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I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Great reply post. There is a fine line between communism and socialism. People just don't get it. Anyway, are you from Cali? You look like an old buddy of mine from high school. I tried to U2U but I'm new an the system won't allow me those priveleges til i have 20 posts.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Oh, I believe you, just look at the bill in the OP.

If you think it's OK to charge 11 grand for a handful of fairly generic, run of the mill tests, you are beyond help.


The OP has grossly misrepresented the bill, it was immediately cut to $3,000 and he has applied for AHCCCS (Arizona Medicaid) which if he had done in advance (when he fell on hard times) his bill would have been zero,

The truth about this "situation" which has been largely ignored... Deny ignorance indeed...

The amount of bloviating over this lie unfortunate omission resulting in a gross misunderstanding is mind numbing.



WRONG.

Zero? Nada? Zilch?...Well my wife is uninsured due to denials..and I attempted to recieve aid via Illinois Healthcare program...2 months after my application and no response I called them...and called them and called them...and finally after a few weeks reached a human being.

The only employee/case worker for all of Chicago Land...No BS. She explained that while the program existed, it had been "defunded" and was essentially just a shell. Nice website though.

Reading your bit here about how all he has to do is apply to AHCCCS in AZ...well I thought it worth a quick search to see if there weren't similiar issues...

Your contention that all the OP needs to do is apply to AHCCCS seems like Utter BS an unfortunate omission resulting in a gross misunderstanding of the state of AHCCCS.




PHOENIX -- While an anonymous donor has agreed to cover the cost of a Phoenix father's bone marrow transplant, problems remain for other patients who have lost their coverage because of budget cuts in the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System.

Tiffany Tate is one of them.

The 28-year-old was born with cystic fibrosis and needs a double lung transplant.

www.620ktar.com...


Brewer wants GOP to allow AHCCCS cuts
www.yumasun.com...

Gov defends AHCCCS cuts as `tough decision'
ktar.com...


PHOENIX -- Gov. Jan Brewer has defended cuts in medical care to a million Arizonans, which take effect Friday, as necessary decisions because of the state's budget crisis.

Brewer's comment Thursday came as a leukemia patient urged Arizonans to email Brewer and asked her to reverse the decision that he said will cause him to die.


Arizona's hospitals decry cuts to AHCCCS



Arizona's largest hospitals are warning that recent cuts to AHCCCS will reduce the availability of medical services throughout the state and exacerbate a shortage of physicians.

The result is a $7.8 million cut in aid to hospitals that serve large numbers of uninsured patients


www.azcentral.com...


Cuts to AHCCCS unethical | ahcccs, transplants, cuts - Opinion
www.yumasun.com/articles/transplants-66154-ahcccs-cuts.html

See Who Voted Yay, Nay On AHCCCS Cuts - Phoenix News Story - KPHO ...Nov 17, 2010 ...
PHOENIX -- A Valley man was denied a life-saving liver transplant because the state's Medicaid plan didn't cover it.
www.kpho.com/news/25832086/detail.html


Et cetera....et cetera...et cetera...try googling AHCCCS and Budget...nice website though!



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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I've always leaned to the conservative side but I am resigned to the fact that healthcare in the USA should be socialized or at least some sort of hybrid system. There's just too many unfair pitfalls in the current system. Too many money grubbing crooks making bank at the consumers expense. I applaud President Obama for trying to tackle this issue.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Look how confused people like you actually are that you claim socialism and communism are different... The only difference between socialism and communism is the same as the differences from a white cat and a brown cat... they are both cats...


Sorry you feel such pain. Why the need to tell people that their very own perception of their very own experience is incorrect?

The worst aspects of the Universal Health Care systems are inferior to the best of the US. Granted.

UHC serves the vast majority of the populace a whole lot better than the US system serves its people.

These nations use their systems to take care of their own...this is not an American priority.

Sorry Sparky...cats and dogs.
edit on 30-12-2010 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11

*SNIP*



Enter the strawman... The topic is groingrinder and his $11,000 bill ummm... $3,000 bill ahhh... Free visit to the ER. As long as he has been truthful regarding his financial situation, he will be approved for AHCCCS. If his ER visit was deemed an emergent visit, and I believe it would be because of the diagnostic tests that were performed, he will have no financial responsibility... Zero, zilch, nada, none, sans mettre à l'affiche...

And on the off chance his visit is deemed not to have been a medical emergency his responsibility will be $30.00.

That princely sum will leave him with $20.00 for the month if he is inclined to fulfill that in the unlikely event it is required.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Look how confused people like you actually are that you claim socialism and communism are different... The only difference between socialism and communism is the same as the differences from a white cat and a brown cat... they are both cats...


Sorry you feel such pain. Why the need to tell people that their very own perception of their very own experience is incorrect?

