I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

One more time - and the last time

Keep to the TOPIC or firmer actions will be handed out.

Use the COMPLAINT FORM if you have issues with other members and/or their posts. Do NOT complain on the thread.

reply to post by groingrinder


I feel ya~! I had to take my wife into the ER 2 months ago thinking she was having a heart attack, we were in there for 2 hours, Grand total bill=3,000$ to be paid in FULL, no discounts.. 3 months before that, had to take her in to the same ER for pain reliever, Toridal for her back..

in for 30 mins.. Grand total bill, to be paid in full mind you, ....700.00$

now.. you want to know a REALLY intresting thing.. she's been on Unemployment 'Insurance' for 2.5+ years now.. and we STILL can get on state medical .. I've been on UI since May of this year and STILL can't get on state medical .. and get this..

we make to much ~! LOL we've check the state website 3x~!!

now to you that ridiclue us that are honestly trying to better our situation, Please, put yourself in our shoes and be a little bit more empathic~!

3,000 is MAJOR on a income of 50.00/month. TELL ME THERE'S NOT A SCAM going on ~!!!!!!!!



the medical industry is NO different than the auto mechanic industry.. there are only 2 types..

those that look at your car, fix the problem and nothing else is done, then there are those that listen what your have to say, look into what is going on, fix that and ANYTHING ELSE that may or maynot be a issue later on..

it's all about PREVENTION.. NOT reactive ~~! Doctors ALWAYS say.. well.. come back if there's anything else we can do.. but .. is that still reactive ??? !!! What they SHOULD be saying is.. I won't expect you back here for 3 months .. but.. you are welcome to come back if you think you need to ..

just like a good machanic WOULD .. why .. if he's a good machanic, he'll be confindant in his profession~!

reply to post by Pervius

There is no other country on Earth offering 100% free healthcare to illegal aliens (as we do with the EMTALA ACT).

Every european country offers emergency medical care for free to anyone, without questioning status.

1/3rd of Mexico's workforce is in America getting 100% free healthcare. There's a total of 45 million foreigners who broke into America to get whatever they can for free...

So the problem is illegal immigration. Not free emergency healthcare.

The damaged DNA claims are just ridiculous. Industrial poisoning and hereditary diseases rate in the US is not higher than in the rest of the developed world. You certainly dont need immigrants for their fresh tasty DNA lol what are you Grey aliens

Originally posted by AeonStorm

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by groingrinder

 

I'm not sure what the point is. You had all of these procedures done,
knowing you only have $50.00 a month, you knew this going to the
Medical Center. Now what? Are you mad at society or the Hospital
in general because they didn't wipe out the entire debt? You stated
that they took off $8,000 and have $3,000 left to pay off. I would say
that is a pretty darn good arrangement. What are you complaining
about? Suck it up and get a part time job. Do something besides
complaining to ATS.

edit on 28-12-2010 by endtimer because: (no reason given)

This is probably the worst thing I can do as a brand new member (my first post) but I am going to infer as to what endtimer has posted. As I have been following this thread I will infer that endtimer is not neccesasirly about poor people getting the shaft but instead endtimer does believe in the current system minus the elitists who are the real drain. That being said I will also infer that s/he has worked very hard and has endured at least one intense situation and possibly a hard life s/he had to work hard for. What I will say now is that the system that s/he takes pride in is the same system that allowed the elitists to thrive and currently infest the system. Thus I can understand his judgement and at the same time refute that the system that he covenants is the one that must be drastically changed. You can go from rich to poor like that! As for the majority here I agree with most (if not all) of you and I wish the OP the best!

How many more times do I have to say it loud and clear? I don't take pride in the "system".
I don't "covenant" as you alluded to. I DON'T believe in the system. I have clearly said it
SUCKS. Big neon light here. FLASH FLASH FLASH. I will say again for those who are
not able to read and comprehend what is being said by me. I am not wishing the OP bad
things. Until the system you are talking about is actually CHANGED, nothing will happen.
Gripe and complain and whine all you want, it doesn't do any good for the moment to continue
on with this ridiculous bickering over something NONE of us citizens can do anything about.
Maybe all of the complaining will oneday do some good and create change, but nothing is
happening. So, in the interim, find a way to deal with this crap.

And yes, I have had a number of life threatening things going on in my lifetime. Some were paid
for by the insurance I had with generous employers. Other things I have not had paid. I am
presently trying to pay off an MRI that was done a couple of years ago. Those are unbelievably
expensive. I was out of work and didn't have squat for insurance. I worked it out with the
hospital to pay small payments each month until it is paid off. I didn't go on the welfare system
or ask anyone else to foot the bill or complain about it. I worked it out. I know how rotten the
jacka$$ system is. I am still paying for the MRI and will probably have it paid off in another
year. That's just how it is.

