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Police fatalities jump 37 percent in 2010

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posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by thewholepicture
Has anyone looked at the statistic on how many cops have killed people this year compared to years past?

Seems to me that police themselves have become more violent and it could be (right or wrong) many people, criminal or not, are just retaliating.

I do not think it is right to kill a police officer, but just trying to look at both sides of the coin.

It's a viscous circle that is just going to get worse.

And the culprit: the government on all levels and many of there stupid laws and procedures. (but people don't see that, they just see that they want to retaliate, both cops and others)


An intresting observation, and I think I can maybe shed some light on that, but I am not sure others will accept it. As Law Enforcement whenever we think something bad might occur, we ask for additional units to respond, where the idea is the number of officers can and usually does act as a deterant.

However.....

With the economy being craptastic and only added more crap, we are running into increased crime in terms of theft / burglary since to some its literally coming down to basic survival.

Law Enforcement, since we are non revenue producing (contrary to what people think) are generally the first department to face cuts. With a decrease in manpower, and crime on the rise the issues just mount.

If we come across a situation and request backup, it might not be there for 20-30 minutes (as a municipal Officer I have been sent rom my city on one part of the county all the way over the the opposite county line to assist another municipal and deputy on a call 20-30 miles away). so if the situation continues to escalte, and the officer is unable to disengage without causing a danger to themselves or others, it will move into a deadly force encounter.

This means if I am dealing with a guy who is threatening me who makes the claim he is a green beret, I have no other choice but to take the guy serious, whether he is telling the truth or not. Since there level of training is going to be above mine, he crossed the threshold into the realm of a deadly force encounter. If he advances or continues to act in a threatening manner, we are within law and policy to shoot to end the threat if no other options are available, including waiting 20 minutes for backup to arrive.

There is a simple fix to the use of deadly force though - When an officer tells you ro do something, comply with it. If you dont agree with it thats fine, file an IA complaint at a later time instead of arguing and making the situation worse than what it is.




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by SmokeandShadow

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
This is good.

More dead cops equates to more freedom for the people.




Wow, as distasteful as this and some other comments are, sadly I have to agree. I wish everyone would remember though, AS LONG AS FRUITLESS LAWS EXIST there will be no freedom. That includes trivial, frivolous laws and ALL DRUG LAWS.

In regards to why more cops and federal agents are being killed, I can only assume it is because gun laws are useless against discouraging actual criminals and real crime.


Somewhat agree, but the main point everyone seems to forget, or ignore is the fact Law Enforcement does NOT make the laws, we only enforce them, and even then we have some discretion. Instead of bitching about cops doing their job, why not bitch to city council and get invovled to get the stupid ass laws changed??

Absent doing that, its like screaming at the sky because its raining out.

Get involved!



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by lastrebel
 

GOOD cops will not take up arms against the people for some BS the government or ptb are doing. I will take off my badge before that happens and my chief feels the same way.
Seeashrink

edit on 29-12-2010 by seeashrink because: spelling


As an officer as well, we wil stand side by side on that day.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by RedGolem
 





These so-called cluster killings of more than one officer helped make 2010 a particularly dangerous year for law enforcement. Deaths in the line of duty jumped 37 percent to about 160 from 117 the year before, according to numbers as of Dec. 28 compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a nonprofit that tracks police deaths.


Less police funding = less police officers. Less police officers = more crime. More crime = police officers to work much more forcibly. Police officers acting more forcibly = criminals really hating police and killing big bunches of them.

Logical answer to the question " how to stop multi police shootings?" = ensure proper police funding in the first place.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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Here's something that may be tied in to the issue at hand:

Cops' Use of Illegal Steroids a 'Big Problem'

The article cited in this thread says that steroids might be in use by up to 25% of the police force, nationwide. If there is any truth to these figures, the combative LE style we are seeing, the abuse of force and power, and the spike in LEO deaths could definitely be attributed to steroid-induced thinking.

What do the LE's in this thread think about this connection?