The worst aspects of the Universal Health Care systems are inferior to the best of the US. Granted.

UHC serves the vast majority of the populace a whole lot better than the US system serves its people.

These nations use their systems to take care of their own...this is not an American priority.

Sorry Sparky...cats and dogs.
edit on 30-12-2010 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)


Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.

There is no difference between Communism and Socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end; Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.-Ayn Rand



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by TexasChem
There is no difference between Communism and Socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end; Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.-Ayn Rand


...and Universal Health Care is patriotic. Americans are real big on pledging to the flag...as I said. Not so good at pledging to each other. Ok, your choice...but don't try and call it altruism...it's selfishness, pure and simple.

We take better care of our own. We like it that way.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Look how confused people like you actually are that you claim socialism and communism are different... The only difference between socialism and communism is the same as the differences from a white cat and a brown cat... they are both cats...



The worst aspects of the Universal Health Care systems are inferior to the best of the US.

It is not in my knowledge to declare you right or wrong. Ever been treated in a U.S. hospital? Ever worked in one? I have and the best treatment was given to illegal aliens. I'm in southern California so you know who I'm talking about. Not only were they catered to bilingually, they were given all the forms to qualify for immediate free care. Insurance card holders were placed in queue while the administrators verified policies and coverage limits. If this is not socialism/communism indoctrination, I don't know what is. In canada can anyone mosey on up to the counter to receive free medical?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by TexasChem
While the philanthropical concept of everyone paying into a pool to provide for all may sound dreamily utopian; it does not negate the fact that once the consumption of that pool becomes greater than what one can pay into the pool due to the rising costs of healthcare and the number of people drawing, that pool will indeed dry up.


It keeps working in most developed countries in the world and has been for a long time. Now you declare that it doesn't. How come?


I have already stated once in this thread that after researching every tax I pay I am robbed of 40% of my yearly income.


I don't like taxes any more than you do, but I do realize that taxes are a fee for living in what tries to be a civilized society and not some distopian "Mad Max" kind of a future. Western society is indeed based on principal of public welfare, because it's a crucial ingredient that enables capitalism to function without killing off citizens and/or causing unrest, upheaval and complete loss of civility. Somehow, here in the US, we are on the path just to that, despite us being less "socialist" than every single country in the wold.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Enter the strawman... The topic is groingrinder and his $11,000 bill ummm... $3,000 bill ahhh... Free visit to the ER. As long as he has been truthful regarding his financial situation, he will be approved for AHCCCS. If his ER visit was deemed an emergent visit, and I believe it would be because of the diagnostic tests that were performed, he will have no financial responsibility... Zero, zilch, nada, none, sans mettre à l'affiche... And on the off chance his visit is deemed not to have been a medical emergency his responsibility will be $30.00.

This perfectly illustrates how ludicrous the current system is.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by maybereal11

*SNIP*



Enter the strawman... The topic is groingrinder and his $11,000 bill ummm... $3,000 bill ahhh... Free visit to the ER. As long as he has been truthful regarding his financial situation, he will be approved for AHCCCS.


Are you willing to bet his bill? If he sends you a denial letter from AHCCCS or if they haven't paid the bill in 6 months and the hostpital sends him to collections ...can he send you the letter and you pay?

You seemed to have an unusual view of AHCCCS refuted by countless news articles, patients, doctors, hospitals etc. discussing the defunding of the program and the unavailability of benefits.

I posted several news articles discussing the state of crisis with AHCCCS, the dropping of millions of patients, the denial of benefits etc...You posted the sentence "As long as he has been truthful regarding his financial situation, he will be approved for AHCCCS." as if saying it makes it fact.

Idealogically generated (disproved) "opinion" meets facts+sources and links and articles.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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LOOK people i still am confused as to how having a healthcare program automatically means that you are socialist or communist..simple as.
I mean i come from British Columbia Canada and it is very demo cratic....heck i remember when the NDP was in power and they were doing such a pi$$ poor job we were able to get enough votes together to actually have them REMOVED from power....I mean how much power to the people is that....
If Americans want to keep listening to the right wing capitalists who are doing nothing but making fortunes off of the sick and the ill more fools you...
If you actually believe that universal health care will send your country down the road to ruin....once again more fools you.
If you want to keep filling the pockets of the Elite cause they can Afford a better education and can keep steping on the toes of others...then yet again more fool you.
makes never no mind to me if you think people should suffer further when they are sick...especially finacially...well...yet again more fool you.
From the sounds of it you are saying canada,european,Australian societies are not Democracies....very strange that is....
The country who try to say they are a becon to the world yet they let their own people down time after time after time by lies...and by a class system which segregates people in their own Society.....Glad i dont live there...and let me say this...when an American comes over the the uk and they get looked at by the health here while on holiday....will it cost them an arm and a leg...nope.
So those people who tote the wonderous vitues of pure capitalism....you can keep it....don't bring it over here...as we don't want it.....same as ...keep your greed out of Canada.....cause it is not welcomed there Either.
I have lived in the States....And frankly once you live in other places the states does not seem so appealing....so as long as you keep it over there that is great.....and Really what is wrong with wanting to try to achieve a Utopian Society where people do actually care for one another....oh right then i might not get to have some sort of SUPPOSED power over another human being through my wealth,
My American Friends that lost everything because they became ill did not deserve that..they were hard working tax paying citizens and got treated like dirt on the bottom of someones shoes....And like i said the stress led my friend to an Early grave,,,,GREAT AMERICA be proud.
edit on 013131p://f09Thursday by plube because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by plube
If Americans want to keep listening to the right wing capitalists who are doing nothing but making fortunes off of the sick and the ill more fools you...
If you actually believe that universal health care will send your country down the road to ruin....once again more fools you.
If you want to keep filling the pockets of the Elite cause they can Afford a better education and can keep steping on the toes of others...then yet again more fool you.


