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I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

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posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Very quick question: if the taxes you pay goes towards trillion-dollar defence budgets, upkeep of highways, education, huge black budgets, the NSA, CIA etc. why wouldn't you object to funding an equal health care system the same way?




posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by plube
man alive that is simply small town big city issues.....how old are you....38 and you don't know this....OMG....


Riiight... how convinient. BTW, do yo not know that there are also medium and large cities in states where people are more generous?...


Originally posted by plube
You have made me do something i thought i would never do and that is to ask a mod to come in and monitor this thread...as it is completely off topic and derailing into a hate thread....


Right... answering what others ask is off topic, or just because you didn't like the answer...


Originally posted by plube
now i have i have all over the world....big towns small towns and cities......everywhere is different...but you can make some generalisations between small town and city....heck did you ever watch country mouse city mouse.


I have been in a lot of places, even lived in Europe for almost 10 years, and I learned from experience that leftist countries and nations tend to have more violence, even when law abiding citizens are bannned from owning weapons. In leftist countries people are taught that there is no such thing as "personal responsibility" instead they are taught that their problems occur because "of society", or they murdered, or raped because "their parents" or because they were raped as young adults... ALL responsibility is taken from the individual, and the individual is told that because "society, or their parents" were the problem, society will pay for their medication, and for their treatment... Instead of being put in prison, or even exucuted for henious crimes, they are sent to mental hospitals and then released back into society, where they commit even more crimes, again because "society, or their parents are the problem"...



Originally posted by plube
I mean please get back on topic and focus on the health care issue...and please answer..one...yes the one simple question....how does health care automatically send a country down the road to socialism or communism.

I mean you pay taxes in American...you have public schools....please focus.


I already answered that question... the left doesn't stop just on "healthcare", they take over private companies, put in centralized banks which gives the economy to rich banksters which the left itself put in power, and slowly but surely more, and more socialist programs are implemented...



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 



...the left doesn't stop just on "healthcare", they take over private companies, put in centralized banks which gives the economy to rich banksters which the left itself put in power, and slowly but surely more, and more socialist programs are implemented...


imho - the "Left" is a fiction created by the banksters to shut people up by piecing them off with a few left-over crumbs. The banksters put themselves in power - long ago - and they've never given up their control. The Left-Right polarity keeps us distracted while they continue business as usual. "Welfare" programs are a very small piece of the global pie - and still, is just another front designed to funnel more money to the banksters. But hey, it works - people are fooled and actually think they're getting something valuable out of a really bad deal.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by LarryLove

Very quick question: if the taxes you pay goes towards trillion-dollar defence budgets, upkeep of highways, education, huge black budgets, the NSA, CIA etc. why wouldn't you object to funding an equal health care system the same way?


Because the government shouldn't control healthcare... Again, the government already controls and has power over the Veteran Hospitals in the country, which are our version of your socialized healthcare, and it hasn't worked for decades...


90% of veterans' hospital facility problems are routine 'wear and tear'

22. March 2007 13:55

Routine maintenance issues account for 90% of the 1,100 problems found in the nation's 1,400 Veterans Affairs' health clinics and hospitals, according to a report released Wednesday based on a review ordered by VA Secretary Jim Nicholson, the AP/Philadelphia Inquirer reports (Yen, AP/Philadelphia Inquirer, 3/22).
Nicholson ordered the review earlier this month after a Washington Post series in February examined poor conditions at Walter Reed Army Medical Center (Zoroya, USA Today, 3/22). The 94-page review found that 90% of problems at VA facilities are maintenance issues such as worn-out carpet, peeling paint and rodent sightings. About 10% of problems identified in the report were considered substantial. In eight cases, problems found at VA facilities were so serious they required immediate attention, according to the report (AP/Philadelphia Inquirer, 3/22).
...

www.usatoday.com...



