Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination, page 47

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:04 PM

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Originally posted by SinnthiaBoth of those religions have rules against murder as well as rules against hating or judging anyone but yourself.

Try again?

Um, you cannot be that clueless; you said killing not murder and more people have died in the name of Christianity and Islam than for any other cause throughout time.

Here are some quotes from the religions that have rules against "judging others - lol!

The Bible

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Please understand I do not believe this myself, I don't even believe in god but seems to me the bible (guide to Christianity) seems to find homosexuality a bad thing....

Koran

SURA XXIX: 28-35 [On Lot and Sodom]
28. And (remember) Lot when he said to his people, 'Verily, ye approach an abomination which no one in all the world ever anticipated you in!
29. What! do ye approach men? (or Do you commit sexual acts with men?) and stop folks on the highway? And approach in your assembly sin?' but the answer of his people was only to say, 'Bring us God's torment, if thou art of those who speak the truth!'
30. Said he, 'My Lord! help me against a people who do evil!'

Same here...last line homos are evil...

SURA XXVI: 160-174 [On Lot and Sodom]
160. The people of Lot called the apostles liars;
161 when their brother Lot said to them, 'Do ye not fear?
162. verily, I am to you a faithful apostle;
163. then fear God and obey me.
164 I do not ask you for it any hire; my hire is only with the Lord of the worlds.
165 Do ye approach males of all the world
166 and leave what God your Lord has created for you of your wives? nay, but ye are people who transgress!'
167 They said, 'Surely, if thou dost not desist, O Lot! thou shalt be of those who are expelled!'
168 Said he, 'Verily, I am of those who hate your deed;
169 my Lord! save me and my people from what they do.'
170 And we saved him and his people all together,
171 except an old woman amongst those who lingered.
172 Then we destroyed the others;
173 and we rained down upon them a rain; and evil was the rain of those who were warned.
174 Verily, in that is a sign; but most of them will never be believers.
175 And, verily, thy Lord He is mighty, merciful, compassionate.

Don't go after dudes, I gave you wives....etc etc.... (Short version - don't be gay)

Originally posted by SinnthiaBTW, I know that you military types on ATS seem to really think you are special and better than the rest of us so I just want to remind you that without the rest of us, you have no purpose or paycheck. Just putting that out there.

We are special and few and far between now days...

I served for you, and others like you. I bled for you and I would do it again so that you have the right to say and do as you wish without fear of being taken away in the middle of the night for your actions/words. I have been in places like that and seen it happen - have you?

I realize without a country there would be no Soldiers, also you must realize without Soldiers there would certainly be no country.... It is a circular argument.

Remember this:

“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” - George Orwell

I and the other veterans are those men - and now women as well....

Originally posted by SinnthiaAgain, one religion that says it is ok to kill people because your leader says they are the enemy and also teaches it is moral to judge and hate anyone.

Think I covered that one just fine....again more people died in the name of God and Allah than any other cause. See the anti homo stuff above....

To the person talking about the military and rank....here is why my question matters:

I am a retired field grade officer of 25 years Commanding at that level in war and in peace. A Private, a Sergeant and a civilian would well have differing levels of understanding of tactical, legal and strategic policy. It is so that I can know your frame of reference and not speak above your level of understanding.

Unless we have an equal frame of reference or level of expertise its like me talking Physics with Einstein - I would have no real clue.

Much like you and most of the others who have opined have no frame of reference to opine with any thoughts of consequence about matters related to the military and the possible effects of a change in policy of this magnatude without having served, even then those of differing ranks and specialties would have differing ideas and levels of understanding as well.

I'm sure you have a field of expertise (maybe nursing, cooking, hell whatever) lots of people do, I would not claim to refute your onions based on something I got second hand from an old uncle or a book I read once - it does not and cannot compare to the on the ground experience.

You guys seem angry about something, why are you so mad?

Annee

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:33 PM

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reply to post by Golf66

Get this - - I DO NOT CARE what your PERSONAL BELIEF.

Do you understand the word PERSONAL?

I do not want to hear the word Religion in regards to the military - ever.

You do work for me - as a citizen of the US - - and you can take your whiny prejudices and shove them in the latrine.

There is NO ROOM for ancient ignorant taboos - - - in the government of 2011.

You can say anything you want - - - it does not matter - - - I do not care.

FarArcher

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:40 PM

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Actually, I will maintain my personal level of religion with me wherever I go, and there's not a damned thing you can do about.

