Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Get over your problem with nudity. As a woman I can say that I have been TOUCHED more times against my wishes then I care to count. I was always clothed. I would far rather be naked and have you stare from the other side of a room full of naked people while you are naked then walk past you in a bar, fully clothed, so you can grab my behind and for some reason feel good about yourself for getting away with that. Nudity is not the problem. People that cannot keep their hands to themselves is the problem and I am fairly certain the military can keep a grip on that.

Yes the military can definately keep a grip on that

Here's some reading for you
The Nation: The Plight of Women Soldiers

In 2003, a survey of female veterans found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military. A 2004 study of veterans who were seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving. And a 1995 study of female veterans of the Gulf and earlier wars, found that 90 percent had been sexually harassed.

The military's retrograde attitude towards rape gets even more sinister. More female troops have died in Iraq of non-hostile causes than have been killed in battle, and several of those deaths have either been labeled suicides or been left unexplained by the military. Four of those women had earlier been raped

www.npr.org...

You still sure about your entire post there?

Originally posted by marsoc
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

females, cant serve in combat units, so i never checkd ones out, but now that this happens gays will be right next to u in combat units. BAM

So theres never been a female in combat before? REEEAAALLLYYYY????

Come on now.

Way to prove you missed the point though. Doesnt matter who you are, if you are in a firefight and unable to keep from being distracted by the ass next to you or across from you, you shouldnt be serving. Nothing to do with sexual preference.

And are you of the mindset that all homosexuals cannot control themselves...that they MUST look, feel, touch?

hate to break it to you, but most sexual crimes are carries out by heteros. Meaning heterosexuals can have issues controlling their urges as well. Take a look at the rape statistics in the military. Its sickening. But that is male on female, so no worries, right?

WAIT....I GOT IT!!!

How about we dont let ANYONE serve. Then there will be no worries from any side about what someone might be looking at or thinking! (Not to mention it would put an end to the barbaric tyranny)

reply to post by ModernAcademia


BUT, these are male on female or female on male crimes. Doesnt that kind of take the wind out of the sails of the argument that gays would make it worse?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Xavialune
Just making an analogy...it is the SAME THING. Separate but equal right?

Everyone in private showers is seperate rights????????
How is private showers equal to Racism?????

Originally posted by Xavialune
The issue here is nudity, but youre not getting what I'm saying...PEOPLE LOOK IT IS NORMAL

What can I say, people look at clothed people is the same as looking at naked people and advocating private showers is the same as advocating blacks to have seperate drinking fountains...

Sorry, i'm not currently in the twillight zone so excuse me if I we are not on the same wavelenghts.

Originally posted by Xavialune
If you say you dont look, as anne already pointed out, you're lying. Just because someone looks at you, while youre nude or not, MEANS NOTHING and it shouldnt make you feel threatned. Straight guys are looking at your naked ass too...are you going to be paranoid about that as well? Cause we all know they do it.

Ya Anne pointed it out so it must be true
Excellent!

In my opinion you are trying to change the topic or at least dramatically increase the scope of the topic rendering the topic off-topic.

it meaning nothing to you means it means nothing to you
that's all that it means
The arena is definately relevant, if it's not to you then fine
that's your opinion, I can't change it

It isnt simple opinion...it is fact. People are going to get looked at whether you like it or not. The issue here was being looked at while nude, right? You kept pounding that point, so I am NOT trying to change the subject...I am arguing my point in rebuttal to yours.

The original issue here was whether or not gays should be openly allowed to serve in the military. The issue was an officer resigning because he didnt want to 'indocrinate' his troops. That is because the man felt the training was trying to get everyone to LIKE the gay lifestyle. No one said anyone had to like it, the training purpose is to integrate the gays and try to minimize bigoted opinions towards them, because thats exactly what they are.

you have no evidence gays distract units from their jobs. I know a lot of people in the military, and EVERY SINGLE ONE agrees that when youre in a combat situation, you rely on your unit no matter what their sexual orientation is. That is how it is supposed to work. If you let someone's sexual orientation distract you from doing your duty, YOU DONT BELONG IN THE MILITARY.

It is the same with showers, if youre going to let gay men being in the same shower as you get to you...well thats just ridiculous! They are not interested in someone who isnt the same orientation as them! As I said though they will look, and it is normal. And as I said still, straights are looking at your naked ass...so WHAT is your problem? If you want separate showers for someone of a different sexual orienation than you, who is not interested in someone not of their same sexual orientation anyway (as someone pointed out, there are exceptions..but there are exceptions to everything and that shouldnt ruin it for everyone!), then yes, it is in the same vein as separate drinking fountains. And by that I mean there is NO REASON for it, other than bigotry. None at all.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


So your argument is that women shouldn't be allowed in the military, and gay men should?

Because that has nothing to do with homosexuality, sorry.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


My thoughts? Worldnetdaily is once more being sensationalist and outright lying. This isn't 'pro-homosexual indoctrination', it's a basic human rights issue.

