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Question Insanity: What to Ask Progressives

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posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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Ah foamfollower! you have become so terse. These tales yearn to be told in their fullness.

It is good to find another Thomas Covenant fan.

For Evil to triumph it is only necessary that good men do nothing!
edit on 12/29/2010 by Phedreus because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:33 PM
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Oh dear, looks like I am roasting in another troll bread.
A list of loaded questions? Not worth answering. I have learned the hard way that it is not worth it to respond to this kind of emotionally charged rhetoric.

Hefficide, for your bravery and bravado in defusing these bombs, I salute you and award you this Star of Merit.

reply to post by Hefficide
 


reply to post by MMPI2
 


oh god it begins again



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by MMPI2

well howdy there, sport...!

I thought you had disappeared off of this website!


Nope... Been here every single day actually. I guess you didn't wish for it hard enough. I hear that drawing a pentagram on the ground and then sacrificing a goat while chanting the name of Dick Cheney helps with these things! Just food for thought.


Originally posted by MMPI2

Read and learn...Read and learn.


I am looking forward to it.


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: The leadership of and the rank and file of the KKK has been entirely represented by democrats. Case closed.



David Ernest Duke (born July 1, 1950) is an American white nationalist, far-right activist and writer, and former Republican Louisiana State Representative. He was also a former candidate in the Republican presidential primaries in 1992, and in the Democratic presidential primaries in 1988. Duke has unsuccessfully run for the Louisiana State Senate, U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives, and Governor of Louisiana.

A former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, Duke describes himself as a racial realist, asserting that "all people have a basic human right to preserve their own heritage."He is a strong advocate of opposition to Zionism and the opposition to the Jewish people, as well as what he asserts to be both groups' control of the Federal Reserve, the federal government and the media. Duke supports anti-immigration, both legal and illegal, preservation of what he labels Western culture and traditionalist Christian "family values", strict Constitutionalism, abolition of the Internal Revenue Service, voluntary racial segregation, ardent anti-communism and white separatism.

Source

Seems you may have closed your case prematurely. I am not a doctor, but I predict that this premature thing is going to be a chronic part of this post... So be strong.


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: Segregationists that fought against the civil rights act were wholly democrat. Case closed.



The bill came before the full Senate for debate on March 30, 1964 and the "Southern Bloc" of 18 southern Democratic Senators and one Republican Senator led by Richard Russell (D-GA) launched a filibuster to prevent its passage.

Source

Wrong again... Bummer dude.


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: The men who killed MLK, Medgar Evers, the four little girls in Birmingham back in '63 were ALL democrats. Case closed.


I can link you to an article that says 85% of serial killers are republicans... But it would be just as unrelated to this thread as the statement you just made.


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: The 15th amendment, the federal reserve, the IRS and every single tax increase, including the largest increases in United States history have been orchestrated and authored by democrats/progressives. Case closed.



"Read my lips: no new taxes" is a now-famous phrase spoken by then presidential candidate George H. W. Bush at the 1988 Republican National Convention as he accepted the nomination on August 18. Written by speechwriter Peggy Noonan, the line was the most prominent sound bite from the speech. The pledge not to tax the American people further had been a consistent part of Bush's 1988 election platform, but its prominent inclusion in his speech cemented it in the public consciousness. The impact of the election promise was considerable, and many supporters of Bush believe it helped Bush win the 1988 presidential election.

Once he became president, however, Bush raised taxes as a way to reduce the national budget deficit. Bush refused many times but was making no progress with a Senate and House that was controlled by Democrats. Bush eventually agreed to a compromise with Congressional Democrats to raise several taxes as part of a 1990 budget agreement. This reversal caused great controversy, especially in the more conservative wing of the Republican Party. Although technically there were no new taxes in this agreement, Bush in the same speech also ruled out raising existing taxes. In the 1992 presidential election campaign, Pat Buchanan made extensive use of the phrase in his strong challenge to Bush in the Republican primaries. In the election itself, Democratic nominee Bill Clinton, running as a moderate, also pointed to the quotation as evidence of Bush's untrustworthiness, which contributed to Bush's losing his bid for re-election.

Source

Seriously, do you research these statements or just make them up and hope that they sound authoritative enough to intimidate others into not checking?

Read my lips, premature closure of case - yet again.


