Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination

Integrating race? No problem. Integrating gender? No sweat. Integrating homosexuals? IT CANT BE DONE!

We've done well with 2/3, why are we doubting that we can pull off 3/3?

Originally posted by Xavialune
If even one rape is too much, then males need to stop serving in the military NOW. Because if 30% of females are getting raped in the military, they are far more a problem than gays raping men in the military. If one rape is too much, then no one should serve.

It happens! It sucks, it awful, its inexcusable...

But that doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to serve, and it doesnt mean they should have to be separated, and it doesn't mean that knowing someone in your unit is gay should justifiably distract you from your job.

Exactly the point I made earlier. If one can look passed the rape statistics, but is against gays in the military, there is only one explanation-hate, fear and prejudice.

Originally posted by Xavialune
No, what you dont understand is that while rape is rape, there is no point trying to differentiate between the sexes when it comes to this. Separating gays from straights isnt going to solve anything...there really isnt anything to solve in the first place.

I'm pretty sure i'm pro-equality if private showers also means seperating straight men from straight men and even straight women from straight women

Originally posted by Xavialune
Just because some men rape women in the military doesnt mean all of them do. Just the same as some gay out there might try to convert a straight doesnt mean that suddenly once theyre allowed to serve openly, all the gays are just going to start coming on to the straight men.

Really, again we are talking in absolutes?
Please do me a favor and tell me exactly where I said that ALL OF THEM will rape?
Please quote me or give me the post link

Originally posted by Xavialune
Having separate showers for males and females does not prevent rape. Having separate showers for gays and straights wont prevent anything either, but really statistically there is nothing to prevent other than you being prejudice against that guy in the corner you know is gay, and whom you percieve is looking at your ass and getting a boner, but you wont look to see if he has a woody because you don't peek in the shower? LOL you're going to have to get over this, thats the simple fact.

Once again.... private showers would seperate everyone from everyone

Secondly it won't prevent rape?
Hey we are all going to die one day right? Does that mean we should stand in the middle of highway traffic?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I still see no logic in any of that. Who cares if a guy is gay. Gay does mean = threat to straight men. Gay does not mean = uncontrollable urges towards straight men. Gay does not mean = I wanna rape straight men.

If one is so concerned about a gay man raping a straight man.....then get rid of ALL men in the military because straight men rape too.

Basically what I am reading here is that gay men are much more a threat than straight men are and there is absolutely not one ounce of proof to show this is a legit argument.

Really. No logic in any of this. Pure fear and insecurity in it all.

Im a straight woman and I would never fear being in a room full of gay/bi women anymore than I would fear being in a room full of straight men. In fact, I would feel safer and more comfortable being naked in a room of gay woman than naked in a room of straight men.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
And I can go ahead and post a hundred accounts of gays who wouldnt be caught dead trying to convert a straight person, so really, what are you trying to prove here, other than your prejudice?

your ideology is naturally incorrect.
If every man in the world turned gay
tomorrow. How many babies would be
born after 9 months from now?

ZERO !!!!

The gay agenda is a plot by the NWO
to curb population control and to push
anti-Christian morality on the general
unwitting public. And now u know
the real effects of Barium and Aluminum
sprayed in the chemtrails over the
population.

Not one single person is born gay.
They turn gay through indoctrination and social norms.
I will not be a part of that indoctrination
and neither will this Lt. Col in the op.

I am done with this thread.
I feel like I need a bath just from being
in here.

Originally posted by Gseven

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by bluemirage5
Allowing soldiers to be openly gay in the military is damaging morale of the heterosexual men and women's strong religious beliefs.

When you voluntarily travel vast distances to kill people that are not a threat to your life, which religious values do you get to stand behind again?

That is your perception and your belief, based on your armchair knowledge of what really goes on. This earth is a macrocosm of what happens within us on a biological level. If we indeed have foreign viruses, bacteria, parasites and microbes entering our bodies, killing, infiltrating, mutating and otherwise damaging healthy functions, then it's safe to say we have that equivalent in the physical world. We have anti-bodies within us....we have soldiers in the world. We have free radicals within us....we have radicals within the world. If you take the steps to kill viruses, parasites, cancers, and bacteria within your own body, then you most certainly support war on a physical level, whether you believe it or not. There is no way to be passive with the idea of war and be passive with the health of your own body. The two do not coincide, and this is the biggest flaw in logic among anti-war liberals.

The question is, what does homosexuality represent within the individual microcosm, if creation is not being fostered by the homosexual unions? Furthermore, within the microcosm, if we are turning our anti-bodies into whatever "this" is, I'm of the feeling that it can't be good.

Philosophically speaking, that is.