Some people are gay, get over it.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
BUT, these are male on female or female on male crimes. Doesnt that kind of take the wind out of the sails of the argument that gays would make it worse?

I'm not saying that gays will make it worse
Listen aren't gays just people just like heteros are people?

If gays and straight people are equal and both human and both selfish or kindhearted then if straight guys could do it then gay guys could do it.

Furthermore if straight guys can rape straight guys in jail, i'm pretty sure gay guys can rape guys.

And NO, I am not saying that every gay guy has a secret agenda to rape every male in the army
Even if it happens once that's once too much

Am I wrong?
What do you think?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
BUT, these are male on female or female on male crimes. Doesnt that kind of take the wind out of the sails of the argument that gays would make it worse?

I'm not saying that gays will make it worse
Listen aren't gays just people just like heteros are people?

If gays and straight people are equal and both human and both selfish or kindhearted then if straight guys could do it then gay guys could do it.

Furthermore if straight guys can rape straight guys in jail, i'm pretty sure gay guys can rape guys.

And NO, I am not saying that every gay guy has a secret agenda to rape every male in the army
Even if it happens once that's once too much

Am I wrong?
What do you think?

My only point was that everyone is so scared of this, but no one seems to raise an eyebrow about the disgusting rape statistics in the military. Which tells me that people are afraid or bigoted. There can be no other explanation.

Your link only serves to further dig you in a hole... Then you are saying male hetero servicemen are the problem, NOT GAYS?! 30% of women are raped in the military...who do you think rapes them? Their fellow ladies? HA! of course not...it is the straight male. Then they must be the problem...so if straight males cant seem to control themselves perhaps they shouldnt be allowed to serve either?

I mean its the SAME thing as saying those few gays that in the unlikely event try to 'convert' a straight male represent all gays in the military. That is to say, it is the same as saying all those straight men who rape females in the military are representative of all straight males in the military. See what I mean?

Its ridiculous.

Originally posted by Brood
So your argument is that women shouldn't be allowed in the military, and gay men should?

Because that has nothing to do with homosexuality, sorry.

Wow
please go back and read my posts in this thread please
I was merely promoting private showers

Helloooooo

Why is everyone so obssesed with categorizing everyone with only two available sides of the fence?

Once again.......... I am NOT against gays being in the military!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Xavialune
Your link only serves to further dig you in a hole... Then you are saying male hetero servicemen are the problem, NOT GAYS?! 30% of women are raped in the military...who do you think rapes them? Their fellow ladies? HA! of course not...it is the straight male.

Rape is Rape
Are gay men not men?
You know what forget it

Listen, forget me trying to convince you with my point of view
You don't even understand it

You can ignore my posts
thx

Really....can someone explain to me why gay men are more of a threat to straight men than straight men are to women? Please explain why you (in general) feel that gay men would be all over the straight men they serve with now that it is allowable? I just see no logic in this at all.

First off....gay men have been serving since who knows how long and nobody knew! Nobody felt all awkward and threatened! They did their job just like all the straight men who probably behave worse than any gay man would (ie harassing women or cat calling them or being a bunch of horny guys over them). Second, you really think that now it is allowed all of a sudden these gay men will jump the straight men?

This is all so laughable me to me. There is absolutely no logic, no proof to back up the fears I continually see here. Fears. That is what it is - fear that a gay man will somehow find you (in general) hot and want to jump your bones.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
BUT, these are male on female or female on male crimes. Doesnt that kind of take the wind out of the sails of the argument that gays would make it worse?

I'm not saying that gays will make it worse
Listen aren't gays just people just like heteros are people?

If gays and straight people are equal and both human and both selfish or kindhearted then if straight guys could do it then gay guys could do it.

Furthermore if straight guys can rape straight guys in jail, i'm pretty sure gay guys can rape guys.

And NO, I am not saying that every gay guy has a secret agenda to rape every male in the army
Even if it happens once that's once too much

Am I wrong?
What do you think?

So with all these people getting raped, you think having separate showers is going to curb the problem? Males have saparate showers than females in the military...

And female rape in the military is still at 30%..

Its pointless, it isnt going to do anything but protect the bigoted viewpoints of individuals who are scared of anything thats different or against their personal religious-based 'morals'. And before you say anything..any anti-gay sentiment is rooted in religious doctrine, whether you realize it or not.

to all the posters who think
my situation is not normal
and just a one time incident,
maybe u should research a topic
before you speak ur BS.

How to convert a straight man to being gay
www.moopy.org.uk...

How do I turn my straight mate guy
www.dearcupid.org...

How can I turn a straight guy gay
gaylife.about.com...

Gays seducing straight guys
au.answers.yahoo.com...

