I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
I never said anything about employment, simply about the fact that he has excuses as to why he, allegedly, makes only $50 a month. His health is so bad that he can't go to the nearest public transport stop, but he won't get disability (how does he get food?), he has no job because of this distance/health issue yet he refuses to get welfare. In other words he refuses to do anything about his situation but anyone who does not feel bad for him and get angry at the system is a horrible person. What a joke.

I don't like freeloaders and I worked all of my life (when I was not busy studying for work), so don't get me wrong. Maybe I'd still extend some benefit of the doubt -- for example, I have a torn meniscus, and walking a mile and a half to the bus stop would be a veritable torture for me. Sorry.

The bigger issue is still not the person, but the way the existing system treats you. As I posted before, I have decent insurance and yet the expenses bite once in a while. What's really happening is that the employers in many cases do a good job of insuring their employees, but these monies get siphoned out by out-of-control billing. 11 grand for a trivial visit? Puh-leeze. I was in a minor car accident once, spent like half an hour doing the paperwork in the ER (!!!) and then was interviewed by 2 nurses and a doctor and waited for 3 more hours just sitting there, no extensive tests or X-rays, got two tabs of Tylenol to ease pain and I also got a $2,500 bill in the mail.

If you don't think the system is rigged beyond any form or shape, you are delusional.

I'd like to ask you people something....
If you are married, and if one of yous is working and the other is not....
do you feel that the one who isn't working should have free access to the money that their spouse has earned? or do you think that the one who earns the money should have a little more say in the matter?

just wondering here....

as far as being able to walk to the bus stop...
if I didn't have my car, I wouldn't be working. ain't qualified for disability, you need to be willing to go to the doctor and spend a ton a money to convince a doctor that you really have a problem for that one, and then...you have to keep going back, so that doctor will be willing to keep stating that you are incapable. And, well, there are income restrictions on weather or not the gov't will help you with those bills, even if you are disabled!!
so well....if one isn't working because they are hurt, or sick, and their spouse has a choice, either pay the rent, put food on the table, ect. or pay a bunch of medical bills and let the family live on the street.....and the shelter and food.
well....whatcha say...should the nonworking spouse run up a bunch of medical bills knowing danged well that they aren't gonna get paid???

life is far more complicated than some seem to realize!

reply to post by groingrinder

Originally posted by groingrinder
I had an EKG and a urine test and a ultrasound. Plus some intravenous pain killer. My hands are shaking uncontrollably right now because I am so ticked off. MEDICINE SHOULD NOT COST THIS MUCH. I have lost my job and make $50.00 dollars a month. To be fair I must say that Banner Baywood discounted my bill by $8,000.00 so that my final bill is only $3,000.00, but I still cannot pay that when I only have fifty bucks a month coming in. I owe the Radiologist $460.00 dollars for their test and I still have not gotten the bill from the ER doctor who will bill separately. I will update this thread after I talk to the financial responsibility representative from Banner Baywood.

Perhaps the time has come to give up the scam that is the orthodox medical system, start taking responsibility for your own health and get on board with Natural Hygiene. You could try a half-way measure and spend your money on holistic treatments and remedies but you'd only be exchanging one exhorbitant racket for one slightly-less exhorbitant and any gains are likely to be minor by comparison with NH.

With NH, you get a real-science-proven lifestyle that takes you back to the natural laws of health and practitioners who genuinely care about seeing you fully recovered, not just hooked on their products. You know this is true because they don't sell products! They may sell their own books about Natural Hygiene but they are optional although useful to help you learn a truly different lifestyle. 75% or more of their literature is available free on the net.

Start by referring to the INHS website but feel free to come back to me if you have trouble finding your way.

Originally posted by Shamanistical

Originally posted by blupblup
You don't get it do you....

You think it's okay for one human to use another human being for ones own PERSONAL benefit and gain? That should be a right? I will NEVER feel that is right OR a right.