VA Hospital Problems to be Examined by Congressional Panel

Published: June 3rd, 2009 • Comments: 8

A congressional panel will look into the recent problems at VA Hospitals that occurred in at least three states, where thousands of veterans were potentially exposed to HIV, Hepatitis C and other diseases caused by unsterilized equipment.
The U.S. House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs oversight and investigations subcommittee scheduled a hearing for June 16, 2009, to inquire about the issues that resulted in letters being sent to10,555 former VA hospital patients recommending that they obtain blood tests because they were treated with equipment that was not properly cleaned between patients.
...

www.aboutlawsuits.com...



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


well bout time...and no...staying on topic is being able to bring people back on topic through your answers...not to go into tirades about others things that have no relevance.
thank your you point...and it is nice you have lived in these DEMOCRATIC countries...i know right now here in England the govenrment if far from leftist.
there have been many times in Englands history where the government swings both ways...just as the labour goverent recently was VOTED out.....
now has that stopped healthcare...no it hasn't.
Now in Canada also right now it is a Right Wing government...and has it stop Heathcare no....has it stopped the right to VOTE.....no it hasn't
So i would say your argument that because there is healthcare that means the right wing cannot exist.
Now when you were in any of those...nasty European countries as you like to think of them did you ever utilise any of their healthcare systems?.
Or would that have been to disgusting for you.
you also say that you were near the border of Canada...well i was born and raised in Canada and it has allowed me the freedom to travel the world in relative peace without to many incidences....i was in Texas when my appendix gave out on me...I drove...27hrs to toronto Ontario to get to the hospital there cause i KNEW that as a foriegner in the states it would have cost me my arm and my leg to have it there...i went to a hospital in brantford a 6am in the morning...by 4pm i was waking up from anestesia alive well and no charges.....
So please inform how that is a bad thing...tell me how it is wrong.
For some reason you think i am blinded....but i happen to fight the NWO i have websites dedicated to it....but that does not mean that there cannot be universal healthcare.
you see how it can work...I answer your questions but still remain focussed on the OP.
Quite simple really.....Answering questions in not about bashing out a tirade...it is about being concisive and to the point.

edit on 083131p://f14Friday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
imho - the "Left" is a fiction created by the banksters to shut people up by piecing them off with a few left-over crumbs. The banksters put themselves in power - long ago - and they've never given up their control. The Left-Right polarity keeps us distracted while they continue business as usual. "Welfare" programs are a very small piece of the global pie - and still, is just another front designed to funnel more money to the banksters. But hey, it works - people are fooled and actually think they're getting something valuable out of a really bad deal.


imho the "there is no left or right" is the fiction created by those who want to confuse people into thinking it is ok to want socialism/leftist programs in the U.S.

I am not saying you, or any others are "in with the banksters", but people have become willing participants because they do not want to accept that leftist ideals (socialism) do not belong in nations like the Republic of the U.S.

Sofi, i respect you, but it seems that too many people are not willing to accept the fact that they have been indoctrinated and brainwashed so much to accept socialism/socialist ideals that such people would rather believe there is no such thing as left or right.

There is a division whether you want to accept it or not, and that division has existed since before the banksters took control.

Take a look at the policies and programs of elitist organizations and you will find EVERY PROGRAM THEY HAVE, have implemented and want to implement is socialist.

Sorry Sofi, but no one can escape that fact.

The question is in what side will people choose to be?
edit on 31-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by LarryLove

Very quick question: if the taxes you pay goes towards trillion-dollar defence budgets, upkeep of highways, education, huge black budgets, the NSA, CIA etc. why wouldn't you object to funding an equal health care system the same way?

Because the government shouldn't control healthcare...

There lies the key to the argument...put a great big red circle around it. Americans are a rather peculiar lot...big on freedoms but puritanical in nature. Willing to lose their minds over pledging allegiance to the flag...but not about pledging allegiance to one another. It's all part of the national psyche. Sort of like that big awkward cousin that always seems to make a mess of family gatherings.

However...one on one they are a friendly, generous people. I always enjoy my visits...and it was 3 times this year, but I am always happy to come home, too. The USA was conceived in issues of rights, so they have a finely honed sense (right or wrong) of what is appropriate under their founding principals and what is not.

Health care seems to be on the 'not' side. ..and that is an entirely different argument. Sparky, here, is likely a pretty decent human being and we'd likely have a good time over a couple of wobble-pops. But there are certain things we can't agree on because we are talking two different things disguised as a single issue.

