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Legislators confronted with chemtrail concerns

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


Reading your posts is a waste of time. Your "signature" shows your close minded ignorance.

You cannot deny ignorance and go to church at the same time. (especially and LDS one)

Just because you don't have a degree in meteorology or aviation doesn't mean you me or anyone else can't use intelligence to see the obvious.




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by nottheonlyone
 





Eward Griffin co directed the documentary that Karen Johnson dropped off at the house and senate. Oh and don't worry he has real scientists testing this stuff.


I watched the video in your link, and all Mr. Griffin did was regurgitate all the non-sense from "What in the world are they spraying", nothing original, no nothing new, nada.

The constant plugs for infowars, and Alex Jones were classy though.



I would also like to point out that the charts of earthquakes in previous posts were of US locations only.


Please re-read the charts again.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 




stars15k is kind of a secluded uneducated housewife


Says who? Hardly secluded, nor uneducated. I absolutely understand everything I read about the subject, including the scholarly works produced over the past 80 years. Being intelligent has no bearing on one's sex, employment, interests, or even education. It never has.

And I know you cannot possibly see anything about chemical content or intent, especially about something done miles away. You see something you don't choose to understand the mechanics of. I understand the mechanics of the formation and persistence of contrails. I understand that there is not any valid test of a trail taken in situ that has ever shown anything close to what "chemtrails" are claimed to be. I understand that a ground level test is invalid without excluding all possible contributions of the elements being tested.

People who continue to think they can tell chemical content from an ethereal form miles over their head are seriously deluded. There is not a better way to say it.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by stars15k

reply to post by shagreen heart
 




they are spraying, because normally, the natural vapor trail effervesces very quickly and dissapears into the atmosphere, simple as that.


The only people who teach and believe this are "chemtrailers". A contrail (what you see) is water and pollutants. A cloud is water and pollutants. Therefore a contrail will act like a cloud. Clouds do not disperse quickly, do they? They can last for hours and travel for miles.



watched the metallic particulate sparkle down on them

And they tested these particles to see their content? Lots of things sparkle in a flashlight. Like dust. How could they determine where the particles came from? Just making the claim doesn't make it so. There are other easier sources for sparkly dust than a planes exhaust 30,000+ away.




see how much aluminum you're carrying, how much aluminum is in your soil, water, flora and fauna in your area.

Or you could look up the aluminum sources. Aluminum is the most abundant metallic in the ground and the third most abundant element. Aluminum is everywhere. It always has been. All tests I've seen from "chemtrail" sources are ground based and do not take into account all other possible sources......like dirt. If it's in the dirt, it's in the air. And the source (looks like an advertisement of sorts), states that.
I've watched planes throughout my life as well. I'm 49. The trails back then (and in all the pictures of skies taken since the end of World War I) are like the trails now. There are more planes now, so there will be more trails.


i'm never going to believe anyone is right or wrong about this until we know. unfortunately there are a lot of farfetched theories that try to rationalize the chemtrail conspiracy.
where in the world do you live? here in the midwest, we get really hard by it. some days it's a pure grid that stretches across as far as i can see. these aren't flight paths, because if you keep watching, no other clouds form in the area, and the "contrails" quickly turn into what looks exactly like full on clouds, with the exception that they are ridiculously huge and gridded, which really bothers the eyes to look at. i never see normal clouds any more, it truly breaks my heart. i have NO idea what i'm looking at when i see these clouds in the sky. no more huge amorphous white beings in the sky to play paradolia with. everything i see is a result of a "contrail" now. i noticed this phenomenon long before i got in to or even heard of the "chemtrail conspiracy". either there are days of no clouds whatosever, or they're the gross seeded grid of clouds.

it makes no sense that plane exhaust is the cause of this. you may have misspoke when you said spraying, because what you should have said was exhaust in your reply. normal exhaust can't have the same effect, despite them being the same ingredients for a cloud due to sheer quantity. i have a very difficult time believing this is exhaust when all my life i have seen the small vapor trails behind the tiny ant sized planes in the sky dissapear. and i sometimes still see planes who's trails effervesce naturally. so... what's the difference?

and yes, back before the chemtrail conspiracy was so huge and mainstream, my friends, who live out on a farm and spend a lot of time looking up at the sky at night were noticing these new clouds that didn't make any sense. they can take all day to form, and slowly they fall apart after getting bigger and bigger and you can tell that they are actually falling down in altitude if you really spend time to observe them. most people this day and age only see them when they're driving somehwere, and then they don't think about them or care. anyway, it was bothering them, and some clouds had still been falling after dark, and they simply shone these concentrated flashlights into the sky, and you could literally see the particulate shimmering down from them. yes, they got their soil tested, they're farmers, and it was conclusive for aluminum, barium, and silver iodide.

