A True Christian Can Not Believe in Evolution !

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Thread Note - Atheistic based trolling comments will be ignored. This thread is for Christians to comment, one way or another.

So you only want to talk to people who agree with you? I didn't think that ultra-dogmatic religionists believed in masturbation. Learn something new every day...

reply to post by Justoneman


That is a very interesting theory you've got there! I'll have to read that and think some more.

reply to post by freedish


You know what, you sound like you would very interested in the link that is in my signature. I have acoupla threads about it, too. You should def check that out!

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Thread Note - Atheistic based trolling comments will be ignored. This thread is for Christians to comment, one way or another.

edit on 29-12-2010 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

If you want only Christians to reply, maybe you should take such questions to a religios website instead?

Anyway, I think its entirely possible for christians to believe in evolution. I know one or two, who dont take the bible as gospel, and believe that the thoery of evolution is possible, and that was on their own accord, without being threatened or pressured into it. I believe Jesus existed, but Im atheist.....I dont think he was the son of god as belief would state (as I dont believe in god), but I have no reason to doubt his existence, in my opinion, he was just another man. So I find it quite difficult to believe that evolution and religion cant go together

reply to post by jennybee35


I heard the Reverand Hagee from San Antonio TX give a sermon. Plus I had a class in college in Theology I took on a whim and the Prof had actually found some of the Dead Sea Scrolls. He was lucky but he also thought there were more than one Earth like in do overs. That would seem to explain the archeological data that there were some strange animals and strange climates before we came along and then make me think it will reconcile evolution for Christians that the original text had included such an important statement.

Originally posted by rbilly001
Maybe if a god did create us, then I would have to assume time has little or no meaning to this being, evolution could have simply been a blink of an eye for god but something we see as taking millions and billions of years. Evolution could have simply been the creation process.

You serve a pretty weak god. That god need billions of years to bring man into existence??

My Bible says man brought death into the world via sin. Your theology, (Evolution), needs death to bring man into the world.

reply to post by OzWeatherman

If you want only Christians to reply, maybe you should take such questions to a religios website instead?

Sorry, but this is the R,F&T sub-forum. If you'd have bothered to read the stickied thread titled 'ALL MEMBERS READ - Moving Past Religion 101 and Staying on Topic" you'd plainly see this statement in the OP:

Some of the topics in this forum will most certainly deal with the existence of God. Does God really exist? While this is a worthwhile topic many members wish to move past this introductory theme, past Religion 101, and would like to dive into deeper topic of religion and faith. Are Christians required to keep all of the 10 Commandments including the Sabbath day? Are the teachings of Mohammed peaceful, a beneficial for people today? Do Mormons really believe in polygamy? Do all Buddhist monks have flashbacks before battle? We can't begin to truly discuss these topics if we're constantly arguing about if God is real or not. If you have questions that deal with the existence of God or want to ask if Mohammed actually was a real person or a myth, then please start a new discussion with a meaningful, appropriate title and you may then dominate a new discussion with this theme in mind. Please do not interject into deeper religious topics the question of the reality of a higher being. Unless stated in the topic, we are assuming in this forum that we've moved on past that point. Imagine discussing algebra while someone keeps interjecting that they still don’t believe in addition. The very reason that classes such as these have prerequisites is so new ground can be covered in the subject.

"ALL MEMBERS READ" kinda means YOU!

allright, but they can steal, rape, lie, kill, mess all up and so on? WTF?! I belive in nothing then in values, and I know if a good exists he would like my way: That is not saying am christian, but not to steal, not to rape and lie and kill and to be esteeming to nature, world, humans animals and plants. Radicals will this society die...from people initiated like you OP.

A true christian also cannot believe in vengeance, the death penalty, an eye for an eye, etc.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

So here is the confirmation that God directly created humans, male & female.

As a Christian i have no doubt about that God created us.

Any christian that has succumbed to the aggressive propaganda of the evolutionists in recent years, needs to reexamine their faith in the the bible, and Jesus words.

To be honest i have not been succumbed to any aggressive propaganda. My faith haven´t change. Although i am getting insulted by people sometimes because i am Christian, but i usually tend to ignore those kind of individuals.

This is such a basic simple teaching, yet evolutionists and atheists have done a good job at exploiting and abusing the field of science to support their idea's and they have had a measure of success in making some Christians doubt such a basic belief.

Science is a tool. And as every tool can be misused. But that does not making me doubt about my beliefs. I believe that Creation and Evolution are compatible. The "Theory of Evolution", however i do not accept. But biology and genetics are science, and i have no problem with science. The only problem that i have is when people try to prove to me why i am delusional, because i believe in a Creator and not in "Random Mutations".