No sense making one's self nuts. I generally only pipe up to contradict lies about our system.

Peace all, and Happy New Year.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


No one in this thread is advocating Socialism as the way forward, merely people are looking at the pros and cons to nationalised and insurance-based medical systems. Please stop trying to turn the thread into a political bull pit about ideologies and focus on the OP in hand.

My medical system is nationalised (not free or Socialist) and I pay for it through taxation. I have the option of taking out private medical care, but am content with the NHS. However, there are problems with the UK's system just as there are with the American one. Are you truly happy with the system you have and if not, what changes would you make?

Again, this is not about whether Socialism is taking over the world.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by plube
...
So i would say your argument that because there is healthcare that means the right wing cannot exist.
Now when you were in any of those...nasty European countries as you like to think of them did you ever utilise any of their healthcare systems?.
Or would that have been to disgusting for you.
...


Leftist policies are implemented slowly over decades to indoctrinate people into slowly accepting such policies. This has happened many times in the past.

Don't you understand that with the government having control over healthcare they can force you to take vaccines, and force you to do what they want?...

Already in the U.S. Obama wants people to buy the healthcare programs HE, and his thugs want people to have, if you don't do so, you will be fined...

Again centralization of power is a measure in which all free choice is slowly taken from the individual as aslowly the government controls every aspect of our lives.

BTW, I was a legal resident in Spain, but because I was not a citizen I could not partake in the "free healthcare" instead my parents had to pay.

Have you ever seen what the so called "free healthcare" slowly erodes into? I have, in Cuba, despite the fact that the left has lied through their teeth about Cuba, it's healthcare, and public school system I actually know what it is really like, and like me millions of others also remember. But those of us who have seen, and experienced the end result of socialism are often labeled by the left as "U.S. paid propagandists" ironically by people who have never even set foot in Cuba as a Cuban citizen, or experienced what life is really like under a system where THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS EVERYTHING...



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I think you are right that many Americans view taxation & government much differently.
Some Americans, not all mind you, have a sense of fierce individualism. These see government as an obstacle in their path to freedom, success & happiness. They recognize that it is a necessary evil but instinctively resist efforts to allow government more control over their lives.
You said that you pay taxes and worry about it being used correctly,... Americans pay taxes and are certain their taxes are NOT being used correctly. Therefore they resist most efforts to force them to pay more.

It is also true that Americans are fiercely divided on this issue. I have friends on both sides of the issue but one thing is true....none of them trust the government to do the right thing.

edit on 12/31/2010 by Sparky63 because: spelling



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
But those of us who have seen, and experienced the end result of socialism are often labeled by the left as "U.S. paid propagandists" ironically by people who have never even set foot in Cuba as a Cuban citizen, or experienced what life is really like under a system where THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS EVERYTHING...


Well now...part of that issue is that Americans are forbidden by their freedom loving government from visiting Cuba and are therefore denied a perspective. And those of us who have been their of late are simply considered wrong by the hard core such as yourself.

Doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion, does it?

I have been to Cuba...before and after the fall of the SU. I also know what refugees from East Bloc countries sound like cuz I have them in the family. Compare Cuba with the Dominican Republic...and tell us who is living better.
edit on 31-12-2010 by JohnnyCanuck because: to chill



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You know something Electric...no one has the ability to indoctrinate me into any of their political...or religious beliefs....Do know you why?