Wait, what? Youre saying that because gays cant procreate, they are like a virus? Is that what youre saying? I really hope not.

People have sex for more than procreation, buddy. If you think thats the only purpose, or should be the only purpose...you're not living in the real world. People like having sex, they do it for pleasure, and they do it out of love. who the hell are you to say people who cant have babies shouldnt be allowed to love each other, and we should destroy them like a cancer?

I seriously hope thats not what your point was, because I'm going to get a T&C violation if that is the case...
You think youre being philosophical...you're not sweetie. You just sound like one of those pseudo-philosophical interweb guy..

EDIT: Also, you are saying no one should be anti-war because we have antibodies inside us that kill bacteria. That is one of the most moronic things I have EVER HEARD

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Sorry, I'm finding it a little hard to take you seriously since you said yourself that straight men rape other straight men in prison when they are separated from women for extended periods of time, then dismissed the fact that straight men in the military are also separated from women for a long period of time.

What evidence do you have to support your claim that homosexuals in military showers will increase rape in the military? Pretty sure if they tried anything in the shower with a bunch of other guys around they would be coming home in a box... maybe that's what makes it different than prison.

Sorry, I think homosexuals are a lot more adapted to suppressing their sexual urges than heterosexuals are because it's a lot harder to be sexually active when your dating market is 2% of the population.

My question to you is.... do you even know what a military shower looks like? Because showers in our public schools are much more rape friendly.

If we look back on history, the greeks were in great pride with their homosexuality and even used it to great military benefits which can be clearly seen from the conquests of units such as The Sacred Band of Thebes.

Sacred Band of Thebes

This specialized group of soldiers was hand picked as an elite guard specifically because they had male lovers within the military. The reasoning behind this was the soldiers would fight even harder for their fellow man because they had a truly intimate connection.

This new age society's view on homosexual affairs is just insane - Right and wrong? You are NOT judge!

Have pride in your fellow soldier, regardless of his relations, history shows;

He might just be better then you.


-G

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
And I can go ahead and post a hundred accounts of gays who wouldnt be caught dead trying to convert a straight person, so really, what are you trying to prove here, other than your prejudice?

your ideology is naturally incorrect.
If every man in the world turned gay
tomorrow. How many babies would be
born after 9 months from now?

ZERO !!!!

The gay agenda is a plot by the NWO
to curb population control and to push
anti-Christian morality on the general
unwitting public. And now u know
the real effects of Barium and Aluminum
sprayed in the chemtrails over the
population.

Not one single person is born gay.
They turn gay through indoctrination and social norms.
I will not be a part of that indoctrination
and neither will this Lt. Col in the op.

I am done with this thread.
I feel like I need a bath just from being
in here.

So really, this all comes down to the fact that you're a bigot. You have just said it yourself. ANd what exactly does procreation have to do with this thread? Deflections, hatred, lies.....ahh yes, another day in a thread about homosexuality on ATS.

Can you prove to me that no one is born gay?What about the fact that homosexuality has been around since before recorded history? What about homosexuality in the animal kingdom, is that through indoctrination?

You obviously are out of your league here. homosexuality predates the 'NWO' (good lord), it predates christianity, it predates governments in general. Get an education.

How did I know he'd blame the NWO, again? lol

The military is a lot like jail.
We all know what goes in jails with straight men who do things they wouldn't normally do, with gay men in the prison system.

I think the fear here is that SOME straight men may succumb to SOME gay men who also are a long way from their partners for very long extended periods of time, if the situation came up.

The paradox of the situation is, in the military , the staight guys are segregated from potential sex partners - females- and there are strict regulations regarding fraternising. So obviously human nature is at least acknowledged and regulated accordingly in the military.

Gay men aren't segregated from potential sex partners - other males.

Maybe someone who knows, could tell us if there are strict regulations regarding gay men fraternising with other men in the Military? And if not, why not?
With all things being equal, it really should be gay men who are given this training course on their obligations towards other males, in this highly sensitive area - the military- that they want equal rights in. Not the other way around.

I think this whole point is the elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge.

I never said you said that all of them rape. But your argument was that separate showers would solve the problem of rapes or at least the coming on of gays to straights. Or gays looking at a straight guys ass...or something? Like I said, your points dont often make too much sense structurally, so I apologize if I am unable to understand you correctly

You never said private ONE PERSON showers. You conveniently left that fact out until this very moment..you said private showers, that is to say separate showers for the two groups (gays and straights). And I would argue a private shower is much more capable of housing someone who is raping another individual..what if someone gags someone else, throws them in the private shower and shuts the door and rapes them? that certainly isnt going to happen in a public shared shower is it? Much more likely to with a private shower, so I would reckon private showers would actually make things WORSE.

