Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
His entire statement and you take one sentence away and use that as your counter?

Oh i'm sorry, should I have also mentioned that I don't take peeks?

You shouldnt disregard a very valid argument only to deflect by taking one line away. At least not if you hope to be taken seriously.

Originally posted by Xavialune
Don't even suggest that if you've ever been in a shared shower you haven't ever just taken a peek, or if you haven't that it never happens, even between 'straight' guys. It's not an excuse to keep gays out of the military...because even if they arent allowed to serve 'openly' as gays, there are still gays in the military and you'll still be getting your ass looked at from time to time..by gays AND straights.

The truth is - I know girls check out girls more then they would check out guys. Why? They are checking out the competition.

Everybody checks out everybody. But if nudity became the norm - - - it wouldn't be a big deal.

I have no issue with the naked body.

If the naked body became the norm - - - a woman dressed would be far more of a turn on. That's just kind of how it works.

Gays are NOT interested in straight guys - - anymore then a straight guy would be interested in a gay guy.

The ignorance is astounding.

Originally posted by Xavialune
the difference if its a gay man or a straight man?

Ask a woman why she wouldn't want to be in a unisex shower first and there's your answer.

Originally posted by Xavialune
Sometimes we dont want to be stared at, clothed or naked. But it happens, it is a fact of life. People look, it isn't against the law to look, otherwise the majority of men would be in jail...whether you are gay or straight, clothed or naked, it doesnt matter...it's going to happen and that doesnt mean a) that said gay or straight person is going to physically assault you and b) that this is an excuse to restrict gays being open in the military. Period.

Seen another person nude of the opposite sexual orientation is not an everyday fact of life

Secondly it doesn't necessarily have to be a fear of assault
Just as I wouldn't condone unisex showers I wouldn't condone people of different sexual orientation in the same shower

As I said very early in this thread, private showers for everyone, so how does that restrict gays in the military?
Stop trying to categorize me in what you see as only two sides of the fence.

I am very clear in what i'm saying, private showers but also the entire pro-gay rights in the military should not be more important than being against illegal and immoral wars.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Xavialune
Don't even suggest that if you've ever been in a shared shower you haven't ever just taken a peek, or if you haven't that it never happens, even between 'straight' guys. It's not an excuse to keep gays out of the military...because even if they arent allowed to serve 'openly' as gays, there are still gays in the military and you'll still be getting your ass looked at from time to time..by gays AND straights.

The truth is - I know girls check out girls more then they would check out guys. Why? They are checking out the competition.

Everybody checks out everybody. But if nudity became the norm - - - it wouldn't be a big deal.

I have no issue with the naked body.

If the naked body became the norm - - - a woman dressed would be far more of a turn on. That's just kind of how it works.

Gays are NOT interested in straight guys - - anymore then a straight guy would be interested in a gay guy.

The ignorance is astounding.

I agree. I dont know though, they might not be 'interested', but I think they'd still look. Everyone looks, I agree.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Xavialune
the difference if its a gay man or a straight man?

Ask a woman why she wouldn't want to be in a unisex shower first and there's your answer.

Originally posted by Xavialune
Sometimes we dont want to be stared at, clothed or naked. But it happens, it is a fact of life. People look, it isn't against the law to look, otherwise the majority of men would be in jail...whether you are gay or straight, clothed or naked, it doesnt matter...it's going to happen and that doesnt mean a) that said gay or straight person is going to physically assault you and b) that this is an excuse to restrict gays being open in the military. Period.

Seen another person nude of the opposite sexual orientation is not an everyday fact of life

Secondly it doesn't necessarily have to be a fear of assault
Just as I wouldn't condone unisex showers I wouldn't condone people of different sexual orientation in the same shower

As I said very early in this thread, private showers for everyone, so how does that restrict gays in the military?
Stop trying to categorize me in what you see as only two sides of the fence.

I am very clear in what i'm saying, private showers but also the entire pro-gay rights in the military should not be more important than being against illegal and immoral wars.

Seeing people nude being a fact of life is NOT the point I am making. Dont twist My words...I am saying people LOOKING is a fact of life. Get over it!!!

I am not talking about unisex showers here. I agree that if we HAD unisex showers (not mandatory mind you) there would be people who would be ok with it, and people who wouldn't be. Thats a different sex we are talking about..I feel it is different than different sexual orientation. a gay male going into a shower of lesbians wouldnt be the same as a straight male going into a shower of straight females, is it? They'd be sexually compatible, wouldnt they? The gay male is not sexually compatible with the lesbian females, just as gay males are NOT sexually compatible with straight men! so, it isnt the same AT ALL.