Then you need to live in the woods and cease availing yourself of any of the benefits of civilization. Make sure to carry your sh*& to the woods instead of driving on those "socialist" roads.

"One human using another human being for ones own PERSONAL benefit and gain" is the very premise of civilization.

One man and his family is vulnerable in a tribal landscape...gather together with other families and people and create a common defense system, village, town, city, country...each "human" benefits from the common security.

Education: The hunters gather together and the best hunter shares his knowledge and all of the hunters become more productive. Each individual benefits from more food and less time hunting.

Ditto the basket weavers...and yes the healers.

AND where a lone hunter or provider of the community might perish alone from an illness...a time when they could not feed or provide for themselves...amongst a community they instead recover with the care and assitance of the tribe...and they return to productivity...providing again for other members of the tribe. Everyone benefits.

What does things like Security/Defense? Illness/Injury? Education? have in common? They all benefit the society at large and by extension every member of the tribe as individuals...far in excess of thier individual contributions.

2+2 = 10 One man cannot defend his family from another tribe...The task is overwhelming and a lost cause..but gather together with other families?

The other common denominator? Violence, attacks, illness, injury etc. do not factor into supply/demand, price elasticity etc.

North Korea does not look to the Nasdaq to determine it's aggressive policies...cancer does not only strike those who can afford to treat it...and we don't negotiate the price of an ambulance ride when we need one. Illness, accidents, aggressive nations, crime etc. could care less about capitalism...there is a constant supply of those things regardless of work output, price, supply, demand...no place in the capitalistic equation.

They are not part of capitalism...that is why healthcare and defense have been "socialized"...a given benefit of joining a "tribe" since humans learned to walk upright.

Hell ...even apes and monkeys know the benefits of gathering together into a tribe. If they could speak they would likely look at the USA and say WTF...these humans are as dumb as rocks...and what the hell is "socialismm" anyways?

Fixed game (fixed demand - not tethered to any capitalistic equation) to benefit those Millionaires and Billionaires that reap the rewards of a rigged healthcare system...everyone gets sick or injured...pay what we tell you or suffer and die.

Again...I love capitalism...capitalism rocks...Healthcare has nothing to do with it. Never has...our system is a funhouse mirror reflection of the healthcare system that has provided for human beings for thousands of years.

reply to post by maybereal11

Originally posted by maybereal11

"One human using another human being for ones own PERSONAL benefit and gain" is the very premise of civilization.

Although I agree with most of your message here, I must point out that what you're describing is people cooperating with each other for the common good. It is not the same as using or exploiting others. It's the mutual and equal benefit that makes the difference. Getting rich on the backs of drudges that you pay a relative pittance to is using people.

North Korea does not look to the Nasdaq to determine it's aggressive policies...cancer does not only strike those who can afford to treat it...and we don't negotiate the price of an ambulance ride when we need one. Illness, accidents, aggressive nations, crime etc. could care less about capitalism...there is a constant supply of those things regardless of work output, price, supply, demand...no place in the capitalistic equation.

Why mention North Korea as a nation with aggressive policies? When was the last time that they invaded another country? If you want a modern day example, you have to use the USA because nobody else even comes close for aggression.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
I never said anything about employment, simply about the fact that he has excuses as to why he, allegedly, makes only $50 a month. His health is so bad that he can't go to the nearest public transport stop, but he won't get disability (how does he get food?), he has no job because of this distance/health issue yet he refuses to get welfare. In other words he refuses to do anything about his situation but anyone who does not feel bad for him and get angry at the system is a horrible person. What a joke.

I don't like freeloaders and I worked all of my life (when I was not busy studying for work), so don't get me wrong. Maybe I'd still extend some benefit of the doubt -- for example, I have a torn meniscus, and walking a mile and a half to the bus stop would be a veritable torture for me. Sorry.

