post by Pitons

No plenty of bad ideologies around besides fascism, might even be that all ...ism is evil. But the best way to fight an enemy to understand it first. Things are bad, really bad. Has nothing to do with right/left and putting it to bankers is really too narrow, lots of non-bankers in this evil mix.

I think real Fascism is great. But the failed US is not Fascist, it's exploitive imperialistist capitalism, with money as the God, and screw everyone else. That's not true Fascism at all. When people hear the word corporate in rleation to Fascism, they think big company corporations, and that's not the same thing in Fascism. Big company corporations are selfish greedy money lovers, that oil the politicians hands for backroom deals. Corporatism under Fascism is the government/state being run as a corporation, for the common good of the state. Here is the Doctrine of Fascism www.historyguide.org... I think it's a good read, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

reply to post by tom502


Well with the corporations basically running everything its not really just an American problem, corporations (the big ones) really don't care much about things like borders. Perhaps there are a few countries out there where the business/government entity is not yet running everything but it sure is headed that way.

Originally posted by Pitons
reply to post by zeddissad2

 

True that USA had much of fascist hallmarks in the past. There's a bunch of people who support an idea today too. But I see fascism as an ideology where the whole community (not only elite but also working class, just not the defected ones like hard criminals for example) get rewarded for hard work, not only a bunch of bankers. Mind you - ideology. Actually Hitler rejected the zionist bankers and see how things gone for him from that moment. In 1933 zionists declared economic war against Germany, declared that there won't be Germany in the future and then bought Churchill and Roosevelt. Churchill even acknowledged in one conference that Britain declared war by their own free will and it was not necessary to do so. But that's off topic and debatable questions.
The same zionist bankers are ruling the world today. Rockfellers and other bunch of freaks. And they are as powerful as ever. Waging war against Germany the World didn't realise the true enemy who lived on their own territory amongst themselves.

Now I see the root of misunderstanding. I think OP is thinking fascism as authoritarian system where corporations and government are on same side of barricade. Thanks to propaganda many working/middle class people support this system though it is against their class interests - that is the famous "false consciousness". Marx predicted this 150 years ago BTW - with shrinking resources, accumulation of wealth in hands of few and impoverishment of many, ruling class have to use more of whip then sugar - hence capitalism inherently leads to authoritarian rule.
Post-modern discourse is not friendly to sharply defined ideologies - that is one reason why we do not see strong ideologies today. With advancement in propaganda tools there is no need for such visible systems. You can now achieve same or better results with much subtle instruments. So USA are not ruled under consistent fascistic ideology. On other hand we can see many signs of authoritarian rule there and IMO the best historical mach is fascism.