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by riiver
 


I agree with ya here. I think that there are a lot of good policemen and women. I have to admit I have even dealt with them. I was in a car wreck and the other driver was up in the officers face (obviously strung out on meth) and screaming at her. To this I thought "this is why I am not a police officer", because, 1.) I would have pulled him for a drug pee test and 2.) when he obviously would have gotten even more blatantly retarded and assinine and fought the arrest, it would have given me a great excuse to blow his head off, and yet that officer did not do anything like that. Though I still think she should have taken him in for a pee test as he was obviously strung out and the fact he and his old hag had not one of their own teeth in their mouths (a clear sign of drug abuse) and only thirty something years old at that, I am in my thirties and still have all my teeth, however now recently having them disintigrate due to lack of dental care, but even with a lifetime without dental care nobody should lose all their teeth in their 30's unless they are doing some crystal meth... I should know I mean my Hubby has not had dental care all his life and still has all his teeth, though they are degraded as normally will happen without regular cleanings and exams well you get my point. They were obviously in need of being tested. Anyway the police officer knew however that the druggy would fight and worse would come of it, so she let it pass. Also I have dealt with another very nice officer who stopped me for my breaklights and turn sgnals being out (eletrical problem I didn't know about). He was very understanding I told him that I had no idea as the car literally sat for days without me driving etc, he gave me the lowest ticket he could, and It was no hassle to pay it. Wasn't that expensive either. So yes there are still good officers, but it seems more often they are the exception and not the rule.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by blamethegreys
Here's something that may be tied in to the issue at hand:

Cops' Use of Illegal Steroids a 'Big Problem'

The article cited in this thread says that steroids might be in use by up to 25% of the police force, nationwide. If there is any truth to these figures, the combative LE style we are seeing, the abuse of force and power, and the spike in LEO deaths could definitely be attributed to steroid-induced thinking.

What do the LE's in this thread think about this connection?


That studies like this are useful to educate leos about the dangers in ysing them, but skewed statitically because its a sample.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by lastrebel
 

GOOD cops will not take up arms against the people for some BS the government or ptb are doing. I will take off my badge before that happens and my chief feels the same way.
Seeashrink

edit on 29-12-2010 by seeashrink because: spelling


As an officer as well, we wil stand side by side on that day.


If those are honest answers........and I have absoulty no reason to believe either of you are BSing...........You give me a ray of hope that the entire system isnt corupt from top to bottom

BUT..........

I cant say I buy into the "few bad apples" line...........I would like to hear from one of you about the stats on the link i posted..........the part where it shows that a police officer is more likely to be a rapist or a murder than an average citizen........and remember the stats dont include killing in the line of duty........just murder. In the year provided 200 women and 219 children were raped by police and 258 people were murdered..........a statistical number that per 100,000 people is a greater number than are killede and raped by criminals.........to me that is much more than just a few bad apples



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by lastrebel
 


I am being honest in my answer, and have stated this position before in other threads that dealt with a collapse moving into a Govt. Vs. People setup. Our job is to protect society, not the people who think they should have absolute control over it. As a matter of fact at both the Federal and State Level, the oath we take is to protect and defend the US and State constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, just like the military.

This is intentioanlly designed as a reminder to those people the citizens elect and entrust with their authority to govern. That if the governing becomes counter to the laws of the Constitution, and all other recourse is attempted and forcibly blocked, its our duty to fix the problem.

I am a firm believer in Government participation by the people. I am a firm beleiver in cops being forced to play fair with everyday people, while being able to not play fair against those who go out of their way to cause problems with the everday people.

I am a firm beleiver in firm but fair as well as the adage that sometimes giving a warning will do greater good than writing a citation or charging the person with a crime. I am a firm beleiver in second chances, as well as 3rd 4th or 5th chances to people who are trying to get help for drugs / alcohol issues (that dont adversely affect others in an imminent dangerous setup).

With all that stted, it really comes back to one thing - The people participating in their Government and reminding the elected officals who their bosses are. I dont care for Donald TRump but I agree with his philosiphy that if you arent hacking it, its time to go.