The bigger issue is still not the person, but the way the existing system treats you. As I posted before, I have decent insurance and yet the expenses bite once in a while. What's really happening is that the employers in many cases do a good job of insuring their employees, but these monies get siphoned out by out-of-control billing. 11 grand for a trivial visit? Puh-leeze. I was in a minor car accident once, spent like half an hour doing the paperwork in the ER (!!!) and then was interviewed by 2 nurses and a doctor and waited for 3 more hours just sitting there, no extensive tests or X-rays, got two tabs of Tylenol to ease pain and I also got a $2,500 bill in the mail.

If you don't think the system is rigged beyond any form or shape, you are delusional.

1) Yet you speak nothing of his abject refusal to get any financial help with his situation.

2) Where did I say anything about the bills? I am simply speaking of his story that is either complete BS or simply someone who is too stupid to take care o himself.

reply to post by backwherewestarted


or someone that is in a situation that you haven't considered!!!
maybe his wife works some, so well, although he only makes $50..he still isn't eligible for the assistance?

I'll ask the question again, if you are married, and you are working and you spouse is not, do you feel you should have more of a say as to where your money is going than your spouse does? If you told your spouse that there was only enough money pay the bills, would you get upset with your spouse if they went out and bought the kids the clothing, that they needed, but you just didn't have the money for?

Originally posted by dawnstar
I'd like to ask you people something....
If you are married, and if one of yous is working and the other is not....
do you feel that the one who isn't working should have free access to the money that their spouse has earned? or do you think that the one who earns the money should have a little more say in the matter?

just wondering here....

Depends on how and what you equate as work.

My wife is stay at home and I work. We break down our expendables as follows.

(Paycheque - living expenses - nestegg) / 2 = Individual expendable income.

This is how much either of us can spend without consulting the other.

Any purchase above that point requires both of our consent. (50/50 relationship).

We both feel this is fair due to her "work" being at home and my "work" being at work, which doesn't change the fact that we both "work"

I wont BS you, the occasional feeling of resentment do pop up, for her it is usually my freedom of movement (hard to get out with kids in tow) and for me it is the relaxed pace of her day (my job can get very hectic). But, as long as we talk openly and honestly about our feelings, we can resolve the issues quickly.

reply to post by peck420

I wasn't trying to imply that stay at home mom's didn't work, I was one for years...and when I finally did go back into the workforce, it was like a vaction to me...

I found that problems cropped up when there was the money to fill the needs, and well, my husband is the type, it's his money, period...
so, well, when it comes to healthcare, I don't qualify for crap, but I still just look at my paycheck when it comes to weather or not I can afford anything, since I really can't depend on his....and since I can't even afford to be able to share all the bills equally, well, I can't afford much!

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

or someone that is in a situation that you haven't considered!!!
maybe his wife works some, so well, although he only makes $50..he still isn't eligible for the assistance?

I'll ask the question again, if you are married, and you are working and you spouse is not, do you feel you should have more of a say as to where your money is going than your spouse does? If you told your spouse that there was only enough money pay the bills, would you get upset with your spouse if they went out and bought the kids the clothing, that they needed, but you just didn't have the money for?

1) Clearly you did not read his posts about his situation.

2) Once again this has nothing to do with what I am discussing.

oh...I'm sorry, it's not a working wife that is keeping him from getting benefits...
it's his elderly father that he lives with who is getting social security...
which, well....
is about the same, if he goes to apply for assistance, they are going to ask about the HOUSEHOLD INCOME and how many are in the house, and then look at his elderly fathers retirement benefits, and decide that those are sufficient to cover his medical care....

but, same difference, really, they are assuming that he has the legal right to take from his father, to pay for himeself, which he doesn't!.

Originally posted by dawnstar
oh...I'm sorry, it's not a working wife that is keeping him from getting benefits...
it's his elderly father that he lives with who is getting social security...
which, well....
is about the same, if he goes to apply for assistance, they are going to ask about the HOUSEHOLD INCOME and how many are in the house, and then look at his elderly fathers retirement benefits, and decide that those are sufficient to cover his medical care....

but, same difference, really, they are assuming that he has the legal right to take from his father, to pay for himeself, which he doesn't!.