Top 10 pick-up lines for the gay man to pick up straight men
www.mediatakeout.com...

and there are over 1 million more

so don't say my experience was not normal

edit on 12/28/2010 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by boondock-saint
to all the posters who think
my situation is not normal
and just a one time incident,
maybe u should research a topic
before you speak ur BS.

How to convert a straight man to being gay
www.moopy.org.uk...

How do I turn my straight mate guy
www.dearcupid.org...

How can I turn a straight guy gay
gaylife.about.com...

Gays seducing straight guys
au.answers.yahoo.com...

Top 10 pick-up lines for the gay man to pick up straight men
www.mediatakeout.com...
and there are over

You said it yourself in your story. Your friend wishes to be a woman. That is sexual identity, not homosexuality.

And I can go ahead and post a hundred accounts of gays who wouldnt be caught dead trying to convert a straight person, so really, what are you trying to prove here, other than your prejudice?

reply to post by boondock-saint


Imagine if they claimed they followed a holy book and it allowed them to do such things as impress your sexual orientation on other people?

Wouldn't that just be crazy?

Sorry... all those links are pretty uncredible as far as I can see and there are many more heterosexuals trying to convert the homosexuals into heteros that I can't even pretend having a conversation about this will allow me to remain within T & C.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Really....can someone explain to me why gay men are more of a threat to straight men than straight men are to women?

Why add the "more"?
Even one rape is one rape too much is it not?
Are gay guys not guys?
If straight men can rape men in jail you think gay guys can't rape guys?
Why add the "more"???

If gays rape men only 1% as much as straight men rape women that makes it ok?
Why add the "more"?

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Please explain why you (in general) feel that gay men would be all over the straight men they serve with? I just see no logic in this at all.

Are you speaking in absolutes?
Like I said earlier in this thread, I do not think that every gay guy has a secret agenda to rape men in the military, but even one rape is one too much.

I think what is happening is i'm just being reasonable saying they can be rape and people interpret that as me saying "Every gay guy will rape every man in the military"

reductio ad absurdum?????

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Xavialune
Your link only serves to further dig you in a hole... Then you are saying male hetero servicemen are the problem, NOT GAYS?! 30% of women are raped in the military...who do you think rapes them? Their fellow ladies? HA! of course not...it is the straight male.

Rape is Rape
Are gay men not men?
You know what forget it

Listen, forget me trying to convince you with my point of view
You don't even understand it

You can ignore my posts
thx

No, what you dont understand is that while rape is rape, there is no point trying to differentiate between the sexes when it comes to this. Separating gays from straights isnt going to solve anything...there really isnt anything to solve in the first place.

Just because some men rape women in the military doesnt mean all of them do. Just the same as some gay out there might try to convert a straight doesnt mean that suddenly once theyre allowed to serve openly, all the gays are just going to start coming on to the straight men.

Your point was we should have separate showers because you felt it was the same as allowing straight males and straight females in a unisex shower. Thats ridiculous and not the same at all. My counterpoint was that they are not sexually compatible, and your argument they might try to convert the straight male is unfounded. you obviously dont understand this.

Having separate showers for males and females does not prevent rape. Having separate showers for gays and straights wont prevent anything either, but really statistically there is nothing to prevent other than you being prejudice against that guy in the corner you know is gay, and whom you percieve is looking at your ass and getting a boner, but you wont look to see if he has a woody because you don't peek in the shower? LOL you're going to have to get over this, thats the simple fact.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by bluemirage5
Allowing soldiers to be openly gay in the military is damaging morale of the heterosexual men and women's strong religious beliefs.

When you voluntarily travel vast distances to kill people that are not a threat to your life, which religious values do you get to stand behind again?

That is your perception and your belief, based on your armchair knowledge of what really goes on. This earth is a macrocosm of what happens within us on a biological level. If we indeed have foreign viruses, bacteria, parasites and microbes entering our bodies, killing, infiltrating, mutating and otherwise damaging healthy functions, then it's safe to say we have that equivalent in the physical world. We have anti-bodies within us....we have soldiers in the world. We have free radicals within us....we have radicals within the world. If you take the steps to kill viruses, parasites, cancers, and bacteria within your own body, then you most certainly support war on a physical level, whether you believe it or not. There is no way to be passive with the idea of war and be passive with the health of your own body. The two do not coincide, and this is the biggest flaw in logic among anti-war liberals.

The question is, what does homosexuality represent within the individual microcosm, if creation is not being fostered by the homosexual unions? Furthermore, within the microcosm, if we are turning our anti-bodies into whatever "this" is, I'm of the feeling that it can't be good.

Philosophically speaking, that is.

If even one rape is too much, then males need to stop serving in the military NOW. Because if 30% of females are getting raped in the military, they are far more a problem than gays raping men in the military. If one rape is too much, then no one should serve.

It happens! It sucks, it awful, its inexcusable...

But that doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to serve, and it doesnt mean they should have to be separated, and it doesn't mean that knowing someone in your unit is gay should justifiably distract you from your job.