It is because i have free will....I have the abiity think for myself...Now that is freedom

Freedom is not written on a piece of paper...it is not instituted by a document...it is not something that has to be assigned by an outside body.
Freewill was mine at birth...but having that freewill does not mean i will always be healthy...and if there are systems that can benifit people in a positive way...and using my freewill...i am able to decipher wether it is a good thing or a bad thing...that is not a bad thing.
People can become country focussed...let not one ask what their country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country....(rubbish)
ask instead what one can do for their fellow man...their friends their neighbors.....Your country is not there for you.....the country serves it's own self interest and political agaendas.
now thinking with freewill...i know fro personal experiences that having a healthcare system helps people...ALL people whether it is in a Capitalist,socialist,communist....or get this...a humanist country.
Being blinded by political and religious dogma does absolutely nothing to further advance the human race.
Now step out of the Banner of the Flag...and look at the bigger picture sometimes...it can be a wonderful place.

edit on 083131p://f41Friday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
There lies the key to the argument...put a great big red circle around it. Americans are a rather peculiar lot...big on freedoms but puritanical in nature. Willing to lose their minds over pledging allegiance to the flag...but not about pledging allegiance to one another. It's all part of the national psyche. Sort of like that big awkward cousin that always seems to make a mess of family gatherings.


What in the world makes you think that the government having control over healthcare means "everything is fine and dandy, and everyone lives in peace and harmony henceforth"?

I am amazed by the psyche of the left, you all seem to think that government control over everything = happiness for everyone, and no cares in the world"... Well, perhaps it is true if you want the government to make all decisions for you and you are happy by being a mindless robot that needs the government for everything and can't think without the government...

Americans in general have alledgiance for one another, even Republicans and conservatives, what we don't accept is this concept that "the government must control everything to have a happy life", or "to care for everyone you must allow the government to control everything."

These, among others are concepts which the left around the world have yet every one of you chooses to ignore history which shows that if the government has control over everything that government becomes dictatorial.

This happens in every issue.




Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Peace all, and Happy New Year.


Peace to you too and Happy New Year.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Well now...part of that issue is that Americans are forbidden by their freedom loving government from visiting Cuba and are therefore denied a perspective. And those of us who have been their of late are simply considered wrong by the hard core such as yourself.

Doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion, does it?


First of all we can visit Cuba. I couldn't go when I was in the military but afterwards I could go, not to mention that i also was born and experienced the socialist indoctrination that foreigners like you are unawares of...

I have family in Cuba, and i know first hand what happens there. I was there in 2000-2001, and lived again with my family, and not in a tourist hotel room with indoor plumbing, and with room service at your every whim.

Sorry but you can't tell me you know what it is like in Cuba because you don't.

Tourists are assigned to areas which are kept constantly clean, and in good conditions but if you try to get out of those areas you are first of all warned to stay out of areas where the regular Cuban people live, and if you go you are monitored.

I am sure you didn't even see the mountains of trash in every corner of the inner city, and these are as high as a one store building in some areas.

You have no idea what really would happen to you if you tried to find out what really goes on in Cuba.

This is what happens if you try to find out the truth about Cuba, and btw, why do you think that no Human Right group from ANYWHERE, except Venezuela, is allowed in Cuba?...



The arrest of two Czech women puts further strain on Czech-Cuban relations
02-02-2006 13:40 | Daniela Lazarová

Relations between the Czech Republic and Cuba have been strained for some time, after a number of diplomatic spats. Tensions between the two states have risen further since the arrest last week of two Czech women - including former Miss Czech Republic Helena Houdova - while they were taking photographs of a slum area.

The two Czech women were detained by police as they were taking photographs of a poverty ridden district in Havana. "There was a lot of shouting as we were dragged off - and one of the officers shouted that we were terrorists", Helena Houdova said later. She and her psychologist friend Mariana Kroftova made the trip to Havana to ascertain how children on the island could benefit from their charity work. Mariana Kroftova says she thought the eleven hours they spent in detention would never end:

"They took us to a police station where nobody spoke to us or properly explained what was going on. We were just able to make out that we were accused of engaging in counter-revolutionary activities against the Cuban regime. What was worse they refused to let us call the Czech embassy. So we spent the 11 hours without knowing what our fate would be."

The two women were eventually released at 3am after pledging in writing that they would not engage in any counter-revolutionary activities in Cuba. Both remained under house arrest until leaving the country. The Czech Foreign Ministry has described their treatment as a flagrant violation of international law. Richard Krpac is from the ministry's press department:
...

www.radio.cz...

You are actually insulting people's intelligence when you try to claim that you, a Canadian tourist who lived at a multimillion dollar motel know better than Cubans what happens there...




Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I have been to Cuba...before and after the fall of the SU. I also know what refugees from East Bloc countries sound like cuz I have them in the family. Compare Cuba with the Dominican Republic...and tell us who is living better.


The people in Dominican Republic are living better...



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:08 AM
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Hey, great news for the socialised healthcare in Europe...


Europe to ban hundreds of herbal remedies

Safety concerns sparked drive to outlaw products

By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor


Thursday, 30 December 2010


Hundreds of herbal medicinal products will be banned from sale in Britain next year under what campaigners say is a "discriminatory and disproportionate" European law.


With four months to go before the EU-wide ban is implemented, thousands of patients face the loss of herbal remedies that have been used in the UK for decades.

From 1 May 2011, traditional herbal medicinal products must be licensed or prescribed by a registered herbal practitioner to comply with an EU directive passed in 2004. The directive was introduced in response to rising concern over adverse effects caused by herbal medicines.

www.independent.co.uk...

Yay for "universal healthcare"... I guess that doesn't mean that the "Big Pharma" companies in Europe are winning some BIG businesses?... Right?...


edit on 31-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Do you even read things before posting? This has got nothing to do with nationalised health care in the context you paint it in. It has more to do with the influence of the EU encroaching on the UK. Totally different issues.

I can only assume you are trolling these boards looking to pick fights with anyone that doesn't agree with you.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 




Because the government shouldn't control healthcare... Again, the government already controls and has power over the Veteran Hospitals in the country, which are our version of your socialized healthcare, and it hasn't worked for decades...


I have never encountered any such conditions in our public hospitals, so the problem you are talking about (if its not exaggerated) can be solved.
Either way, the topic is about national health INSURANCE system, alternative to private companies, not state owned hospitals, they are being phased out or reformed at least to combined private + state shareholder companies even here in Slovakia, and I have nothing against it if it increases efficiency and there is public insurance option enabling poor to use these private hospitals.

You can have national healthcare insurance system payed from taxes, and not a single state owned hospital, and many alternative private insurance companies providing additional insurance offering higher-standard healthcare. Noone would be without basic insurance, and private companies would have to lower prices and offer better services, since if they cartelized and increased prices, there comes a point when it would be more advantageous for people to use only public insurance (and they would have the option).

Speaking of the Veteran Hospitals, even if they are in bad shape, isnt it still beter than none at all? I think every rational uninsured person would still choose even bad quality hospital over no (or only emergency) care at all, or absurdly huge debts.
edit on 31/12/10 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by LarryLove
...
Totally different issues.

I can only assume you are trolling these boards looking to pick fights with anyone that doesn't agree with you.


To you because you don't see it, and i doubt you want to see the connection...

This is what happens when government controls everything, including healthcare...

As for me liking to pick fights? no, I like showing the truth, and not the rosy, fantasy some want to believe in... If anyone is trolling it is you...
edit on 31-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
First of all we can visit Cuba.


Perhaps as an emigre?...then I was in error and apologise.

Can the general populace of the US? Or is this one of those..."Yes we can go, but we can't spend any money" kinda things?


The people in Dominican Republic are living better...

I don't expect the vast underclass in the DR is living better than those in Cuba...in terms of education and health care. They are comparable nations, right? Who sent all the medics to Haiti?



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 




There is a division whether you want to accept it or not, and that division has existed since before the banksters took control.


Look at history - the banksters have been in control a long, long time. True, there was a short period where the USA looked to have escaped their control, but that was short-lived.



Take a look at the policies and programs of elitist organizations and you will find EVERY PROGRAM THEY HAVE, have implemented and want to implement is socialist.

Sorry Sofi, but no one can escape that fact.


I agree - that's exactly why I said we're being pieced off. ...People know in their guts that it's not fair to have to work and work and all the fruits of all their labor go to the banksters while their children starve in the cold.



The question is in what side will people choose to be?


YOUR polarity is Right and Left.

The polarity I see is created by this Ponzi scheme we call an "economy" - I choose human persons over corporate persons.


PS. I respect you too.



edit on 31/12/10 by soficrow because: (no reason given)



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