You don't like the religion aspect brought up, because if there is a omnipotent, omnipresent Creator as is believed by billions of people on this earth, one that NEVER changes, and says over and again that such a thing is an abomination - it really leaves you nowhere to go.

No justification. No moral standing.

And that's got to be irritating.

How many lives has this behavior already cost?

And coming soon to a theater near you - the combat twinkie - upon getting shot and spraying blood and body fluids - can potentially contaminate several square meters.

BS.

edit on 10-1-2011 by FarArcher because: (no reason given)

Annee

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:42 PM

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Originally posted by FarArcher
Actually, I will maintain my personal level of religion with me wherever I go, and there's not a damned thing you can do about.

Do what ever you want.

But the Military is Government --- it is NOT a church.

I do not want to hear Military and Religion in the same sentence. They are NOT - One in the same.

Annee

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:46 PM

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Originally posted by FarArcher
And coming soon to a theater near you - the combat twinkie - upon getting shot and spraying blood and body fluids - can potentially contaminate several square meters.

With your level of respect - I don't want you in my military.

Grunts like you - - from "days of yesterday" - - are fading fast.

Thankfully.

FarArcher

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:51 PM

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reply to post by Annee

Grunts like me are fading fast?

In your dreams. This expanded level of tolerance you're talking about? It won't continue if history through the millennia is any example.

I don't much give a tinker's damn about whether you think someone like me would be in the military, as long as you're not in the military with me.

You'd start spouting off crap like that in the military, and guys would be lined up to just whip your ass. I saw guys like you, thought their ideas should be heard, and thought that certain 'intolerances' were primitive and unjustifiable, and they would be gone sometimes in less than 12 hours.

You can talk your trash here, but you take into some combat units and you'll very quickly learn what is acceptable.

It's nothing like you think it is.

Wyn Hawks

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:55 PM

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Originally posted by Sinnthia
I know that you military types on ATS seem to really think you are special and better than the rest of us

...its highly unlikely that you've interacted with ALL the military people on ats...

Originally posted by Sinnthia
so I just want to remind you that without the rest of us, you have no purpose or paycheck..

...as long as there is another country to invade (there are still plenty), the military will have a purpose...

...also, you seem to be under the impression that military people's paychecks come from civilian taxpayers... sit down one day and do the math and you'll see that cant possibly be the way it goes...

Annee

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:00 AM

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Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by Annee

Grunts like me are fading fast?

In your dreams. This expanded level of tolerance you're talking about? It won't continue if history through the millennia is any example.

Like I said - - and you prove.

Wyn Hawks

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:10 AM

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Originally posted by Golf66
I served for you, and others like you. I bled for you and I would do it again so that you have the right to say and do as you wish without fear of being taken away in the middle of the night for your actions/words.

...whoa, there!... whoa, oh, oh, oh!...

...you werent drafted, bud... you chose the military... that was 100% your choice... dont be guilt trippin folks for a decision you made of your own free will... if civilians want to respect you for your service, thats their choice to make - not yours to demand...

FarArcher

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:12 AM

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reply to post by Annee

I don't think I've ever seen anyone who is so dense that they don't understand the operating principle here. It's likely my fault, so I'll see if I can introduce you to another principle that combat - COMBAT - units operate under.

It's the principle of "Remedy."

In combat, you'll have some differences with other fellow soldiers from time to time, and fistfights are a very common occurrence, even when it's over matters of no consequence.

Remedy.

If in a combat unit you have a junior officer who is a complete, tactical dud, then that cannot be tolerated as his completely dangerous grasp of tactical competence will get men unnecessarily killed.

No soldier minds fighting, but he insists on fighting smart. Being able to rely on others NOT to create more problems than they are worth.

IF they create more problems than they're worth, they are strongly "encouraged" to get the hell out of the unit at the earliest possible moment.

This would include homicidal maniacs, bullies, insubordinate contrary troublemakers, suicidal medal hunters, unknowing - dangerous junior officers and even NCO's, and that would include others such as falls under this topic.

They're given a chance to get out of the unit on their own two feet.

In a combat unit, IN a combat zone, it's a real opportunity that should be taken. Oddly, these aberrant personalities have a very, very high casualty ratio. Damn near 100%.

Combat units. In combat.

That's all I've been talking about here on this thread since the beginning. I don't give a full wash tub of rat **** if the entire data processing corps, including mechanics consists of nothing but twinkies. Not much chance of creating a known threat to others in a combat unit.

