I spent 3 hours in the ER on the 15th. I just got my $11,000.00 bill in the mail.

well Thanks for the info which confirms what people told me about their biggest worry in the states was "how do i pay for it if i should become sick" what a great American society huh...the land of the free....well well.....how disgusting that a society can care so little for the people whom become ill in a society...I am from canada and i now live in the UK....and many people say the health care is free...Well it is not free....but it is free to use...We pay for the system through our hard earned tax dollars....and believe me i am so glad that we do....how awful to become ill and to have to face...as somebody said...bankrupcty...that is soo immoral it is unbelievable.
I myself to this day do not understand Americas animosity against a health care system for everyone...RICH or POOR....why is it such a hard concept to understand.
It is paid for by the people and it is for the people....is that not within your constitution.....does it not fit into the realm of realism for people.
A healthy society is a good society...it does not make it a welfare state...but hey as some reponses on here are quite ummmm...no other way to put it DRACONIAN i guess it is what the GREAT American society wants...the haves and have nots....where a sickness can send one into bankruptcy....You see not all peole want to be like America...that is propaganda by the American media....in my travels around the world i would say most peole want nothing to do with the American Capitalist ways where they have not one ounce of care for their own society....
I am glad to see though that there are many whom are compassionate and willing to show that compassion to the OP....the OP i am sure is a very worthy soul and just cause they only make x number of dollars a month is absolutely no reason to bash them....since when is everything about money....take your i am better because i have money attitude and shove it up your A$$ because if that is how one becomes cause one has money then you can keep it.
The world will be a better place once we begin to heal it though compassion for others rather than being selfish greedy hateful people who only look at their own worth by the size of their bank account.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


The police in Mexico are crooked as hell. They shake down tourists all the time. My roomate and his friend made a trip to Mexico in his buddys sports car. They blew all their money on strippers and booze, and as they were leaving the cops pulled them over, and were giving them the runaround. They made them empty out their pockets and place everything on the hood of the car. They didn't outright ask for a bribe, but apparently one of the cops kept spinning their wallets around on the hood and saying "We may have to impound your car and hold you for questioning". They had actually spent almost all of their money and told the cops to check their wallets and they had like $12 between them. Once the cops saw that they just sighed in disgust and let them go, lol.

That's nothing though compared to the horror stories my friend from Brazil has told me about his experiences with the police in Rio.

Originally posted by LarryLove

Nationalised health care has nothing to do countries going bankrupt. You cite European countries needing to be bailed out by the IMF. Again, their respective medical systems are not primary contributors to their economic problems. Greece, for example, were dishonest about their sovereign debt when they joined the Euro in the early 2000s. This was a primary reason for the IMF bailout. Bank solvency was a key reason for Ireland experiencing economic problems.
...

Really?...

Read the first two paragraphs on the following link, after the bad news they try to soften the blow of the truth of socialised healthcare...

09/10/2010
Healthcare deficits put focus on frontline performance in medical care

Facing billion-euro deficits, European healthcare systems are putting hospital operations under the microscope to find areas where costs can be slashed dramatically, reports John Brosky.

The crisis in European healthcare has moved beyond a political solution as national health services face more immediate financial pressures with rapidly expanding budget deficits.

Millions of patients are lining up each day for medical care valued in billions of euros from hospitals that are challenged for the staff and equipment to meet these ever-growing demands.
In the face of this urgent and life-threatening condition, governments have now turned sharply toward the hospital, desperately demanding doctors and nurses do more with the same.
...

www.european-hospital.com...