The issue with the Bad Apple comment is the fact that we are 50 states with a patchwork of State Laws as well as local municpality laws. An officer in one jurisdiction mighthave the ability to cite a passenger in a vehicle for possessing an open alcohol container, where the Deputy sherrif does not have this ability (in my state) so people get a skewed view of law enforcement based on encounters / contact, which can be confusing, and lead to the bad apple perception.

That being said, there are bad cops who have no business being in uniform. If these people are not washed in the academy, then they get washed during their field training cycle. Once they hit the street, and it happens because some people know to keep their mouth shut during training, and open them after they are on their own) its up to officers, command staff and the citizens tokeep us in check.

I have no problem standing to back a fellow officer. When the person crosses the line though, backing them just because they were a uniform runs contrary to our sworn oath. As with everyone else, they are innocent until proven guilty. I think people truely do not understand how difficult it is to do Law Enforcement in terms of knowing, and enforcing state and local law, while having your actions tweaked by Federal ase Law.


As far as the stats go the sample is going to be weird because it is basing its comparison of Police to the population as a whole. This is going to inflate the numbers since instead of comparing a random sample to the entire population, it picks a particular part of the population to compare against the whole.

Does the stuff happen as the report states? It does and the fact its done by someone who is in a position of trust again makes it very hard to gain the publics trust when we need it most.

Here is the weird thing about the difference between Cops and Criminals. We both think exactly alike in almost every situation. The difference, and this is where the thin line comes in, is acting on those thoughts. In order for us to effectively deal with crooks, we have to think like them. We are trained during the acedemy and pretty much reminded on a daily basis to play the what if game.

What if im eating lunch and someone comes in with a gun. What if a car accident occurs and the driver is drunk, etc. We also play the how to game as well.. If I were a crook, how would I break into this store, car, apartment, house, school? How would I get items out, how would I sell those items, where to stash them, who to sell them to who dont use the pawnshop network.

As far as the stats go about rape and murder, we again run into a sampleing issue. We know exact criminal stats because the info is logged both in our local and state system, as well as mandatory reporting to the FBI for their annual crime stats which determine federal funds.

The Jail system also does the same thing, so any person who is booked in or given a citation and released is counted. Trying to track Law Enforcement again is not going to be exact, and it will cause things to inflate due to the narrow parameter of comparison.

Here is some info though the report leaves out. Take murders / homocides as an example. The number they give is off because anytime a Law Enforcement Officer stops a threat (kills a person) or the State executes a person, no matter how justified it was, is listed as a homocide in the system, either as justified or Court ordered. We dont have any special terms because it is what it is, murder/homicide.

We also run into the issue of Cops knowing the laws and knowing how to conduct an investigation into these areas to the extent its possible for us to commit a crime and cover it up more easily than the general public.

Taking the stats at their face value its disturbing, both as an Officer and as a private Citizen, knowing people are capable of abusing the publics trust. The best response I can give is we do our best to not go down that road, and to our best to prevent fellow officers from doing it, or continuing to do it once caught.

We are not perfect in any sense of the imagination, and the stats is a reminder of that.

The question now is how do we use those numbers to come up with a game plan to bring the numbers down to 0?
edit on 29-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
Anyway the police officer knew however that the druggy would fight and worse would come of it, so she let it pass.


Their is no dishonor in not engaging a person at that exact moment in time. There is no dishonor in LEO's withdrawing from a situation to wait for other officers in an attempt to end a situation peacefully, where if the sole officer reminaed it could be a justified use of deadly force.

This comment is not directed at you, so please dont take offense, but people do not understand or comprehend, at least in my opinion and observations while in court, what is required for officers to use deadly force. They do not comprehend how it affects the officers.

I know someone will make the how does the family feel argument, and its valid, but skewed when attempting to understand this. Even if its a good shoot, and we are trained to take action, does not mean we are going to be mentally ok after an incident like that. Some people can shrug it off, others cannot live with it, and thats just for a good shoot.

