It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Officer won't sign order for troop pro-homosexual indoctrination

page: 26
21
<< 23  24  25    27  28  29 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sparky63
To Synnthia & Caycefan:

Too bad you two can't get together for a beer summit and work out your differences. I would even supply the beer and the dictionary of your choice.
In the meantime what do you think about the topic of an officer refusing to order his troops to undergo additional training in light of the new policy?

Personally, I think this officer is making a brave decision. If he doubts the morality or legality of the order, he has an obligation to disobey it. Of course he must be willing to face the consequences of his actions.

If more soldiers questioned the orders they receive and refused to carry out those they felt were morally objectionable, we would have a lot less atrocities being carried out in the name of nationalism.
edit on 12/29/2010 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)


A beer summit would be nice!

I have already expressed my opinion that I have no problems with gays in the military and feel like there should have never been a don't ask don't tell policy. However I feel I'm probably not as passionate about it as someone that might be in the military.

Someone using poor grammar and poor word choices raised the idea that if everyone was gay that we would be a suicidal species (at least that was how I took it), things just got more ugly from there!




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by CayceFan
 


You forgot the part where it was proven a fallacy to human historical knowledge and a certain side continued to go on about the idea as if it still had merit at all.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by CayceFan

Originally posted by Brood


I'm speaking for you as well.

let me prove it:

Can you tell me what the amplification range of a 2SA silicon transistor with a base emitter junction of 5 amps and a beta gain of 10 is?

Now, assuming you don't know...you could research it or you can simply blow it off and be selectively ignorant.


Make a thread about it. If I join and begin arguing with you about it as if I know what I'm talking about and ignore anything you have to say about it, then you might have something to go on.



Busted!!!!! Caught ya being selective huh!!!!


Wouldn't it just make me look foolish if I had showed interest in the topic for say, 7 or 8 pages then just started being selective like that? It would almost be like some sort of social retardation or something. Who knows, though, words don't have finite terms or anything according to some people so how can you justify anything to them?
edit on 29-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)


"Wouldn't it" - Well not anymore foolish then claiming to not be selectively ignorant on one post only to prove that you are on the next.


Sorry. I'm done playing for now. Enjoy!



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Brood
reply to post by CayceFan
 


You forgot the part where it was proven a fallacy to human historical knowledge and a certain side continued to go on about the idea as if it still had merit at all.


I think you mean both sides right? I mean this is your post I'm replying to right? Two to tango ring a bell?
edit on 29-12-2010 by CayceFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:55 PM
link   
reply to post by CayceFan
 


I have to wonder if I were expressing my opinion on electronics and in that I used "capacitor" to mean something that resists a charge. Would you not want to point out that since I have no clue what I am talking about, my opinion based on that "selective ignorance" may be ill formed at best? Be honest with yourself about it. Then go find a woman who cannot have babies and call her a genetic retard. Tell her it is ok, you just meant it to say that being gay is suicidal for the species. Let me know how it all turns out.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by CayceFan
 


I have to wonder if I were expressing my opinion on electronics and in that I used "capacitor" to mean something that resists a charge. Would you not want to point out that since I have no clue what I am talking about, my opinion based on that "selective ignorance" may be ill formed at best? Be honest with yourself about it. Then go find a woman who cannot have babies and call her a genetic retard. Tell her it is ok, you just meant it to say that being gay is suicidal for the species. Let me know how it all turns out.


You don't really have a point here do you?

First I didn't say those things the other poster did.