You continue to ignore certain things he himself claimed as facts in order to defend him.

Originally posted by LarryLove
And you all complain about our 'socialist' UK medical system.

Believe me, it is at time like this that a national medical system serves all people - rich or poor.

Edit to say: Obama might be on to something even though the vast majority think he is a Communist. Time to rethink your attitudes towards medicine and stop the insurance profit machine.

To the OP: I hope you find a way out of your financial situation and get well soon.

edit on 28-12-2010 by LarryLove because: (no reason given)

You seem to have been successfully distracted from the true issue - the issue that Obamacare does not even attempt to address - the cost of medical care. Obamacare does nothing to reduce the cost of medical care, it only redistributes income to pay for medical insurance which in turn pays these outrageous bills.

reply to post by backwherewestarted

I'm sorry, it's a long thread, and I am a working women.....how about you point out those things that I have missed??

Ya see, you are talking to someone who WAS denied the care that was needed to repair a broken ankle for over a week because of the lack of a few thousand dollars (like everyone has a few thousand saved up), and it took a state representive to convince the doctor to do the surgery without the down payment. I wasn't earning anything at the time...my husband was, he just thought it was more appropriate to have shelter and food for the kids, than to pay the amount he would have had to pay to insure me, not to mention lay down that kind of money for a surgeon. I still have trouble walking, I won't walk to work!!! me walking far at all for anything is a priviledge that this society has lost, sorry, I'll starve first, or be walking my way out of your society! and well, we didn't qualify for any aid...
so, well, if I see someone sitting there saying oh, there's plenty of programs out there to help all those who need it, I will most definately say hogwash!!

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

I'm sorry, it's a long thread, and I am a working women.....how about you point out those things that I have missed??

Ya see, you are talking to someone who WAS denied the care that was needed to repair a broken ankle for over a week because of the lack of a few thousand dollars (like everyone has a few thousand saved up), and it took a state representive to convince the doctor to do the surgery without the down payment. I wasn't earning anything at the time...my husband was, he just thought it was more appropriate to have shelter and food for the kids, than to pay the amount he would have had to pay to insure me, not to mention lay down that kind of money for a surgeon. I still have trouble walking, I won't walk to work!!! me walking far at all for anything is a priviledge that this society has lost, sorry, I'll starve first, or be walking my way out of your society! and well, we didn't qualify for any aid...
so, well, if I see someone sitting there saying oh, there's plenty of programs out there to help all those who need it, I will most definately say hogwash!!

1) You are too busy to read a whole thread but feel ok to shoot your mouth off about the contents of it.

2) There are plenty of doctors/hospitals that do not require a down payment to have necessary surgery. Was it an issue with your decision making or an issue with who/where you are willing to go to take care of yourself?

3) Most people would do anything to be able to take care of themselves and their families...including dealing with pain, but not you, you would rather starve then walk in pain to work. What does that say about you? Nothing good.

4) If someone is making only $50 a month then there are plenty of programs that can help him, he can also get a job, but refuses to.

5) The only hogwash here is your nonsense and the OP's.

reply to post by backwherewestarted

gee, I called around, couldn't find anyone, when I talked to the legistlature, I was trying to work with Syracuse University Hospital, which is over 50 miles away from where I live!!

and...I work in pain now, even been known to crap blood, sometimes, if the work is hard enough, alot of blood....had that operation over the holidays. But, no, I will not walk that far.....people can live with that. I will do my family no good if I end up lying in a bed again unable to walk!

The idea that everybody can get the care they need in the current system is hogwash!! the social programs do not cover everyone, in every circumstance!

And well, the guy is right...
the costs of the care is outrageous, even with insurance!