Remedy.

It's real. It exists.

One way or another.

Starting to catch on?

orangetom1999

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:18 AM

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Golf 66,

There is a very severe and serious problem with this statement of yours...

Um, you cannot be that clueless; you said killing not murder and more people have died in the name of Christianity and Islam than for any other cause throughout time.

This pattern from ancient times has been replaced with Atheist governments today ...through wise men/intelligentsia...gnostic wise men religions of human greatness, human reasoning.

The Godless times of today have bread the governments based on the godless communist manifesto. These governments and those after this pattern have killed peoples at a faster rate in the last 100 plus years than in times past. The godless nations have turned killing into a fine art...much better and faster than in Ancient times.

How many did the Soviets kill before they stabilized Russia?? How about after Russia was stabilized..in the various purges?? How many did the Communist Chinese kill?? Of their own peoples??

Somehow in most of what passes for public education now days ..this concept and understanding is totally left out in lieu of the time warp techniques used by you and also by Annee and others.

Godless men of intelligence are the new paradigm of todays killing machines. But we are never to be allowed to think this far in lieu of the standard M1A rhetoric of todays non education...in lieu of the time warp techniques so popular.

While I am thinking about it..how many has the great United Nations prevented from being killed..for World Peace?? Wow!! The League of Nations. Both Gnostic wise men clubs.

Annee,

There is NO ROOM for ancient ignorant taboos - - - in the government of 2011.

To those who know some history...what you state above is exactly the reason and logic of the Communists as they molded the new man for the party. A godless government with the reason and logic of men. And this history turned into hell on earth. And this is what many of these governments of logic and reason did..I agree with Golf 66 in this.

I bled for you and I would do it again so that you have the right to say and do as you wish without fear of being taken away in the middle of the night for your actions/words. I have been in places like that and seen it happen - have you?

Idealism is just what the Communists functioned upon. No experience but lots of classroom theory and rhetoric.
And this template is overtaking this government of ours. Lots of theories but no experience.

I've worked with engineers with mostly classroom theory and ideas. You have to watch some of them closely..they will get you hurt or killed if you dont yourself have a clue. Some of them are very good and have good instincts and experience to boot. I would rather follow experience and practical knowledge before classroom theory...and particularly when my backside is on the line.
And especially overly emotional classroom theory and entitlement thinking. Drama Queens..not for me thanks.

Your Drama levels are showing here Annee..and with this ...your religion. No problem with me..I make note of this to people who can see beyond the speeches. It comes across like many of our politicians today.

But the Military is Government --- it is NOT a church.

I do not want to hear Military and Religion in the same sentence. They are NOT - One in the same.

Public education standards at work here Annee. Gnostic wise men thinking.

With your level of respect - I don't want you in my military.

Grunts like you - - from "days of yesterday" - - are fading fast

It is not your military or mine. And you would not want people like that until your back is to the wall and then you look for others to take the RISK out of life for you...by entitlement...after browbeating them and putting them at RISK..just as do our politicians and leaders in replacing their ability to manage their daily RISKS with social programs.

Thanks,
Orangetom

edit on 11-1-2011 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)

Wyn Hawks

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by Golf66

You do work for me - as a citizen of the US

...no, mam... thats just a romantic notion sold to citizens to garner support for the military... the military does not work for the citizens... the military works for the legal entity known as the usofa... big difference...

FarArcher

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:23 AM
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That's a fact. I never worked for any citizen.

I never fought for citizens. Or the flag, nor apple pie, and certainly not for Congress.

I fought for my brother soldiers who were right there with me.

Now THAT, I took very seriously.

Golf66

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by AnneeGet this - - I DO NOT CARE what your PERSONAL BELIEF.

Do you understand the word PERSONAL?

I do not want to hear the word Religion in regards to the military - ever.

You do work for me - as a citizen of the US - - and you can take your whiny prejudices and shove them in the latrine.

There is NO ROOM for ancient ignorant taboos - - - in the government of 2011.

You can say anything you want - - - it does not matter - - - I do not care.

Yes, it is clear to me that belief is only important to you when it is yours or happens to support what you personally believe.

I on the other hand as your former employee (I am retired, but I do sacrifice a steak dinner to the gods of food for my 3.5k retirement check that you help pay.) who does not even believe in god was willing to die so that those who do can practice as they choose IAW the Bill of Rights.