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: Trying to confuse an issue by attempting to cite obscure and manifestly irrelevant historical factoids is pointless, and an obvious sign of a weak argument. Democrats have been a corrupt party that has perpetuated hate for as long as they have been in existence. Case closed.


So, you're asserting that my facts are a weak argument against your unsourced and inaccurate opinions? Your definition of a weak argument is that the one with facts is the one in the position of weakness?

Really? In this instance "case closed" must be your version of "No fair, with facts and stuff...."


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: Barack Obama, Adolph Hitler, Josef Stalin, and every other murderous tyrant in history has been a classic statist. Case closed.


You do realize that lumping unrelated things into one sentence and then using that sentence as a definitive is not rational. Right?

Oh and for the record Ghengis Khan was not a statist. So again, case closed a bit prematurely.


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: The progressives (read - the old hippies and former card-carrying communists now wearing 4000$ suits in the white house) in the Obama administration have done more to undermine the bill of rights and the erode the notion of individual sovereignty than any other single group of people in this country's history. This is fact. Case closed.



o·pin·ion
   /əˈpɪnyən/ [uh-pin-yuhn]

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.



fact
   /fækt/ [fakt]

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.


These two things are different. They are not the same. These words have dissimilar definitions. They are not synonyms.

What you have stated here is uninformed opinion, created and evolved to support a paradigm. This, kiddies, is known as:


prop·a·gan·da
   /ˌprɒpəˈgændə/ [prop-uh-gan-duh]

1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.

Source for definitions


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: The current financial disaster facing our country and most of the modern world can be laid at the feet of american and european progressives. Case closed.


Here is an article entitled The Great Subprime Meltdown of 2007.. You do realize that There was a Republican in office for the 8 years preceding this event. Right?


Barack Hussein Obama II (Listeni /bəˈrɑːk huːˈseɪn oʊˈbɑːmə/; born August 4, 1961) is the 44th and current President of the United States. He is the first African American to hold the office. Obama previously served as a United States Senator from Illinois, from January 2005 until he resigned after his election to the presidency in November 2008.

Source

I suppose the linear progression of time qualifies as a " obscure and manifestly irrelevant historical factoid"?


Originally posted by MMPI2

FACT: Calling a question that you are incapable of answering either by virtue of lack of knowledge or general incapacity "devoid of substance or merit and is simply designed as an ad hom distraction" is a FAIL of the highest order. Case closed.


Yeah, I read this like 7 times and all that come to mind is "Wha????"


Originally posted by MMPI2

CASE CLOSED


No, actually in your case it is [B]MIND CLOSED[/B]. Is it lonely in there? Is it quiet?


Originally posted by MMPI2

Pack it up and go home.



I am home. It's not dark or lonely here either! I have books and the Google.



edit on 12/29/10 by Hefficide because: today is my 2012 for bbtags



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by kimar

2. I don't know anybody who promotes "equal pay for no work."


I'll stop you right there.

Know anyone that belongs to a union?

I do and can tell you plenty of first-hand accounts of what I call "shuffling about" to make it appear as if they are working, but really are not - for equal pay.

And then we can get into all the government entitlement programs that basically pay people not to work - equal pay for no work ...



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by Phedreus
 


Yes, the giant has become more obtuse and grating since the trip through the lava field.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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S&F for you, sir! Excellent site and a good read. I'm going to have to buy his book, I guess. So many books to read, so little time to read them.

/TOA



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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I came to ATS to get away from the right wing morons that invaded every other semi moderated board in this country, only to see they have invaded here as well. Let me see if I can answer these retarded, moronic questions, and also do a little editorializing of my own, oh and the howdy Skippy guy or whom ever. I have two words for you DAVID DUKE, so I am going to surmise the rest of your case closed arguments are equally fact-less lies as well. And to the other dim bulbs out there who want to say Dems are this and that. Why do blacks not participate in the republican party in any significant numbers yet flock to the evil racist dems? Since history and education are NOT the wing nut strong points allow me to introduce you to a subject you should study. The subject is called the Lincoln Douglas Debates, please read the dialog and get back to us about Lincolns thoughts on the “black man.”

Ok now the questions, Oh let me add…Ever notice wing nuts have to quote someone else or copy an others article to prove some point? It is as if they have never had an original thought of their own. Ok, here goes.

1:To answer the op. I wouldn’t, nor did I. Furthermore, I do not and did not support those who did.

2: All cultures are NOT equal. What a silly question. Man kind is seen as equal in the eyes of God.