reply to post by mishigas


Well no it is not free Mis so what...we pay for it through taxes..is that a bad thing....why is it bad....yes i will defend free health care through and through...do you actually think peole are stupid...that we in those countries don't realise where it comes from....how rediculous of a statment.
the fact that you can walk into a hospital no matter who you are and get seen to and get access to medicines is a bad thing...you show me how it is a bad thing.
Also i know of get this...BUS LOADS...of elderly Americans coming on medicine runs to get meds they cannot afford in your country.....how sad is that.....your willing to bash countries for free medical and cheaper meds...i cant wait till your old and in need of those same meds...maybe you might have to embark on one of those bus journeys.
Peaple are telling of their medical systems to show that it is not a bad way to go....imean you could always implement a two tier system where the poor get free access but if your rich you can still pay top dollar for that specialty tummy tuck...to make yourself appear that little bit younger for longer to satisfy your self importantance.
Unbelievable...some of the comments in here are just sick and self centered with a complete and utter lack of compassion for another fellow HUMAN BEING....disgusting

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Clutching at straws. This article is more concerned with how General Electrics can spearhead a cost-cutting regime within European health care systems. There's no news here.

Again, your fear of Socialism and the spectre of Communism fills your mind.

Edit: if you are going to dredge up random articles from the internet, you better ensure they talk about your premise that nationalised health care is bankrupting European countries.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Mate...that is in all departments in goverment throughout the world right now...it is not the health care making the system bankrupt it is the banks..the CAPITALISTS...your inflated American housing market based on bad loans that did that...please don't try to wash over with crap.....that is complete and utter disinfo that you are putting out right there by trying to pinpoint cuts in one area....every system throughout is facing cuts...if you hate healhcare then so be it...not a big deal...but please dont not try to say healthcare is bankrupting Europe cause just look in your own backyard to see how the recession has affected America.
What a load of rubbish

Originally posted by groingrinder
I had an EKG and a urine test and a ultrasound. Plus some intravenous pain killer. My hands are shaking uncontrollably right now because I am so ticked off. MEDICINE SHOULD NOT COST THIS MUCH. I have lost my job and make $50.00 dollars a month. To be fair I must say that Banner Baywood discounted my bill by $8,000.00 so that my final bill is only $3,000.00, but I still cannot pay that when I only have fifty bucks a month coming in. I owe the Radiologist $460.00 dollars for their test and I still have not gotten the bill from the ER doctor who will bill separately. I will update this thread after I talk to the financial responsibility representative from Banner Baywood.

Okay so call the hospital up and see if you can get a payment plan, trust I have had to do this before. They are okay with you if you admit you cannot pay because of you income, and they will give you the lowest amount you can pay based on how much you make. It make take a few years to pay them off but it's better then having credit people call you and possibly getting into legal trouble if you don't pay.

Originally posted by plube
...how awful to become ill and to have to face...as somebody said...bankrupcty...that is soo immoral it is unbelievable.

Another great lie i keep reading from people who would make up any excuse to force Americans to take on socialised healthcare...

Care to show us figures of Americans who went bankrupt BECAUSE OF HEALTHCARE vs Canadians who went bankrupt for the same reasons?...

Originally posted by plube
I myself to this day do not understand Americas animosity against a health care system for everyone...RICH or POOR....why is it such a hard concept to understand.

Because we know that your system is as flawed, if not more, than our own, so why should we follow the socialised system?... even the socialised healthcare system?...

I have seen a lot of Europeans and Canadians whine about the NWO. but these same people don't whine about these same rich elitists trying to impose on the U.S. the socialised system, including healthcare, that so many other nations were indoctrinated into loving...

One last thing, in case Europeans and some others can't remember, the Americans who fled Europe came to the U.S. to escape the European inquisition against religion, and the government imposing more, and more taxes, as well as becoming more dictatorial, yet you all want us to forget our past and to give in to the global socialization you have all been brainwashed into idolising?...

Originally posted by plube
It is paid for by the people and it is for the people....is that not within your constitution.....does it not fit into the realm of realism for people...

The forefathers favored real capitalism, not the corporatism the rich elites have forced upon us all.
The forefathers didn't want to FORCE Americans to pay for the medical bills of others...

So to answer your question, socialism, or even socialised healthcare are not forced upon the people by the U.S. Constitution... In fact the forefathers wrote CLEARLY that the only form of government that shall be guaranteed by the states is a REPUBLICAN form of government... But too many Americans are ignorant of what it says in our Constitution, and Bill of Rights, and what it actually means to be a republican.