If its a bad shoot, an innocent person is killed because of being in the wrong place and the wrong time holding the wrong item in their hand, is bad for the family, and worse for the officer. Being cleared in a shooting where an innocent person was killed is a tough one, and not many people can recover from it to the point they were at before the incident happened.

We can go through all the training on the planet, but nothing is going to prepare you for pointing a firearm at someone and squeezing the trigger and ending a persons life. Its harder yet when trying to find the answer on why the person did not jsut comply with the commands to show hands, or drop the weapon etc.

The majority of Officers do what we can to get out of doing reports, simply because 90% of law enforcement is report writing or some type of paperwork. The best example is hours of boredom followed by minutes of sheer terror.

I leave with this... When LEOs do dischharge their weapons, the media does their own trial. We cannot release all the info because its an active criminal investigation, both into the person comitting the crime, and the officer for shooting to stop a threat.

In my time in LAw Enforcement I have been involved in one officer involved shooting. Hindisght in situations is always 20/20 and people and media liek to play that game. What does not make it on the news is how the cops also play that game with themselves after an incident like a shooting occurs. Is there anything I could have done differently, why didnt the guy show me his hands, why wasnt my backup closer, if another officer were here maybe the person would have complied, did the guy not hear me yelling, did he not see I was a cop, was this the right suspect?

Couple the above with returning to work and facing the exact same situation a week after being back. I am not trying to defend the bad cops out there, but am trying to get non law enforcement to understand we are not all cold blooded killers, and the manner in which we perform our job is a very unique club with lots of dos and donts. Its not as easy as people make it out to be in terms of us pulling a gun and shooting someone.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


overall a good reply

again BUT........lol


You are wrong about the murder stats, the only ones counted are those that involved police misconduct, not clean kills



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Marked One
 


You got that right, Marked One...
My father is a cop...Maybe those guys should be shot with a Glock 17? I believe so.
Also, this seems to be caused by the financial meltdown on Wall St. Robberies are way up in our city...people are broke.
And you know what guys, if you don't want a #ing police presence, move to Camden, NJ. Their police force is so damn small you'd never see 'em.
And sure, cops are elitist pigs. Yeah, when half of them have to take PT jobs to support their families...
So, here's a question. Some crack whore in the Compton gets shot. Does that justify some punk's killing of a Miami Police Officer?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by lastrebel
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


overall a good reply

again BUT........lol


You are wrong about the murder stats, the only ones counted are those that involved police misconduct, not clean kills


Its harder to give the answer you want I think. People do what peple are going to do, and unless there are signs we are caught off guard when it happens. Its an issue that needs to be dealt with, but im not sure how to go about doing it. Almost all police agencies require testing in all areas, from physical to psychiatric, extended background checks etc.

Even after all that you will have ones that made it through.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


To be honest.......there isnt an answer I "want" . Just an honest reply........and you gave me one, thank you.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by lastrebel
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


To be honest.......there isnt an answer I "want" . Just an honest reply........and you gave me one, thank you.


Your welcome I think lol.. not sure if you are serious or being sarcastic. If its the latter rephrase your question and I will try to answer it again.
edit on 30-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by seeashrink
 


Good to see ya again sea....well....might not agree with the war but you will have a ton of soldiers by ur sideas well. Me nor anyone in my company would ever turn weapons on our people.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 
You got a couple recon guys who will be right with u



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:13 AM
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I was just wondering about this the other day, and it seems that everytime there's a temporary increase in the numbers of police officer deaths, the official reason always has something to do with lack of resources available to the officers. Have the "bad guys" figured out a way to become more violent than before? I don't think so. . .as there are a finite number of crimes one can commit in a lifetime.

Yet everytime I turn around, the police announce they're using some new weapon of sorts. Or some new license plater reader, or maybe a "new" self defense method. Yet somehow, in the midst of keeping up with "street trends", more lives of officers are lost? It's terrible that there has been an increase in the amount of officers who've lost their lives in the name of protecting the "innocent". To publicize this will help increase the budgets for police agencies around the nation.