3:Why would those “demanding” equal pay even care about pay for no work? What on earth? Is that even a question? No sane person thinks anyone should be given more based on zero merit.

4: I am sure the “fellows” that came up with the laws and ran on the issue of beating you wives with belts and the sizes allowed were pretty much all about men’s issues wouldn’t you? Look it up……Not to mention the legislature of the U.S. was an all male club, woman couldn’t even vote. So that alone tells me it was highly unlikely that men ran on any other platform than Men’s issues and created laws that benefited men.

5: All beliefs ARE NOT equally valid. Next.

6:No I have not noticed. I would be interested to know who has been saying that over and over and over so much so that I should have absorbed it through osmosis.

7:The “truth” is subjective that is why we have laws respecting the FREEDOM of speech in this country.

8:You guys need to find a new hero this is retarded. The answer is NO. the politician was elected by the poor, the author seems to equate poor with poverty. If so, this politician would be reelected in a landslide as he fulfilled his promise. Of course he or she would have to have a new platform now wouldn’t they? I am equally sure after fulfilling such a daunting task the next platform would be equally ambitious.

I some how feel like I need to go take a shower and try to regain those 20 IQ points I just lost by responding. Can’t you guys take this crap back to yahoo, freeperville, or Craigslist where it belongs? You make this place seem tawdry.

Oh can I ask a question now?

Are you still beating your wife? A simple yes or no will do please.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by soundguy
 


Perfect example. Thank you.

And if this thread was sooooo bad, you just made it better by proving my point.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by MMPI2
Most of your statists and liberal/progressives most likely can't comprehend these questions, much less develop answers for them.


edit on 29-12-2010 by MMPI2 because:


Yeah. No one has answered my questions. There are no libs/progressives/democrats that can. They will only respond with anger, invective, assault, or they pull out the exhausted distraction that they use when they have been soundly thrashed with truth.

I think, however, that the rank-and-file is starting to understand that "progressivism" is neither progressive nor honest. It is a new name for an ideology that is as old as man: rule and dominance of others.






posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by MMPI2
 


Hefficide answered your questions, even though they were loaded and dishonest questions like the ones in the OP. This guy. This guy right here. He answered your questions and then, when you gave a list of dismissive lies, he proved them false with evidence.

Of course, you will just dismiss me as a progressive troll despite knowing nothing about me or my beliefs. You will likely assume that I have the exact same beliefs that you think every Progressive has, just because I support Hefficide's debunking of dishonest loaded questions.

Even if you go over my posting history to try to prove me wrong in my above assumptions, I am sure that you will interpret my views incorrectly, as every right-winger on the site does. You will probably read "borders defy liberty" as "I hate America and want illegal immigrants to destroy it from within," as paranoid, proud right-wingers are wont to do.

There is nothing I can do to deter you from thinking that I and Hefficide and anyone else who disagrees with you is a progressivist racist socialist communist KKK nazi America-hater. The endorphin rush you get from that feeling of smug superiority over left-wingers is an addictive high.

edit: he or she.
edit on 30-12-2010 by SmedleyBurlap because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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I still find it funny people do not want to even attempt to answer the questions.

The funny part is that they are simple. They are not a big or twisted trick. They are basic questions.

The reason people get all apopleptic about, is because it breaks down the cognitive dissonance that is in your mind and you begin to lose that BOX you have been placed in and are afraid to come out of.

It is FUNNY that these questions drive people batty.

You should REALLY go read the rest of the article, you may have a breakdown though.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Now, I need some clarification. Do you honestly not see how these are loaded questions that cannot be fairly answered without deconstructing them, or are you trying to get a rise out of people? You certainly seem to enjoy getting a rise out of people, so I am inclined to think that this is the reason you posted this thread. I am giving you (and others) the benefit of the doubt and considering the possibility that this is just a failure of communication. Maybe neither "side" knows how to ask fair questions of the other side, maybe every "side" is completely unable to see things from their opponents' perspective. That would go a long way towards explaining why political discourse in America is so terrible.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Instead of attacking progressives, you should be attacking ALL viewpoints equally.

Why do I get the feeling that you are nothing more than a political shill with right-wing leanings?



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


Why should anyone be motivated to attack all viewpoints equally?

People believe different things. Ideologies aren't all created equal.