that's true about aluminum, i can't argue with that at all, however, (big however) aluminum doesn't get around (on it's own, that is). in fact i don't even see how aluminum could evaporate and go through the rain cycle on it's own. true, aluminum is extremely abundant, and the amount of aluminum cans, foil, and all products with it might seem like they could be doing this, but it simply doesn't make sense that these isolated products are inundating remote, untouched regions to extremely toxic levels.
and to argue the ground testing statement, all you have to do to debunk that is just go back and compare records. did a pond 20 years ago have outrageous aluminum and barium toxicity? it's not just aluminum, bear in mind.

then, when you hear about special interest groups who want to use the exact same procedures and use the EXACT SAME METHODS (spraying chaff of aluminum, barium, silver oxide) from jets to manipulate the weather for weather defense hypothetics, it all becomes a bit uncanny. tesla invented this weather technology. tesla without a doubt created this current world we live in, his genius should be thanked everyday for the world he created for us. his life work was raided and never heard from again by government goons. why is it so hard to put pieces together and see that something isn't right, that there does seem to be an agenda that has controlling the weather for whatever reason in mind? the tech is real, russia employs it, you've even heard israel threatening to use it. for WHATEVER reason, possibly as simple as a new means of warfare, our government practices using it almost every day here in this country. for those that don't see it, i just simply don't know what is wrong with you, please look up and think for yourselves.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by stars15k
 


Reading your posts is a waste of time. Your "signature"(1) shows your(2) close(3) minded ignorance.

You cannot deny ignorance and go to church at the same time. (especially and(4) LDS one)(5)

Just because you don't have a degree in meteorology or aviation doesn't mean you(6) me or anyone else can't use intelligence to see the obvious(7).


(1) It is a signature, it does not need "".
(2) Should be "you're" or "you are"
(3) Needs a hyphen.
(4) Should be "an"
(5) No puncuation
(6) Needs comma
(7) Claiming an impossibility; you cannot possibly "see" chemical content of anything

People, very intelligent people, have, do and will be able to balance a scientific mind with a belief in a Spiritual side. Because you do not does not matter to me. That I do should not matter to you. That is prejudicial; prejudice shows intolerance and ignorance. It's also a personal attack.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by dplum517
 


Here is a very interesting site that I think you would like.

flickrhivemind.net...

Here is something that I found and thought I would share...



Seeing the obvious. That's funny. These contrails look very familiar but I just can't pin point where I have seen them. Oh crap that's right this is what some swear are chemtrails not contrails.


Well these are nothing but contrails, not chemtrails. Please go to link above and enjoy the contrail pics. You may see something that is nuts,looney or whatever else you want to say, but just remember this Contrails can be seen in a grid pattern also but I will let you digest this for a while and will check up on you later. Enjoy.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


LOL @ You.

Okay grammar Nazi. Sorry I didn't proof read my post... oh noooooo!!

You are petty.
Also, when was I being prejudice?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by shagreen heart
 


Interesting,



here in the midwest, we get really hard by it. some days it's a pure grid that stretches across as far as i can see. these aren't flight paths, because if you keep watching, no other clouds form in the area, and the "contrails" quickly turn into what looks exactly like full on clouds, with the exception that they are ridiculously huge and gridded, which really bothers the eyes to look at.


Here is a link to some photos you may want to look at..

flickrhivemind.net...



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by shagreen heart
 


I have lived my entire life in NE Indiana. I have also seen contrails my entire life. There are more planes flying now, so there will be more contrails. They have always looked like they do now. I am 49 years old. There are also pictures of contrails from as far back as pictures could be taken and planes flew. There is available on the internet over 80 years of scientific study on contrails, and those studies still are usable today. Contrails have been know to spread out into a cirrus cloud layer. The persistence and spread is the major focus of ongoing study; the impact they have on weather is still unknown.
You are always looking at normal clouds. A normal cloud contains about 550 TONS of water each. That is more than can possibly be sprayed. All grids show is that planes fly in many directions. A contrail will follow the plane. A plane flying N-S will cross a contrail from a plane flying E-W. More planes, more contrails, and you have a grid.
You can look up in almost realtime what each plane over your head is. I do this often. Go to
FlightAware--Live Flight Tracking
There are a heck of a lot of planes flying over any place at anytime in the US. Air traffic has increased and will continue to increase. More airplanes, more contrails.
Contrails can and do make big banks of clouds. What exhaust provides is nucleation particles. These make water already present in the atmosphere condense to a quantity that just might be visible.
Clouds settling down to the ground from flight level cannot happen; it takes at least 24 hours for the particles of clouds to settle, more if you consider wind and updrafts. What you saw was fog. Water droplets in fog are highly reflexive and will sparkle in the beam of a flashlight.
Tests from 20 years ago compared to tests of today would still have to account for all other possible sources of aluminum and there are very few places that haven't had an increase in people and industry in 20 years. The problem with ground level samples remains the same--Where did the aluminum come from? It hasn't been able to be traced back to the exhaust of an airplane or any other source from above. When it is the third most abundant element, it's everywhere.
Lastly:



i just simply don't know what is wrong with you, please look up and think for yourselves.