For those who demand free, free, free, will you please pay for this piece of crap computer
and the internet service so I can continue looking at a glass box with complete strangers
all over the world who think that socialism is all fuzzy and warm and happy? Socialism has
never worked in the entire history of this planet. NO WHERE ! So please keep it to yourself
about how wonderful it is.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
....
Western society is indeed based on principal of public welfare, because it's a crucial ingredient that enables capitalism to function without killing off citizens and/or causing unrest, upheaval and complete loss of civility. Somehow, here in the US, we are on the path just to that, despite us being less "socialist" than every single country in the wold.

Really? you call civility, and the epytome of a "civilized society" European nations, and other "more socialistic nations" which have had more violent revolts, riots, and in general are more violent than the U.S.?...

So you haven't heard, or read about these yearly riots in European nations?... Not too long ago from the UK nonetheless came up and article showing how European nations like the U.K., France and others were MORE violent than the U.S.

They have become so "civilized" in the UK that even after banning guns there crimes went up and even gun crimes went up, but hey that is "a civilized society"...

Oh hey, the UK must be an "extremely civilized society" they beat each other up over soccer games as well...

Again, European nations are NOT perfect, and in fact they have been having more violence there despite the claims that the U.S. is more violent, but you all want to act like "they are the #s for socialized healthcare" and "they are more civilized"...

Yeah, that's also what King George and his thugs used to tell American settlers, and everyone they trampled, how "civilized" they were and everyone else were just "barbarians and farmers"....

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


well another well off topic thread posted by you....this should be in your freedom of speech thread should it not....strange....what does this have to do with the topic of medicare....I guess if someone got shot by one of those said guns then it would be needed then that would be right back on topic...I can understand your anger since in another posting you said you were born in Cuba yet you seem to feel no one else understands Us history and we don't even understand individualism....makes absolutely no sense to me...and you still have not answered the single question put to you....how does universal health care lead to the ruin of democracy and lead down the road to socialism and communism....FOCUS NOW...please FOCUS...i dont know where you come up with the things your presenting...it boggles the mind.

reply to post by plube


Weren't you the one to ask in what manner does "socialised healthcare" brings societies closer to the U.S.S.R., and similar socialist dictatorships?... It always starts with a few things, including healthcare, then you take over some "private companies", then you take away the ability of the people to own and bear guns, then you take people's ability to protest, take over other private companies, and slowly but surely every right is taken away...

BTW, haven't you heard how the chief of police in London is mulling over the option of taking away the people's right to peaceful protest?...

Martial Law: UK Police Chief Mulls Banning Protests
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Wed, 12/15/2010 - 18:25
in Current Events
www.prisonplanet.com...

UK police chief Sir Paul Stephenson is considering whether to ask the British government to ban protest marches altogether in response to last week’s student riots, a move that would place Britain under a de facto state of martial law.

“It is one of the tactics we will look at and something we will keep under review, and if we think it is the right thing to do then we will do it,” said the Metropolitan Police commissioner.

NUS president Aaron Porter responded: “Peaceful protest is an integral part of our heritage and it is the responsibility of the police to help facilitate that.”
...

www.dailypaul.com...

But hey, just as long as the UK, and others "remain civilized"...

Who would want to protest at all?, do as your masters tell you, after all it is "for the good of all"....

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

Food, water, shelter, and clothing are all more important than medical care.

... and you can rest assured that all of those things are provided in one way or another in civilized societies to those who can't otherwise afford them. So, I don't get your point.

Those of us who have enough to spare willingly contribute to the funding of these things through taxes or donations -- in most civilized countries. Yes, I am intentionally making a distinction between "civilized" countries and the US.

There are times when your "every man for himself" attitudes get to be a bit much.

I think my attitude is one of extraordinary generosity. The more (neo)liberal a society is, the more selfish and secluded it tends to be according to studies of charitable giving comparing states like California to states like Kentucky. You go to California, and its more of an attitude of distrust and seclusion. Lock your doors. Close your wallets to beggars and punish them for not trusting the government to give them all their needs. If you go to Kentucky, its more of an attitude of caring for your fellow man. The doors are often unlocked. Open your wallet to beggars every now and then. Don't rely on government for everything to improve.

I don't believe a society of unlocked doors suggests a lower level of civilization... I suggest it implies a higher level of civilization. People in general tend to support reach out to each other with generosity, and when they don't, then having that local population suffer the natural consequences of selfishness is appropriate.