Furthermore, if all ideologies are equal then why is being right wing
such illegitimate ideology? See my point?
edit on 31-12-2010 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by kimar

2. I don't know anybody who promotes "equal pay for no work."


I'll stop you right there.

Know anyone that belongs to a union?

I do and can tell you plenty of first-hand accounts of what I call "shuffling about" to make it appear as if they are working, but really are not - for equal pay.

And then we can get into all the government entitlement programs that basically pay people not to work - equal pay for no work ...


Its funny man - this is bagging a whole group of people, shoving them into one box... Reminds me of other interesting attitudes, it is the base premise and you are infected. all hail - those filthy scum, and
they actually eats out of rubbish bins... Its like you can't help or dilute your fundamental ignorance



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Instead of attacking progressives, you should be attacking ALL viewpoints equally.

Why do I get the feeling that you are nothing more than a political shill with right-wing leanings?


Foam is what he is...
He has leanings, we all have them... I think he can see, but I think it is hard to accept the faults that inhabit your
beliefs and ideas. Unfortunately some of these failure completely undermine other facets of the same general outlook. I bet you and he could sit in a room and agree upon many potential SOLUTIONS if you tried.
It is the sport of it that really messes us up
edit on 31-12-2010 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Now, I need some clarification. Do you honestly not see how these are loaded questions that cannot be fairly answered without deconstructing them, or are you trying to get a rise out of people? You certainly seem to enjoy getting a rise out of people, so I am inclined to think that this is the reason you posted this thread. I am giving you (and others) the benefit of the doubt and considering the possibility that this is just a failure of communication. Maybe neither "side" knows how to ask fair questions of the other side, maybe every "side" is completely unable to see things from their opponents' perspective. That would go a long way towards explaining why political discourse in America is so terrible.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
No one has answered these questions. More specifically, no one has formulated an answer that is honest and addresses the substance of the issues presented.

The only legitimate answers to ANY of the questions posed is a very simple: "I didn't know that"
or "I don't know the answer to that question."

The reasons that an "I didn't know that" or an "I don't know the answer to that" response are the only possible legit answers are as follows:

1) Most "progressives" have no idea about or conception of the history of the ideology they support. They are clueless. The democrat party is based in racism, hate, and elitism that sought to trample the rights of others. The "progressive" agenda has been a masterfully crafted psychological operation that has duped millions. Your rank and file progressive, if he understood this, would run screaming from the poison ideology he supports.

2) Any response other than "I didn't know" requires "deconstruction". Deconstruction of these questions implies that the respondent is denying reality, is glossing over the brutality of the true progressive agenda through distraction and denial, and is PERPETUATING "LIBERAL" LIES IN A CONSCIOUS AND DELIBERATE WAY.

The facts are clear and undeniable. Liberals/Progressives and their desires to control others are at the heart of every anti-human act in modern history. Eugenics, Nazism, Communism, genocide, genetic poverty, chronic underclasses, statism and racism lies at the feet of the progressive grandfathers, who have birthed yet another generation of dupes who don't seem willing to understand the deadly error of their ways.




posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap


Hefficide, for your bravery and bravado in defusing these bombs, I salute you and award you this Star of Merit.




BTW, are you guys "special friends" or something? Is this gonna lead to some kind of love-in, where you two end up rubbing each others' backs with scented oils by candlelight?




posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by MMPI2
 


These 'questions' are infantile and moronic.
They have no basis in reality,they do nothing but clearly illustrate your inability to understand any of the political terms you are using.
Seriously ,pick up a book...seek education....Turn off Beck...



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by saltheart foamfollower
 


Instead of attacking progressives, you should be attacking ALL viewpoints equally.

Why do I get the feeling that you are nothing more than a political shill with right-wing leanings?


Foam is what he is...
He has leanings, we all have them... I think he can see, but I think it is hard to accept the faults that inhabit your
beliefs and ideas. Unfortunately some of these failure completely undermine other facets of the same general outlook. I bet you and he could sit in a room and agree upon many potential SOLUTIONS if you tried.
It is the sport of it that really messes us up
edit on 31-12-2010 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)


I agree.

Foam is an honest person who has done some soul-searching, and then looked at history thru a truly objective lens.

His "leanings" have their genesis in recognizing that liberals/progressives and statists preach an extremely toxic doctrine, and that the only solution is to shine a light of truth and honesty on the dishonest understructure of the progressives' thought processes.



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