Nothing is wrong with me. I understand the weather, clouds, chemistry, geology, and all the basics in the formation of the white lines you see behind planes. I have looked it up and I do think for myself. When there was something on a "chemtrail" site I did not understand, I researched it. That way I was able to see that what the "chemtrail" proponents were saying is not right. And that science was right. It explains everything about what people are claiming to be "chemtrails". It also shows "chemtrails" as a theory would not work. When there are no tests that conclusively show "chem-" in a trail, when there are no people lining up to be the whistle-blower on the whole huge scheme that would be needed, and when the people who claim there are "chemtrails" cannot even agree with the who, what, and why, it's three strikes and out.
I want to know about what I see in the sky, not just "believe" a story with no proof.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


i checked out the pictures in your first post. if i knew more about aviation, i would have more to add, but i simply know nothing about different plane types. all very interesting and confusing.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by shagreen heart
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


i checked out the pictures in your first post. if i knew more about aviation, i would have more to add, but i simply know nothing about different plane types. all very interesting and confusing.


Just do some research and learn. That is thinking for yourself.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


well, i can't argue with anything in your first few paragraphs. and i wasn't directing that last statement of mine at you by any means. i meant normal, every day people that don't seem to question why the contrails of jets/planes/whatever constitute for almost all cloud cover in the sky, or aids in the formation of. honestly, it makes no sense the exact same trail becomes a cloud in the exact same place in the sky and remains there all day.

so again, sorry, i didn't direct that at you personally, i just want everyone to question everything all the time or we'll all be lead off a cliff eventually.

but what about the weather manipulation techniques, like they were discussing and planning in the beginning of that documentary? or tesla, or the other countries that emulate weather manipulation in some way? i hesitate to mention HAARP, but it appears to serve no other purpose. anything can be manipulated with the right frequencies.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


Then why do you suppose there's a controversy over this then?

Do you think we don't have ENOUGH crap to deal with? Are we just bored and are looking for things to complain about? Do you think we are looking for an excuse to be cynical?

C'mon people.

Yeah...contrails are a great explanation for perhaps..... half of them a quarter of the time!

I am your age (50) and I have noticed a remarkable difference in my skies. I am from an aviation family so planes are not new to me at all. In fact, I grew up around planes and airports and flew my entire life!!!

This is just incredibly confusing. Not so much these chemtrails but the blatant disregard towards them for some of you. I hate to say this but I really REALLY wonder if some of you people aren't government plants.

You know why I say this? Because whenever I point these trails out to the average (previously unaware) person either on the beach or a park, they are amazed. Not one time has ANYONE ever turned to me and said "Oh come on man, those are only contrails".
Never
But on these forums there are a WHOLE bunch of you saying that. Why is that I wonder?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by stars15k

Originally posted by shagreen heart
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


i checked out the pictures in your first post. if i knew more about aviation, i would have more to add, but i simply know nothing about different plane types. all very interesting and confusing.


Just do some research and learn. That is thinking for yourself.


this is just going to sound so counter-productive but have zero interest in learning and distinguishing plane types and spending time with binoculars hoping to see them. hahaha, soooo boooring x(. i'm just being honest. what matters most to me is the health of the people.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by stars15k
 


Then why do you suppose there's a controversy over this then?

Do you think we don't have ENOUGH crap to deal with? Are we just bored and are looking for things to complain about? Do you think we are looking for an excuse to be cynical?

C'mon people.

Yeah...contrails are a great explanation for perhaps..... half of them a quarter of the time!

I am your age (50) and I have noticed a remarkable difference in my skies. I am from an aviation family so planes are not new to me at all. In fact, I grew up around planes and airports and flew my entire life!!!

This is just incredibly confusing. Not so much these chemtrails but the blatant disregard towards them for some of you. I hate to say this but I really REALLY wonder if some of you people aren't government plants.