Well said (sort of). The right wing elite continues to sell the individualistic tripe to public who then proceeds to bend over in order to be had by same elite.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

It keeps working in most developed countries in the world and has been for a long time. Now you declare that it doesn't. How come?



There is no other country on Earth offering 100% free healthcare to illegal aliens (as we do with the EMTALA ACT).

1/3rd of Mexico's workforce is in America getting 100% free healthcare. There's a total of 45 million foreigners who broke into America to get whatever they can for free....healthcare is one of them via the EMTALA Act. 20% of our population getting 100% free healthcare isn't even American's.

NO other country on Earth offers such a program. This is why so many clinics and hospitals especially in California had to close. The Federal Government ordered them to offer 100% free healthcare to non-Americans with the EMTALA Act.


Also other Developed Countries did not have to deal with a populace that was heavily poisoned with Dioxins and Toxins from our Industrial Revolution which resulted in hyper Diabetes and Obesity as those peoples DNA's were destroyed. Now we've got a genetic disorder being passed down to the next generation because we've destroyed our very DNA.

Which now forces, for National Security...that we leave the southern border open to get a fresh supply of people coming in with good DNA...since we've destroyed ours.

No other Developed Country accidentally poisoned their own citizens because chemicals were being poured all over because the last Generation were mentally deficient. Almost every single water way in America is labeled "hindered' in reports to Congress from being too polluted.

Which forced another evil....we had to run with "Free Trade" to get crap made in China. To get those polluting factories out of country to give our air, soil, and water time to cleanse themselves out. Plus the fact we have a Generation now with destroyed DNA that can't sit for 12 hours a day on a sewing machine making clothes or shoes.

I argue we are NOT a Developed Nation. We're a Nation suffering thru something no country has ever encountered, self destruction by the prior Generation. We therefor will never generate enough revenue to fund a National Healthcare. We've got to fund the +70 million Baby Boomers Social Security benefits and Medicare....but those are the idiots that destroyed us.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Well said (sort of). The right wing elite continues to sell the individualistic tripe to public who then proceeds to bend over in order to be had by same elite.


Nice try... but you fail... Perhaps you forget that the forefathers of the nation you call home were "highly individualistic"... and the Constitution and Bill of Rights they wrote and which to this day is part of the "Law of the Land" also were written to defend "individualism"... But of course, the left these days don't even know what individualism is really all about... and I'll give you a hint... it has NOTHING to do with corpocratism.... But you have become so ignorant, and there are many like you, that you actually don't know what individualism really is all about...



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by TexasChem
 




Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.


Then, by your own definition, universal healthcare or welfare is not socialist, since it does not fulfill the above. Quite the contrary, it ensures that man can exist even if he is not currently serving the society (earning money), and the society cannot dispose of him by denying him medical care or basic necessities, even if it decides he is not serving it enough.
edit on 30/12/10 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Pervius

1/3rd of Mexico's workforce is in America getting 100% free healthcare. There's a total of 45 million foreigners who broke into America to get whatever they can for free....healthcare is one of them via the EMTALA Act. 20% of our population getting 100% free healthcare isn't even American's.


uhhh...first off estimates of Illegal Aliens run around 12 Million at last count and have dropped significantly during the economic crisis.

But even if I was take your fictional number of 45 Million....45/310 (US population) that is 14%, not 20%.

Taking actual researched numbers like 12 Mil (in 2006 ..pre-recession) 12/310 equals 3.8%...assuming each and every illegal immigrant avails themselves of the healthcare system.

Hard to take someone serioussly that fictionalizes numbers and can't even do the math on the numbers they fictionalize.

I realize though that demagoguery is inconvenienced by accuracy, mathmatical or otherwise.




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