If you want to look at a real republican politician, Ron Paul is a clear example of what a real republican politician should be like.

Originally posted by raivo
file bankruptcy

That is even worse, my husband had to do that, we couldn't get a loan for years! It's badly reflected on your credit report for 10 years!!! Not a great option to go for, all this dude has to do is tell the hospital he cannot afford the bill, and meet with someone so he can make a low payment each month. Seriously the OP needs to get a better job, or get a job. If I wans't married or had kids I would be working right now. No doubt. Get a job is all i can say. My other advice is do not go to the ER unless you lose a limb. I stay away from doctors and I haven't been this healthy in years!!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Just one question: are you happy that nearly a trillion dollars is being budgeted for defence? That could go someway to helping over 50 million Americans without medical insurance.

reply to post by plube


The load of rubish is that people like you are entirely ignorant of U.S. history, even recent history...

First of all the Feds/banksters were forced upon the American people by a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT, known as President Woodrow Wilson, who signed the Federal Reserve Act, and the current IRS in the U.S... It was that PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT, Woodrow Wilson, who signed the U.S. economy away to the rich banksters, in a CENTRALISATION scheme that is the Feds.

BTW, in case you didn't know centralisation is part of the socialist model, it has no place in a capitalistic nation...

The U.S. housing bubble was forced upon us, among others, by another Democrat, Clinton, who wanted for everyone to afford good houses, and the banks gave loans to people who could not pay those loans. it is actually called "The Clinton Housing Bubble" for a reason... and if you actually think Clinton wanted to do it for the good of Americans you are more naive than i thought...

Bill Clinton's drive to increase homeownership went way too far
Posted by: Peter Coy on February 27, 2008

Add President Clinton to the long list of people who deserve a share of the blame for the housing bubble and bust. A recently re-exposed document shows that his administration went to ridiculous lengths to increase the national homeownership rate. It promoted paper-thin downpayments and pushed for ways to get lenders to give mortgage loans to first-time buyers with shaky financing and incomes. Its clear now that the erosion of lending standards pushed prices up by increasing demand, and later led to waves of defaults by people who never should have bought a home in the first place.
...

www.businessweek.com...

Originally posted by LarryLove
Just one question: are you happy that nearly a trillion dollars is being budgeted for defence? That could go someway to helping over 50 million Americans without medical insurance.

...I'll rather the U.S. stops sending aid to other countries...

Maybe we should do that instead...

Originally posted by LarryLove

Clutching at straws. This article is more concerned with how General Electrics can spearhead a cost-cutting regime within European health care systems. There's no news here.

Riiight... you people rather blame it all on the "evil capitalists" instead... I forget...

Originally posted by LarryLove
Again, your fear of Socialism and the spectre of Communism fills your mind.

Alongside millions of people I actually lived, and experienced the end result of the socialist utopia so many naive Europeans are asking for... Thanks but no thanks...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


that is sooo damn easy...to show..i will show one for now from wikipedia.

Medical debt is an especially notable phenomenon in the United States - the US being the world's only developed country not to offer universal health care. In less developed nations those on low income in need of treatment will often avail themselves of what ever help they can from either the state or NGOs without going into debt, but in the US medical debt has been found by a 2009 study to be the primary cause of personal bankruptcy.[2]

source

does that help...and sorry as for Canada.....there is no reason to file for medical bankruptcy as IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Sorry but medical bankruptcy in the States is not a myth....not only that...i know personally two of my American friend who had to go bankrupt due to medical costs....it was sickening for me to watch cause of where i am from. And i can honestly say the the one lady went to a early grave due to a heart attack....hmmmm ...stress would you say.....that is why i speak up on this issue.