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

gee, I called around, couldn't find anyone, when I talked to the legistlature, I was trying to work with Syracuse University Hospital, which is over 50 miles away from where I live!!

and...I work in pain now, even been known to crap blood, sometimes, if the work is hard enough, alot of blood....had that operation over the holidays. But, no, I will not walk that far.....people can live with that. I will do my family no good if I end up lying in a bed again unable to walk!

The idea that everybody can get the care they need in the current system is hogwash!! the social programs do not cover everyone, in every circumstance!

And well, the guy is right...
the costs of the care is outrageous, even with insurance!

1) I call BS that not one hospital or doctor in New York state would not do an operation without a down payment.

2) Crapping blood has zero to do with a broken ankle. If that is really happening then you have other issues.

3) Now you say you won't walk far when you previously said you would not walk to work. Changing story, eh.

4) It's interesting how you focus on social programs (that would cover someone who allegedly only makes $50 a month) nd ignore his refusal to work in order to care for himself and his family.

5) Once again, I never said anything about the cost of health care.

Keep digging that hole deeper.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

gee, I called around, couldn't find anyone, when I talked to the legistlature, I was trying to work with Syracuse University Hospital, which is over 50 miles away from where I live!!

and...I work in pain now, even been known to crap blood, sometimes, if the work is hard enough, alot of blood....had that operation over the holidays. But, no, I will not walk that far.....people can live with that. I will do my family no good if I end up lying in a bed again unable to walk!

The idea that everybody can get the care they need in the current system is hogwash!! the social programs do not cover everyone, in every circumstance!

And well, the guy is right...
the costs of the care is outrageous, even with insurance!

You have my sympathies Dawnstar... I simply cannot understand people who question the details of your experience! They must be complete idiots...
Vicky

reply to post by Vicky32

Actually, I'm not looking for sypathies, I just kind of with the people in my country would wake up to what has been going on here! They've been scammed into close to proverty, and they still supporting the scam??

I called enough people to draw the attention of a state legislature (I didn't call the legislature, someone me or my husband, or maybe a friend had talked to called him! And, I didn't try hard enough??

we'll leave it at that....

hernias can cause bleeding sometimes, by the way, which is what I just had the operation for...
had the hernia for over two years, been putting up with it, even putting up with the bleeding, while all the others in my family have been laid off several timesin that timeframe, well, I've been working when there was work, money's been tight, so didn't want to blow the budget to hades....
thought it was a good time to do it, we shutdown for christmas, so I only lost a couple days work really.
then hubby comes out three days later and tells me...oh, I 'm getting laid off!!
oh well, a new problem had popped up that I could see as being related to that, so I went and had it done.
I'll be like this guy, what the insurance doesn't pay, I will be paying a little every month, till it is paid, only I get to have interest added to mine!! the hospital won't carry the accounts, they'll just turn them over to a collection agency. It will go on a low interest credit card...the newest invention to help keep the healthcare racket alive!

here's a hint to all you overseas, when the wall street gang comes a peddling that debt in a form of cdo's ....
please, don't buy it!!!

This guy is probably in the healthcare field, and heaven forbid someone says anything that he sees as threatening his income!!

reply to post by backwherewestarted

one and two are taken care of in previous post...

work is far, so, well, don't see the difference in what I said...I did walk it once, and then I limbed through 8 hours of work.....if I did it often enough, I wouldn't be walking anymore, then I wouldn't be able todo the little walking that is necessary to work...

and well, I spent close to a year not able to work, unemployed uninsured, watching those feet deteriorate to the point where that one ankle broke!! Lesson learned!!

why he isn't working, well, it might be stated in the many, many pages of this thread, but I have missed it, you haven't provided it....so I can only run with my experience and knowledge and give him a benefit of a doubt....

obviously, you operate in the opposite manner, and unless there's one hundred 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt proof that what is being said is true, you aren't gonna be able to accept it!
I gave you a few ways where someone could only bringing in $50 a month and not be eligiable...if someone else is living in that household is making money, well, they aren't gonna be eligible if that income goes above the guideline...and if you have no kids to support, that guideline is rather low!!!