I am; however, not a hypocrite - as you appear to be.

Just be careful because someday what you believe may become an issue that is marginalized and legislated against. If I am alive when that day comes I would again bleed and be willing to die to protect your rights as well.

You are welcome....

Sinnthia

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by Golf66

I said both murder and kill. You caught that right? Now ask me why. You can go on and on with your out of context quotes from holy books that justify killing all day long. When you get around to adding the context and understand them, then you might be an interesting chat to have. Both books have clear rules against killing. If you think for a second you are going to convince me that the US military only kills people justified by Jesus, you are going to have to back that up.
edit on 11-1-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)

Sinnthia

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
You don't like the religion aspect brought up, because if there is a omnipotent, omnipresent Creator as is believed by billions of people on this earth, one that NEVER changes, and says over and again that such a thing is an abomination - it really leaves you nowhere to go.

That would be the same god that explicitly states that humans are supposed to be kind to each other and let god decide what is and is not an abomination? Is that the god you are referring to? So you think you know better than him? You think you can defy him and hate on his creations even after he told you it is not your place? I would really like to see how that works out for you.

Sinnthia

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...its highly unlikely that you've interacted with ALL the military people on ats...

I have actually spelled out several time to these few "special" military types that I truly hope they represent a quaint few and not all. See the thread about the Marine with the flag pole. The premise that the man should not have to honor his contract and can break rules just because he is a marine has spilled on with some of these individuals. Or take a look at this.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Golf66
I served for you, and others like you. I bled for you and I would do it again so that you have the right to say and do as you wish without fear of being taken away in the middle of the night for your actions/words.

...whoa, there!... whoa, oh, oh, oh!...

...you werent drafted, bud... you chose the military... that was 100% your choice... dont be guilt trippin folks for a decision you made of your own free will... if civilians want to respect you for your service, thats their choice to make - not yours to demand...

See, there are a few floating around here on ATS that feel they are something "different" than most military folks I come across.

...as long as there is another country to invade (there are still plenty), the military will have a purpose...

That is just not true. Without a homeland and populace, you have no home state from which to invade. Without a tax base, you have no military funding. Get that? There are no bank guards that work for free to protect empty vaults.

...also, you seem to be under the impression that military people's paychecks come from civilian taxpayers... sit down one day and do the math and you'll see that cant possibly be the way it goes...

No, I am sure the military is completely self funded by bake sales.
edit on 11-1-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-1-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)

Golf66

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Golf66
I served for you, and others like you. I bled for you and I would do it again so that you have the right to say and do as you wish without fear of being taken away in the middle of the night for your actions/words.

...whoa, there!... whoa, oh, oh, oh!...

...you werent drafted, bud... you chose the military... that was 100% your choice... dont be guilt trippin folks for a decision you made of your own free will... if civilians want to respect you for your service, thats their choice to make - not yours to demand...

Sorry if you felt this was a demand for appreciation or respect - I made my decision, I'd do it again.

I was only making a statement countering the "you work for me" mentality.

As for a "guit trip"; I cannot make people feel guilt, respect, adulation, contempt, hate or anything else for that matter. People have the right to choose their own beliefs in the US and that was sort of my point in this thread,

Just seems Annie and some others think thier beliefes are ok, while those of others are not.

I have lived and worked in places where people like the military and places where they don't. It affects my desire to serve very little - it would be hypocritical to do otherwise.

27jd

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
You don't like the religion aspect brought up, because if there is a omnipotent, omnipresent Creator as is believed by billions of people on this earth, one that NEVER changes, and says over and again that such a thing is an abomination - it really leaves you nowhere to go.

No justification. No moral standing.

And that's got to be irritating.

How many lives has this behavior already cost?

And coming soon to a theater near you - the combat twinkie - upon getting shot and spraying blood and body fluids - can potentially contaminate several square meters.

BS.

Wow. You need a mental eval. So, your god tells you "over and over" that such a thing is an abomination? Or are you taking somebody else's word on it? And why did your omnipotent god create such an abomination? Just to demand that you hate it?

What a bigot, using slurs like a child. And ignoring facts, that straights can and do carry HIV, and that HIV dies on contact with oxygen. Honestly, folks with this mindset are not fit for duty, and may even be mentally ill, IMO. I thought education was one of the requirements.
edit on 11-1-2011 by 27jd because: (no reason given)

Annee

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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Don't you find it interesting that a couple posters object to not being accepted as they are?