As to the Six days of Creation,here is a small article written by Ph.D Gerald L. Schroeder, which explains about the time line of the Six Days of Creation. Which i tend to agree, to be honest.

The calculations come out to be as follows:

• The first of the Biblical days lasted 24 hours, viewed from the "beginning of time perspective." But the duration from our perspective was 8 billion years.

• The second day, from the Bible's perspective lasted 24 hours. From our perspective it lasted half of the previous day, 4 billion years.

• The third 24 hour day also included half of the previous day, 2 billion years.

• The fourth 24 hour day ― one billion years.

• The fifth 24 hour day ― one-half billion years.

• The sixth 24 hour day ― one-quarter billion years.

When you add up the Six Days, you get the age of the universe at 15 and 3/4 billion years. The same as modern cosmology. Is it by chance?

Here is the Source

Peace

reply to post by NthOther
Agreed,

A true Christian can not believe in evolution. It is not even a reasonable thought. Life evolved?

Satan is ahead of men in tech and if he could he would be loading earth with his made up creatures to overcome any else there is or was. It is all degrading and not getting better.

When substance not already here and life comes into it evolution will have an argument even if it isn't intelligent. When it has an intelligible language then it would really be believeable.

Truthiron.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


First, thank you for that, Atheists have been defiantly ignoring this forums ground rules, I am going to use that in the future.
But because they are, it forced me to put in the "Thread Note". I see they didn't like it much either.
Tough cookies for them. There are other forums to express their thoughts and opinions.

Christians think, Jesus wasn't talking about the creation of animals here, he was talking about the creation of humans. Let me be even more very specific than the title from the OP, if you believe in Jesus and his words as quoted from the bible you can not believe specifically in the evolution of man from a one celled entity in the sea to what we see the human is today. You just can't. Because once we as Christians start to pick and choose from the gospels what we want to believe we have formulated are own religious dogma. And it's not Christianity anymore; it's something else.

I love this video to restore or strengthen a Christians faith in a Creator. It's about science so even atheists can appreciate it to some degree, however they may disagree with the final assessment.

Yea, just ignore my post Jay.
2nd.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Perhaps if you take that kind of attitude you should not be posting in a liberal forum, perhaps a forum without the possibility of rebuttal would suit you better?

And using the Fibonacci Numbers as proof of God...oh dear we are reaching here aren't we!...ever heard of the phrase "God of the Gaps"...that coupled with a fundamental knowledge of evolution equates to the law of proportions, just because you fail to understand something...don't label it as God.

I don't know how many times I've read what I'm about to say in the past couple of days, but here we go anyway:

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life on earth. Evolution only involves the how organisms change over time.

Everything to do with the origin of life on this planet is referred to as abiogenesis

In natural science, abiogenesis or biopoesis is the study of how life arises from inanimate matter through natural processes, and the method by which life on Earth arose

Abiogenesis

One day maybe it will sink in

reply to post by Seed76


Actually, it's a common misconception that it is that old, it is infact:

The estimated age of the universe is 13.75 ± 0.17 billion years

The age of the universe

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Here is why.

And here is why you're wrong:

1: Evolution is observable fact.
2: True Christians have no command against accepting observable fact.
3: Therefore, True Christians may accept evolution as fact.

QED

Some Christians have written off the Genesis account, because it's in the OT.
But Jesus quoted from the OT on numerous occasions himself when on earth, and in this area confirmed the Genesis creation account as told in Genesis. As Christians we don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what we like and dislike, or agree with or disagree with that is printed in the bible, especially if Jesus said it.
So here is the confirmation that God directly created humans, male & female.

And here is confirmation that you're taking the quotes out of context...

Matthew 19:4

"Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.'

Mathew 19:3-8

3: The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4: And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,
5: And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7: They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8: He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Jesus is talking about divorce. He didn't say "Because this is scientific fact", he is clearly using an analogy to not use divorce.

I didn't even need to research this one, I know the passage well because it's what the Catholics in my country use to keep divorce from ever happening over here.

Mark 10:6

But ‘God made them male and female’ from the beginning of creation

Same situation, Jesus is talking about divorce. You may as well take the parables all as true stories.

Any christian that has succumbed to the aggressive propaganda of the evolutionists in recent years, needs to reexamine their faith in the the bible, and Jesus words.

I'm sorry, they should actually examine the scientific evidence of the matter and not listen to people who are quote-mining their own purported messiah to support their views that go contrary to reality. There is no aggressive propaganda of 'evolutionists' in recent years, there is simply 151 years of established scientific fact supporting evolution.

This is such a basic simple teaching, yet evolutionists and atheists have done a good job at exploiting and abusing the field of science to support their idea's and they have had a measure of success in making some Christians doubt such a basic belief.