A society that takes people's property without permission is uncivilized. Therefore, Hong Kong and Singapore are the only societies approaching something that can be called a civilization. It is no coincidence they are managing their poverty, even in Hong Kong where it would seem impossible to even survive for a typical person given their extremely high population density and lack of resources. Theft by taxation is not necessary... in all cases it is totally unnecessary and in extreme cases like the USSR and now the USSA it is downright harmful to the poor.

The most pro-taxation pro-state-welfare place in the US is probably Detroit... an attitude they've had for a long time. Look what its done to their poor. We can expect the same thing that happened to Detroit in many welfare states in Europe and certainly in California over the next decade or two. So I don't consider those policies of Detroit to be either generous or helpful to the poor. I don't consider them to be civilized or compassionate. I consider libertarian tax-free policies to be the truly compassionate approach.

And again:
College prices go up faster than inflation. Government subsidies of college go up faster than inflation.
Medical care prices go up faster than inflation. Government subsidies of medical care go up faster than inflation.

Coincidence? No. Subsidies and regulation cause the price of both to rise. In the lightest regulated industries prices go down. In the heaviest regulated, prices go up. Its simply economics at work. So I can't be enthusiastic about state welfare programs.

In the legal world, we have lawsuits. Most lawsuits are basically if you are wrongfully financially damaged you have the right to be compensated. As it turns out this is all the regulation you need in virtually all industries without a single piece of legislation specific to the industry to ensure a fully optimal economy and fully just legal system. Anything other than that and you almost always get more injustice and less overall happiness as a result.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Well said (sort of). The right wing elite continues to sell the individualistic tripe to public who then proceeds to bend over in order to be had by same elite.

Nice try... but you fail... Perhaps you forget that the forefathers of the nation you call home were "highly individualistic"... and the Constitution and Bill of Rights they wrote

Ahh, that's exactly the right wing tripe I was referring about! Every time there is healthcare debate on ATS, it usually takes but a few pages to arrive to the mention of "forefathers" and "constitution". I can imagine talking to a religious fundamentalist on any topic (like space exploration) and hearing that "God will provide". Same difference. Basically, you have no answer and thump the book. Shame.

and which to this day is part of the "Law of the Land" also were written to defend "individualism"... But of course, the left these days don't even know what individualism is really all about... and I'll give you a hint... it has NOTHING to do with corpocratism.... But you have become so ignorant, and there are many like you, that you actually don't know what individualism really is all about...

If you tried to educate me and others in your posts, on the topic of individualism as you see it, you painted a really grotesque and unappealing picture. Please be as individualistic as you want, fine by any measure, but letting people's lives to be ruined (and/or ended in a preventable situation) by a catastrophic event is either primitive or unethical or sadistic or some combination thereof.

So bend over for the right.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by buddhasystem
....
Western society is indeed based on principal of public welfare, because it's a crucial ingredient that enables capitalism to function without killing off citizens and/or causing unrest, upheaval and complete loss of civility. Somehow, here in the US, we are on the path just to that, despite us being less "socialist" than every single country in the wold.

Really? you call civility, and the epytome of a "civilized society" European nations, and other "more socialistic nations" which have had more violent revolts, riots, and in general are more violent than the U.S.?...

I visited a number of European nations over the years (and continue to do so on regular basis) and I can't stop laughing at your pronouncement. Denmark and Switzerland more violent than the U.S.? Think hard. Think harder. Think again.

Riots in France? Yes, large Muslim population in slums. Try that in your neighborhood. Student protests in the UK? Well, the students are at least protesting. Here, they play beer pong.

Oh hey, the UK must be an "extremely civilized society" they beat each other up over soccer games as well...

Yeah well they do a whole lot better than us when it comes to school shooting incidents. Did they have Columbine, Virginia Tech and other such incidents? I'm OK with a bloodied nose over a soccer game, compared to the slaughter we've got accustomed to, in the US.

Havn't had time to read all the posts but if this has been asked before, sorry...

If you live in Apache Junction, which i see is a good sized town of about 35,000 people,why do you have to walk 13 miles to the nearest bus station?

Do you live in one of the 51 RV parks there are near there?

One of the nine that presumibly has internet conection, that i supposed isnt free. So how do you pay it on 50 bucks a month?

What illness do you have exactly?

Originally posted by ExCloud
I make $12 an hour have a child an house payment and ...

Well maybe that's the problem, how little some folks have decided to earn, and not how much stuff costs. Maybe we should be jumping all over the poor people for being so poor and unmotivated and irresponsible for taking care of themselves and not be jumping on the wealthy that ARE living their lives right and responsibly. The problem isn't with wealthy people that won't pay the poor peoples personal living expenses, it's all these dang poor people that refuse to become rich and wealthy. The wealthy ARE doing thing right, and apparently the rest aren't. Poor people, you need to stop being poor, because poor people are the problem.