So yeah private showers for the people of other sexual orientation, just like separate fountains for the blacks in the 60's right?

Disgusting.

Originally posted by Xavialune
- everyone looks.
I agree. I don't know though, they might not be 'interested', but I think they'd still look. Everyone looks, I agree.

Yes - everyone looks.

If they deny it - they say they don't they are lying.

Originally posted by Annee
Gays are NOT interested in straight guys - - anymore then a straight guy would be interested in a gay guy.
The ignorance is astounding.

no ur ignorance is astounding.
One of my ex best friends came
out of the closet and put the moves
on me quite some yrs ago.
I told him no and asked him
why he was doing this and he told
me that, a gay man taking away
a straight man from a woman is the ultimate.
It makes them feel more like a woman
by becoming the woman. So don't lie
to folks by saying gay men aren't interested
in straight guys. It's a total turn on for
them to try to convert a straight guy.
I know for a fact cuz he tried to convert
me. It did not work and it ruined our
friendship of many years.

Originally posted by Xavialune
Seeing people nude being a fact of life is NOT the point I am making. Dont twist My words...I am saying people LOOKING is a fact of life. Get over it!!!

I am not twisting your words, I am merely higlighting that it's irrelevant
the topic is Nudity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Xavialune
I am not talking about unisex showers here. I agree that if we HAD unisex showers (not mandatory mind you) there would be people who would be ok with it, and people who wouldn't be. Thats a different sex we are talking about..I feel it is different than different sexual orientation. a gay male going into a shower of lesbians wouldnt be the same as a straight male going into a shower of straight females, is it? They'd be sexually compatible, wouldnt they? The gay male is not sexually compatible with the lesbian females, just as gay males are NOT sexually compatible with straight men! so, it isnt the same AT ALL.

You make a valid point here but private showers would make it a non-issue and therefore a perfect solution.

Originally posted by Xavialune
So yeah private showers for the people of other sexual orientation, just like separate fountains for the blacks in the 60's right?

Wow, and I was twisting Your words???

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Annee
Gays are NOT interested in straight guys - - anymore then a straight guy would be interested in a gay guy.
The ignorance is astounding.

no ur ignorance is astounding.
One of my ex best friends came
out of the closet and put the moves
on me quite some yrs ago.

Obviously you want to make it an issue and make me declare there are exceptions.

OK - there are exceptions.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Annee
Gays are NOT interested in straight guys - - anymore then a straight guy would be interested in a gay guy.
The ignorance is astounding.

no ur ignorance is astounding.
One of my ex best friends came
out of the closet and put the moves
on me quite some yrs ago.
I told him no and asked him
why he was doing this and he told
me that, a gay man taking away
a straight man from a woman is the ultimate.
It makes them feel more like a woman
by becoming the woman. So don't lie
to folks by saying gay men aren't interested
in straight guys. It's a total turn on for
them to try to convert a straight guy.
I know for a fact cuz he tried to convert
me. It did not work and it ruined our
friendship of many years.

Your friend has issues with sexual identity. He is not just a homosexual, but wants to be a woman. There is a huge difference.

Some gay men may be interested in straight men. But your statement is an example of someone who has some real issues.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Annee
Gays are NOT interested in straight guys - - anymore then a straight guy would be interested in a gay guy.
The ignorance is astounding.

no ur ignorance is astounding.
One of my ex best friends came
out of the closet and put the moves
on me quite some yrs ago.
I told him no and asked him
why he was doing this and he told
me that, a gay man taking away
a straight man from a woman is the ultimate.
It makes them feel more like a woman
by becoming the woman. So don't lie
to folks by saying gay men aren't interested
in straight guys. It's a total turn on for
them to try to convert a straight guy.
I know for a fact cuz he tried to convert
me. It did not work and it ruined our
friendship of many years.

just like its a turn on and cause for back slapping and high fives when a straight men 'converts' a lesbian? So thats ok too?

No, just because you had some experience with ONE gay male, who sounds like he's got a few issues, is not representative of the entire gay population and should not be used as justification for keeping them out of the military.

If we were to use that kind of argument, females should not be serving either, as I said before. Wouldn't want anyone to be making any moves on anyone, would we?

Just because it's happened to you, doesn't mean it happens to everyone. Just because theres the slim possibility it might happen, doesnt mean take action against it. Women might get raped in the military (and might I add, they actually do), that doesn't mean we prevent them from serving.

reply to post by boondock-saint


So this one time this one thing happened with this one guy? Really? So does that mean that every insane thing every straight man has ever said to me in pursuit of physical delights is representative of all straight males and thus does away with any argument to the contrary as a whole? If so, not only should straight men not be allowed in the military, they should not be allowed to live to see puberty. Luckily, I know the difference between a rare personal experience and an entire population of people.

reply to post by boondock-saint


That settles it. It happened to boondock-saint so it must be the norm.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Perhaps they could call this unit the..

gAy-Team?