Can i file for medical bankruptcy?
People keep telling me to do that but when i call a bankruptcy lawyer they tell me their is no such thing as "medical" bankruptcy.
I am not sure what to do because almost all of my debt is medical.

this person is asking about filing bankruptcy

she is using the termmedical bankruptcy but it is just bankruptcy but the cause of the bankruptcy is the medical bills.....shameful

Now that is just a touch....if you want type it into google and see how many people are affected...not one will be Canadian related.

Also you state about the NWO the nwo is nothing to do with this issue and can stay in other threads....and as for American history...American history is one of the SIMPLEST histories in the world as it is recent history...man what your saying is really a circular argument.....my family history alone is already 400yrs further back than American history mate......how egotistical of that statement.
i have traced my family history back to 1100 so i would think i have done pretty good.
As for the housing bubble being forced upon you i made a general statement of how your remarks were not correctly directed.....once again you might blame the clinton administration but the bottom line comes down to GREED does it not.If something is to good to be true then it isn't.
The point i was refering to was the point that you made about healthcare being the demise of Europe ....well it was not.
I am immpressed with how your trying to be thorough and i will star you for that....
hower it is misguided...and also believe me i could rip through American history with my eyes closed....it is a particular interest to me as it is part of how the NWO uses the states as their mercenary army.
But that again is for anothe thread.
Back onto the thread at hand....people moan about the medical system in Canada and The UK not because they hate it....we moan cause we love it...and would do everything in our powers to make it better and improve it.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


It is clear that you'd rather live in a right-wing mindset that is all too accustomed to not answering questions and playing make-believe with the truth.

Edit: no one system is better than another and perhaps we are just used to the systems we have and change is difficult. I have said all along in this thread that health care should be equal and based on the patient's condition and not their income. For the record, 'Socialist' or 'Commie Care' isn't free and as Plube says, we pay for it through taxation and receive just as good a level of care as insurance-based ones.

reply to post by plube


Wikipedia for an unbiased source on leftwing ideology?....

As for no medical bankrupcies in Canada?... really people, you expect no one to see the fairy tales you like to claim in favour of your socialised system?...

The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Canadian Cancer Patient
It's been a while since I've discussed my homeland, Canada, and I'm not usually one to traffic in horror stories of government-monopoly health care. But this story from Windsor, Ontario (right across the river from Detroit) is too appalling to pass up.

A 30-yr old man was diagnosed with stage IV melanoma: skin cancer that has migrated inside and invaded his chest and bowel. Although the skin cancer was diagnosed years ago, the stage IV was diagnosed late. Now, that may be because of the government monopoly's lack of access to specialists, but it may also be idiosyncratic. Even with the best access to health care, doctors can't catch everything.

In this case, what happened after the diagnosis is what's truly appalling. Because his home-province of Ontario does not have the capacity to treat this advanced cancer, the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP), which has absolute control over every Ontarian's insured health care, must contract with U.S. providers. Scheduled for treatment in Detroit, OHIP screwed up the paper-work and he could not go.

Once things were sorted out, OHIP no longer contracted with the hospital in Detroit (right across the river, as mentioned above), so he has to go to Buffalo, NY - four hours away.
Tragically, he hasn't been able to work, and his wife has just had a baby. The family relies on the charity of neighbors for the baby's clothes and other needs.

No "medical bankruptcy" under government-monopoly health care? Don't you believe it.

free-american-healthcare.blogspot.com...

One more thing...

Canada
July 07, 2009 Email Print Free Newsletter
The Fraser Institute: U.S. Medical Bankruptcies a Myth; Personal Bankruptcy Rate Higher in Canada TORONTO, ONTARIO -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 07/07/09 -- The idea that large numbers of Americans are declaring bankruptcy due to medical expenses is a myth and the introduction of government-run health insurance in the U.S. will do nothing to reduce personal bankruptcies, concludes a new study from the Fraser Institute, an independent think tank.

The current debate about reforming U.S. health care policy has included suggestions that nearly two-thirds of personal bankruptcies in the U.S. result from uninsured medical expenses or loss of income due to illness. Advocates of socialized medicine argue that this would not occur if the U.S. adopted a government-run health system similar to Canada's.