But what sort of budget increase to innocent civilians get when their numbers of police-related deaths increases? Or an officer responding to a call without lights and sirens can crash into innocent teens, kill them, then has to face NO charges? What kind of additional resources do WE ask for when people sometimes die at the hands of over-zealous cops who shoot or taze a deaf person or disabled person till death? If an officer dies in the line of duty, even if he trips and falls while running for cover, the perpetrator is guilty of murder. If one of us dies as the result of an abusive police officer, it's called "justified". I'm just saying, though.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by Divine Strake
 


It does boil down to lack of resources.. City Council buys new items for the Police at the request of the Police, but it does not mean the police or the even the city are paying for it (technology grants, COP grants etc). Also when funding crunches come, one of the areas impacted is training. We are required (in all states if I remeber right) to undergo a certain amount of training per year in key areas (Legal, Inter personal communication (think racial profiling classes / civil rights etc), technical studies as well as hands on training (firearms, defensive tactics etc).

Most agencies do quarterly training, which means every 3 months the force will go back and do refreshers on all of the stuff. When budget crunches hit, usually the training budget is hit first, taking to from a high standad down to the bare minimums required by law, which usually means 40 hours of conintuing training TOTAL in all the areas above (this will vary from state to state but you get the idea).

You run into the problem of not being able to higher for open positions. This means you have to reallocate resources, which usually mean the street units are shifted to plug holes, and it goes down to bare staffing levels.

So instead of havin 75 Officers on at any given time, you are now working with 3/4 to even half of that number, doing their job, and now the job of the other officers who are no longer out on patrol. Believe it or not criminals pay attention to this info, and we have had incidents where our more well known problem peoplehave been caught with their own notes in terms of where patrol beats are, the officers who work them, there car and badge number, the officers full name, shift times, overlap times, in addition to picking up on terms LEOs use that lets all officers know the city is "blacked out" - meaning there are more than 50 calls that are priority 3 or higher that are holding, with no available officers to assist.

Its really somthing to see a city that has over 300 comissioned offices blacked out, with a massive fight that breaks out downtown, and being required to mutual aid The County Sherriff in addition to 4 surrounding cities.

That alone sends the signal to the criminals of whats going on, and only empowers them.

When you are the first to arrive and there are 50 people fighting, and all take notice on you, and you have no backup for about 5-10 minutes, oit has an effect. You will have officers who will leave because the risk now is at a critical level, and they have familes to provide for. So they will leave and go work elsewhere where there is adequate staffing and better pay with available resources.

Having a state of the art equipped Police Department does nothing for the community if there are no Officers to stand watch and use that technology.

As an afterthought, there are agencies still in the US who do not have the funding to provide bullet resistant vests to their officers. The officers either have to buy them on their own, from another agency when they upgrade their vests, or through programs designed to get vests to officers, while writing it off or allwoing a 2 year payment process.

Law Enforcement can go toe to toe with the most advanced criminal, but we are restricted by the fact we have to legally purchase our items, where the criminals either dont, or use stolen items to raise the cash to make the purchase.

If you are remotely curious how a state of the art police department can be hamstrung, look at the North Hollywood Shootout that occured in Los Angeles back in the day. 2 guys with full body armor and autmatic weapons (AK-47) and pistols robbed a bank. The ensuing shootout was so bad that the City of Los Angeles declared a tactical emergency (their equivelant of martial law) in order to get as many officers on scene as possible.

2 guys were able to hold pretty much the entire LAPD at bay for hours. Eventually the order for head shots was given, and LAPD officers found a gun store and comandeered their AR-15s/m-16 rifles. The direct result of that incident was the rewriting and adoption of policies placing rifles like the AR-15 into the hands of Police.
edit on 30-12-2010 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by GirlGenius
 

I don't know about squeezed out, maybe in some cases. Many are just aging out. Regardless, I don't think it is going to get any better.
Seeashrink


edit on 30-12-2010 by seeashrink because: spelling



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