Yah?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Xavialune
Seeing people nude being a fact of life is NOT the point I am making. Dont twist My words...I am saying people LOOKING is a fact of life. Get over it!!!

I am not twisting your words, I am merely higlighting that it's irrelevant
the topic is Nudity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Xavialune
I am not talking about unisex showers here. I agree that if we HAD unisex showers (not mandatory mind you) there would be people who would be ok with it, and people who wouldn't be. Thats a different sex we are talking about..I feel it is different than different sexual orientation. a gay male going into a shower of lesbians wouldnt be the same as a straight male going into a shower of straight females, is it? They'd be sexually compatible, wouldnt they? The gay male is not sexually compatible with the lesbian females, just as gay males are NOT sexually compatible with straight men! so, it isnt the same AT ALL.

You make a valid point here but private showers would make it a non-issue and therefore a perfect solution.

Originally posted by Xavialune
So yeah private showers for the people of other sexual orientation, just like separate fountains for the blacks in the 60's right?

Wow, and I was twisting Your words???

Just making an analogy...it is the SAME THING. Separate but equal right? Takes care of the problem though right, even though the 'problem' is ridiculous and unfounded. The issue here is nudity, but youre not getting what I'm saying...PEOPLE LOOK IT IS NORMAL

If you say you dont look, as anne already pointed out, you're lying. Just because someone looks at you, while youre nude or not, MEANS NOTHING and it shouldnt make you feel threatned. Straight guys are looking at your naked ass too...are you going to be paranoid about that as well? Cause we all know they do it.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I am not twisting your words, I am merely higlighting that it's irrelevant
the topic is Nudity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get over your problem with nudity. As a woman I can say that I have been TOUCHED more times against my wishes then I care to count. I was always clothed. I would far rather be naked and have you stare from the other side of a room full of naked people while you are naked then walk past you in a bar, fully clothed, so you can grab my behind and for some reason feel good about yourself for getting away with that. Nudity is not the problem. People that cannot keep their hands to themselves is the problem and I am fairly certain the military can keep a grip on that.

reply to post by boondock-saint


I'll save the details for another time
\
But there is truth in this statement.

I've totally had a gay guy try to convert me. Plenty of gay friends have NOT done this however.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I am not twisting your words, I am merely higlighting that it's irrelevant
the topic is Nudity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get over your problem with nudity. As a woman I can say that I have been TOUCHED more times against my wishes then I care to count. I was always clothed. I would far rather be naked and have you stare from the other side of a room full of naked people while you are naked then walk past you in a bar, fully clothed, so you can grab my behind and for some reason feel good about yourself for getting away with that. Nudity is not the problem. People that cannot keep their hands to themselves is the problem and I am fairly certain the military can keep a grip on that.

very well said. Perhaps we shouldnt allow men to mingle with women at all, you know? I mean It seems to distract men from doing their jobs, right? perhaps we should have separate everything...just to minimize the chance someone might look at someone, or minimize the chance of possibly contracting something from someone. Also perhaps we should segregate all groups from all other groups, to minimize the effect not agreeing with each others lifestyles has...This kind of crap is one of the roots of violence.. Do you see how ridiculous your argument is?

Originally posted by Xavialune
Just making an analogy...it is the SAME THING. Separate but equal right?

Everyone in private showers is seperate rights????????
How is private showers equal to Racism?????

Originally posted by Xavialune
The issue here is nudity, but youre not getting what I'm saying...PEOPLE LOOK IT IS NORMAL

What can I say, people look at clothed people is the same as looking at naked people and advocating private showers is the same as advocating blacks to have seperate drinking fountains...

Sorry, i'm not currently in the twillight zone so excuse me if I we are not on the same wavelenghts.

Originally posted by Xavialune
If you say you dont look, as anne already pointed out, you're lying. Just because someone looks at you, while youre nude or not, MEANS NOTHING and it shouldnt make you feel threatned. Straight guys are looking at your naked ass too...are you going to be paranoid about that as well? Cause we all know they do it.

Ya Anne pointed it out so it must be true
Excellent!

In my opinion you are trying to change the topic or at least dramatically increase the scope of the topic rendering the topic off-topic.

it meaning nothing to you means it means nothing to you
that's all that it means
The arena is definately relevant, if it's not to you then fine
that's your opinion, I can't change it

reply to post by captaintyinknots


females, cant serve in combat units, so i never checkd ones out, but now that this happens gays will be right next to u in combat units. BAM