Besides, private showers for EVERYONE would be a little difficult, wouldn't it? So many people in units clamouring to take turns in these things? really? is that realistic?

these people are prejudiced and because soon they will know just how many gay people they're coexisting with, they're scared fecal-less, nothing more.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I still see no logic in any of that. Who cares if a guy is gay. Gay does mean = threat to straight men. Gay does not mean = uncontrollable urges towards straight men. Gay does not mean = I wanna rape straight men.

Again reductio ad absurdum
When did I say "Gay means = I wanna rape straight men
I mean come on, I'm speaking sensibly and you are bringing it to quite the extreme as if that's what I said

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
If one is so concerned about a gay man raping a straight man.....then get rid of ALL men in the military because straight men rape too.

Again to the extreme
Why even think of doing that when you can just act sensibly and control the situation?
Why?

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Basically what I am reading here is that gay men are much more a threat than straight men are and there is absolutely not one ounce of proof to show this is a legit argument.

Are you responding to me here?
If so when did I say that?

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Really. No logic in any of this. Pure fear and insecurity in it all.

I don't think that this kind of thought process will get us anywhere if just calling everything fear and insecurity within social issue topics will be the defining label for people with different opinions.

This thread has turned into a bash-fest with neither side listening to the other anymore. Repetition does not make right. I would like to make a comment in reference to the OP.

I am a veteran.

There were gays serving when I was active.

My dad was a veteran.

There were gays serving then, too.

I couldn't care less one way or the other. The civilians give the orders the military takes them. That's how it works, people. If this LTC can't follow the orders given him by lawful authority, he needs to resign his commission. Since that is what he said he would do, problem solved.

Anyone else can't follow orders? Bye! Don't let the door hit you. No one is so important they are irreplaceable.

If the citizens find the orders that an administration gives to be offensive or just plain wrong, that administration will be replaced and new orders will be issued. That's not only the way it works, that's the way it's SUPPOSED to work.

Deal.

Peace,
Montana

Originally posted by Xavialune
I never said you said that all of them rape. But your argument was that separate showers would solve the problem of rapes or at least the coming on of gays to straights.

Even if it disallows one rape that's a success
You do what you can, at the very least you do what you can

Originally posted by Xavialune
You never said private ONE PERSON showers. You conveniently left that fact out until this very moment..you said private showers, that is to say separate showers for the two groups (gays and straights).

Private showers means private showers
Yes that means one person and one person alone

Originally posted by Xavialune
Besides, private showers for EVERYONE would be a little difficult, wouldn't it? So many people in units clamouring to take turns in these things? really? is that realistic?

If we can afford multiple simultaneous wars that we cannot afford and maintaining a global empire then i'm sure we can afford such a project.
Easy as a flip of a switch? Absolutely not
Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it though

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Really. No logic in any of this. Pure fear and insecurity in it all.

I don't think that this kind of thought process will get us anywhere if just calling everything fear and insecurity within social issue topics will be the defining label for people with different opinions.

Actually yes...he's calling it as it is. Fear and insecurity...it must be, because there is no other reason for it. You've not produced any credible reason for any of it. At all.

reply to post by Annee


Thats a crock, gay guys have more fun in the showers then straight do, guarantee that, i worked wit someone we all new was gay but he never came out, and ya he would hav that wierd look and try to act like he wasnt check u out, made everyone uncomfortable and no one would go in the showers when he came in, and for females, they compare bodies they are naturally like that, guys dont give a #

I think the WND is right..sure, some call it a right wing fringenut rag mag, but they have a good point here.
If we start lettin the colored into the military, some may be objectionable.
After all, would you truely trust a colored man in the trenches with you?

Do we need to have sensetivity training towards them colored folks? Some are bound to hold onto their former beliefs about colored people.

Perhaps this Officer needs to be heard about his objection to colored people entering and breaking our military.


oh..whoops, I mean gay people..well, same argument.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
You still sure about your entire post there?

Did I ever deny women are raped in the military?
Now how many of those happened in the shower?

Originally posted by marsoc
reply to post by Annee

 

Thats a crock, gay guys have more fun in the showers then straight do, guarantee that, i worked wit someone we all new was gay but he never came out, and ya he would hav that wierd look and try to act like he wasnt check u out, made everyone uncomfortable and no one would go in the showers when he came in, and for females, they compare bodies they are naturally like that, guys dont give a #

Not all women 'compare bodies'. but with this sentiment it is like youre saying it is ok for women to be looking at each other in the showers, but not men. wow you men are really insecure, arent you?

This guy and guys like him dont represent all gays.