I'm sorry, but the majority of my friends who accept evolution are Christians. Some of them are incredibly devout. This issue is because I know more Christians than I know atheists, and a greater percentage of people over here accept evolution than over in the USA. Evolution doesn't abuse science, nor does it support atheism. One must be aware that science supports no religious belief nor does it support religious nonbelief. It may be able to object to specific reality claims, but those reality claims are not a basic belief.

The basic belief of Christianity is the a guy named Jesus who was the son of God/God in the flesh/the anointed one/etc died on the Cross and came back to life three days later. That's about all the Christians agree on. Some of them don't even agree as to exactly who Jesus is. The rest is complex doctrine, not simple belief.

If your faith has wavered in the telling of the Genesis account may it be restored with Jesus Christ personal confirmation, after all he was there when it happened, so he would know.

Did Jesus confirm the entire Genesis account? Seems not. He only confirms the passage of Genesis 1:27

1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

He doesn't say that evolution doesn't happen, he merely says that humans were originally created male and female by God, which is why divorce shouldn't happen.

Thread Note - Atheistic based trolling comments will be ignored.

I love it when religious people do this preemptively. I'm definitely not trolling, and my post is based in both science and the Bible, not atheism. Your statement is incorrect regardless of atheism existing. Evolution is compatible with any religion, just not with doctrines that conflict with scientific reality.

This thread is for Christians to comment, one way or another.

Nope, this thread is for the members of ATS to comment, one way or another. You don't get to exclude people from threads on a public forum.

Now, as for Jesus and science claims...Jesus wasn't a scientist. He got some basic things wrong, like botany.

Matthew:

13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Mustard seeds are neither the smallest seeds, nor are there any trees in the mustard family. But this is a parable about salvation, so its scientific accuracy doesn't matter, does it? Hmm...maybe, just maybe, Jesus was using a similar metaphor when disagreeing about divorce?

By the way, these are the smallest seeds

This line is also found in the source material, Mark.

Matthew (emphasis added)

24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The moon is not a light and the stars cannot fall from heaven. Either he's speaking in metaphor or the litera truth is that the moon is a light and the stars are suspended above the Earth. Now, if he's speaking in metaphor...maybe his objection to divorce had to do with speaking in metaphors too?

Furthermore, even if Jesus wasn't speaking in metaphor above, we know that the universe is older than humanity, that Earth is older than humanity, that life is older than humanity, and that life is older than gender distinctions through science. The same sort of process that went into the research that developed your computer is what went into developing those claims.

Now, are you saying, openly and honestly, that if the scientific evidence contradicts the Bible that you'll take the Bible over science?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

1: Evolution is observable fact.
2: True Christians have no command against accepting observable fact.
3: Therefore, True Christians may accept evolution as fact.

#1 is a false premise. Unless of course you are speaking of micro-Evolution, then your argument is the fallacy of equivocation.

So many threads of people searching for the truth of God. Or what God is ,what God has done or didn't do. Many replies are people desperate to believe what the Bible says literally. Why does it matter to you so much that God do something in a certain amount of time? Is because you feel you will lose faith if God does not do like you want?
Why does it matter to you that someone say we developed from evolving? What does that change? Because that is not the supernatural being you think of when you think of God? And if it did not happen the way it is stated in the Bible then..What?
Do you even know who God is? 15 billion years to creatures like humans sounds too mind boggling. We are only here for a short time, mostly less than a 100. To a being like God do you honestly think 15 billion years matters?
You are thinking in human terms, giving God human qualities and thinking for God. We are so young, and being young we are still learning. Why do you think we were not given all the info to start with?
When we fight wars in God's name ,we are not thinking about God..rather thinking for him. AND do all kinds of horrendous things to each other. Each side thinking God is on their side and condoning these terrifying acts of slaughter and murder.
Do you honestly think God would do all the vicious acts you read about in the Old testament.??

reply to post by Griffo

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by Seed76

 

Actually, it's a common misconception that it is that old, it is infact:

The estimated age of the universe is 13.75 ± 0.17 billion years

The age of the universe

I completely agree with that age, i do not disagree. But since you mentioned that then you must be aware that other methods, could give different ages or?

However, this age is based on the assumption that the project's underlying model is correct; other methods of estimating the age of the universe could give different ages. Assuming an extra background of relativistic particles, for example, can enlarge the error bars of the WMAP constraint by one order of magnitude.

The age of the universe

Anyway i have pointed out the Biblical Account of the age of the universe, in case you didn´t noticed. Which i also agree.

So now please explain why you pointing that to me?? or you think that i do not know the estimated age of the universe???

Peace