But Brett Skinner, author of Health Insurance and Bankruptcy Rates in Canada and the United States and Fraser Institute director of bio-pharma, health and insurance policy research, says the evidence doesn't support the bankruptcy claim.

"If socialized medicine played a role in reducing personal bankruptcies, we would expect to see a lower rate of personal bankruptcy in Canada compared to the United States. Yet the reverse is true. The personal bankruptcy rate is actually higher in Canada than it is in the U.S.," he said.

Skinner compared bankruptcy data in the U.S. and Canada from 2006 and 2007, and found that personal (non-business) bankruptcy filings as a percentage of the population were 0.2 per cent in the U.S. during 2006 and 0.27 per cent in 2007. In Canada, the numbers are 0.3 per cent in both 2006 and 2007.

"There is no evidence to support the idea that a government-run health care system in the U.S. will reduce personal bankruptcies," Skinner said.

www.insurancenewsnet.com...

reply to post by Shamanistical

Personally, if I found myself in such a predicament, I'm not so sure I'd feel justified to pick your pocket, take a sandwich from the mouth of your children, or steal the roof over your home to pay for MY misfortune

lol. Well, aren't you fabulous!
And a taste for theatrics too, I see. So sorry about your roof.

And besides, what's all the stink about health care anyhow, it's not like humans are an endangered species and must be protected at all costs.

As I said in an earlier post, there are those here, for whom life has no value. Nice to meet you. You'll feel right at home here on this thread.

Of course, you do value something I see..............Roofs. lol. Particularly when it's your own?

If I'm ever in need of a Shaman, think I'll shop around a little. Wouldn't want to use any of your little herbs and spices, you might need them some day to keep that roof in good shape and I certainly wouldn't want to be the cause of any discomfort for your little head.

Sorry about the "not caring" thing. It can be learned and developed over time. Don't give up, it could happen for you yet. I'm sure your Shaman practice will pick up too, when you give a rat's bootie about your customers.

I'll be pulling for you.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


You really should stop thinking in those narrow left vs. right, republican vs. progressive, or "socialist" vs. libertarian brackets.

What is more "socialist", currency contolled only by the state, or currency controlled by private entities (FED)? If you want to think in brackets..

Dont ask yourself what is more libertarian or "socialist", ask yourself what is BETTER or WORSE.

"Socialist" currency control by returning the right to issue it (without debt) only to the state is more "socialist", but BETTER than current private control.

"Socialist" healthcare alternative for the poor is better than having no alternative at all.

"Socialist" Clinton policy causing insolvent homeowners to get mortgages is BAD. Why? Notice the word "mortgages". If those houses full price was actually subsidized or payed by the state, not just encouraging people to take mortgages they cant pay off and then leave them to it, there would be NO mortgage bubble and NO recession, even if paying peoples houses would be even more socialist policy.
Unsustainable market manipulation (fraud) socialism is BAD. Services payed from taxes with no debt attached, that is GOOD.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Rather than mindless trips on Google to extract articles that don't relate to OP's problems in hand, could you begin to answer a few questions.

Are you happy with the status quo? If not, what changes would you like to see?

Should a patient be treated based on their condition and not level of income?

Do over 50 million Americans without insurance deserve alternate methods to attain cover?

A nationalised health care system is paid for through taxes. It isn't free. If you are happy to support a trillion-dollar defence budget through taxation, why object to paying for medical coverage the same way?

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
...
As I said in an earlier post, there are those here, for whom life has no value. Nice to meet you. You'll feel right at home here on this thread.
...

Care to tell us what in the world do you know about us to claim we don't care for human life?...

What we care for is that there is no need to be FORCED under another socialist doctrine to pay for anyone else.

You know nothing about me, however, one thing I have noticed in my 38 years of life in this planet and in this life is that people who normally like to claim, or brag about what wonderful human beings they are, are in fact the most stingy and uncaring people you can find anywhere.