Why don't folks make more money? That's what I usually do when I need more money for stuff, I better myself, educate myself, study a lot, and I'm always looking for a better opportunity. Wouldn't it be a lot easier for folks to take their own situation into their own hands and solve their own fiscal issues instead of always trying to be like a monkey on everyone else's back? Wouldn't be easier to just go get a better job or hire yourself (self employment) than try to convince others that they should pay for unmotivated peoples living expenses?

Also, what are you doing with a computer and internet access when you owe someone else money, especially those that may have saved your life? Sell your stuff to pay that bill. I had to sell my home three years ago to pay an $80,000 hospital bill. Boohoo me huh? NOT! It is MY expense and MY responsibility to pay my keep on planet Earth and nobody else's!!!

And isn't $12 an hour a high school kids wage? Do you find that acceptable? Or are you out there hustling for a better job, educating yourself, improving your skills, value, and worth, everyday? Seriously, I see people complaining every day about their life situation but so few, so very very few, are doing a damn thing to fix their own issues for themselves, they just sit around and bitch and blame the rest of the world and expect others to fix things for them (I.e. "Woe is me, a job should be a right, someone create a high paying job for me NOW, someone be my doctor for free too!". ... Sure ha, right away ... NOT! ).

Hey, complainers in the world out their, YOU create a cool high paying job for me AND provide me with free slave doctors, ha. Seriously though, I think the world is filled with too many children disguised as adults that apparently never grew up and/or had been taught properly how to be a responsible adult and to take care of their own lives. Such a sad situation, what a sorry hopeless species humans have become. What went wrong?

Originally posted by Nutella

Originally posted by mishigas
I see people here pushing the "free" health care they have in their country.

Nothing is "free"


America, if you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it is "free".

I agree. However, if you're out of a job with no money and your wife is dying, you'd jump on it...
Be REAL.

I'll be real. Of course I'd accept it in that case. That doesn't mean we should model the entire system around cases like that, which are the exception and not the rule.

Of course you won't. You have an agenda.

Truth is my agenda, not creating dreams of a socialistic paradise that exists only in fairy tale books.

Do you see how the government works?

? WTF does that mean?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BTW, in case you didn't know centralisation is part of the socialist model, it has no place in a capitalistic nation...

Not true.

First understand that capitalism is the 'private ownership of the means of production'. Not money, not markets.
They can exists without capitalism.

Capitalism centralizes wealth, because it's an economic system ran by a small minority who monopolize the worlds wealth by exploiting the majority to work at their corporations. Capitalism requires a centralized authority, the state, in order to maintain it's control. Without a centralized state system there would no infrastructure for production, roads, railways, etc. It also manages the contradiction between its monopoly and competition.
It serves to protect the capitalist mode of production through violence and incorporation.

The health care system has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. It's social health care, not socialist health care. 'Social' simply means it pertains to the welfare of people in a community. Social health care does not make you socialist.

Europe is NOT socialist. It is capitalist, just a little more liberal than the US. People don't pay $800 from their taxes for a damn half mile ambulance ride.

reply to post by Maslo

Every european country offers emergency medical care for free to anyone, without questioning status.

(It is not an excuse for our broken system because it is broken)
Maslo,
I'm curios which European country has the highest illegal immigration population and the cost annually these illegals have on the medical industry/citizens of the country with the highest illegal population? I would like to know where you got the stats your statement was based on? Or was it a generalization of Europe as a whole and not specific to one country?

So the problem is illegal immigration. Not free emergency healthcare.

Yes it's a huge problem in the US, please do the research before you post.

www.examiner.com...

A snippet of above article:

These investigations are only some of the most recent, and represent just the tip of the iceberg. According to the Houston Chronicle, investigators in Houston say one of the major reasons Medicaid fraud is on the rise there is a steady increase in the number of illegal immigrants who consider scamming the government for benefits an acceptable practice.

“There’s a real problem of health care fraud in recent immigrant communities — we see it everyday,” one official said on condition of anonymity. “One of the reasons is you’re looking at people who don’t come up through the educational system, they’re impoverished, they think this country is very rich, and they don’t view taking advantage of a government program as a crime.”

Originally posted by NWOnoworldorder
reply to post by groingrinder

 

might i suggest immigrating to the uk?...wether you work or not u will get FREE HEALTHCARE....if i was to have all that treatment it would have cost me....nothing....free!!

Ah correction, nothing in life is free. Your healthcare money that you claim is free comes from your high taxes.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

^Read the link above

This will lead to the never-ending healthcare debate on if healthcare should be free and a right or many other different opinions but here's an idea. Should a healthy 21 year old male with no diseases, allergies, or major medical history have to pay high taxes to support "free healthcare" when they rarely use it; just playin devils advocate here....