You know why I say this? Because whenever I point these trails out to the average (previously unaware) person either on the beach or a park, they are amazed. Not one time has ANYONE ever turned to me and said "Oh come on man, those are only contrails".
Never
But on these forums there are a WHOLE bunch of you saying that. Why is that I wonder?



legit questions. i'm less than half the age of you guys... but still, this is something that seems to bother me deeply in the back of my head. and you're completely right, there is so much more to worry about, pick any forum on this website (except hoax, please). it's a truly divisive subject. i know i can't add much to the discussion (and i really hope were done with the petty arguing and trolling), but i'm still inclined to care about hte "conspiratorial" nature of this because of the health effects it could have on our country. aluminum toxicity might not seem like a major problem on the surface, but all the problems that can come with it can simply wear your body down more and more. alzhiemers is the 7th leading cause of death in the US.

chemtrail or contrail, or something as extreme as banning all aluminum in any products, it's affecting us extremely negatively.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by shagreen heart
 


I appreciate your comment!

We don't know what's falling (or the fallout) from this so we have to be careful what we're blaming what on. After all, that just gives the other side more ammunition to fire back on us.

I personally feel some of these air-sprays are detrimental to our health. But that's just my personal opinion. I have absolutely nothing to back my opinion up but let it be known, sinus infections, upper respiratory conditions, Alzheimer, autism, depression, bi-polar, attention deficit disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder etc, just to name a few 'conditions' ...........are on an all time, increase.

Chemtrails = Big Pharma = Media?

That's what I think some of them are doing.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by shagreen heart
 

They are spraying, make no mistake.
What we are witnessing...why we have a coordinated effort to mislead us and make us think this is all normal, is because there is simply a lot of money at stake.
Many scientists, engineers, and other professionals are paid to produce a product, like "scientific justification" for whatever it is that big corporations want to do. Gone are the days of legitimate government, you must reconcile yourself with that first.
Climategate revealed to us that scientists can be bought, and internationally acclaimed scientists are often just "international" and "acclaimed" because they are given the spotlight, and they are told what "science" is needed for grants to be made available.
I sort of feel sorry for the youth, today. I am older than the others here that have said their age, but it shouldn't matter. We all should be sad for the fact that you are lied to by people you should be able to trust. When money is involved, however, the "corporatists" will go to any lengths to mislead and frame the reality the way they can find their obscene profits. Yes, even sending im"posters" here.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 





Chemtrails = Big Pharma = Media?


Lets imagine for a minute that chemtrails are real, and big pharma is in fact behind it.

Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and just make WAY more sense to put nefarious chemicals in the medications that billions of people ALREADY take, as opposed to coordinating a multi-million person conspiracy worldwide that has a very low probability of actually reaching its intended targets?

Why not the water supply, foods, vitamins, medication, etc. Things that people are guaranteed to ingest?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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I would like to make a wager. A wager towards integrity not money.

Many of you are excusing these trails with the reasoning of "there are just more planes in the sky thus, we are seeing more contrails"

Okay.

Let me be with you on this for a moment.

Can we turn back the clock please?

Now according to you this isn't a new phenomenon, just a more obvious one, correct? So, the science now was still the science back then, right?

Can you show me ONE photo of any criss-crossing long lasting "CONTRAIL" at any given airport from...........let's say the 60's 70's or 80's?

Please?

Go ahead. There haven't been that many more new airports built since then. So show me ONE photo from any stockpile of archival photos from LAX, Newark, O'Hara, Miami or wherever showing plain o' planes, leaving these 'trails' either ascending, descending or on their given flight path criss-crossing other planes.

Because that IS your argument, right? Surely rush hour back then must've produced more than a dozen planes coming in or going out of airports back then....so show us ONE photo of this.

Go ahead. Put your photo where your font is and show us the photos!!!!

And if you can't then.....I respectfully ask you to give it up and go debunk something else. Because what are your words without proof????
We at least HAVE the proof only, you don't want to accept it.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by ZombieJesus
reply to post by Human_Alien
 





Chemtrails = Big Pharma = Media?


Lets imagine for a minute that chemtrails are real, and big pharma is in fact behind it.

Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and just make WAY more sense to put nefarious chemicals in the medications that billions of people ALREADY take, as opposed to coordinating a multi-million person conspiracy worldwide that has a very low probability of actually reaching its intended targets?

Why not the water supply, foods, vitamins, medication, etc. Things that people are guaranteed to ingest?



they already do that. but those things you can avoid. you can't avoid air, or when it gets in your water supply, it gets in the food you grow. then you're clumped in with everyone else. here's a the aluminum detox link again: www.detox-central.com...

very simple ingredients, mix easily in meals (for convenience) and are all delicious.




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