Second, don't try to spin from the fact that you were just proven to have selective ignorance just like I claimed that we all have to which you replied "speak for yourself"



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:58 PM
link   
Excuse me for going off the subject here.
Yes, gays are human beings. Yes, they deserve to have the same rights as heterosexual males. But…Have any of you thought about what is next in the list… Transsexuals are people too! They deserve to have rights just like heterosexual and homosexuals.
My question is when does it stop? At some point we have to say enough is enough! We have to set some standards that have to be followed however wrong it might seem to other people. If not, we’re willfully opening the door to Pandora ’s Box!

edit on 29-12-2010 by Beowolfs because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by CayceFan
 


I have to wonder if I were expressing my opinion on electronics and in that I used "capacitor" to mean something that resists a charge. Would you not want to point out that since I have no clue what I am talking about, my opinion based on that "selective ignorance" may be ill formed at best? Be honest with yourself about it. Then go find a woman who cannot have babies and call her a genetic retard. Tell her it is ok, you just meant it to say that being gay is suicidal for the species. Let me know how it all turns out.


Don't forget to tell her that the people on the conspiracy forum called you crazy for it.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by Sparky63
 


How does it sound when you hear it?
'I am a good Christian man. I volunteer to engage in possibly life taking activities at the orders of my supperiors thus nullifying any adherence to the ten commandments as stated in my bible. Yes, I reject the ten commandments and will take a life.
I am a good Christian man. I cannot then in all good conscience teach my men to NOT think about where each other sticks there doodle and just treat each other like people.'

I dunno. Just doesn't play as convincing to me. Its not his convictions but his reasoning.



p.s. No that is not supposed to be an actual quote for anyone asking me to cite my source.
edit on 29-12-2010 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)


Your logic is flawless.

However, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because this man once made one decision that is morally wrong for someone professing to be a Christian, does not mean that he must follow suit and make another one. I don't know how he felt about his prior decision to serve in the military. For all I know he began to question his role in the military and is using this issue to walk away from it all.
I do know that people change, and if he is willing to face the consequences of disobedience I cannot fault him.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Beowolfs
Excuse me for going off the subject here.
Yes, gays are human beings. Yes, they deserve to have the same rights as heterosexual males. But…Have any of you thought about what is next in the list… Transsexuals are people too! They deserve to have rights just like heterosexual and homosexuals.


Yes they are. And yes they do. I know the American Military is very proud of putting their magnifying glass in the troops' trousers, but as a country we all need to grow the hell up at some point. I don't see how it could possibly be constructive to society to uphold labels and point your finger at everyone who is different and call them a "freak". Sorry, that ship will not sail with me.


My question is when does it stop? At some point we have to say enough is enough! We have to set some standards that have to be followed however wrong it might seem to other people. If not, we’re willfully opening the door to Pandora ’s Box!


Oh, gotcha. Militant totalitarianism. Guess some people still don't know how to mind their own damn business like Jesus told them to 2000 years ago. Hard social concepts, I'm sure. Being heterosexual must be so difficult...



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sparky63

If more soldiers questioned the orders they receive and refused to carry out those they felt were morally objectionable, we would have a lot less atrocities being carried out in the name of nationalism.


If all understood the right of every citizen to defend their country.

We wouldn't be having this discussion.

----------------

Of course we all know who Staff Sgt. Eric Alva is - - right?

After months of bellicose chest-pounding from the White House about weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, and Iraqi freedom, the invasion of Baghdad was under way, and Eric's Marine battalion was part of the first wave.

The next day Staff Sgt. Eric Alva would step on a land mine that would shatter his right arm, rip his leg from his body, and make him the first casualty of the Iraq War.

Eric is a gay man.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by CayceFan
You don't really have a point here do you?


Yes, I do. It is on thing to not know something. It is quite another to have a fully formed opinion about those things you know nothing of. I believe the difference between myself, brood, and you. Is yes, we are all selectively ignorant - only you feel that excuses your ignorant opinions while we have no opinions about things we are so ignorant of. Why are you not getting the vast difference?


First I didn't say those things the other poster did.


Well, if my opinion of something is based on a capictor actually being a resistor, my opinion is not going to be very valid. If I state that my opinion is valid because we are all ignorant, as you tried to do, I will just be lying and still wrong. Get it?

See cuz, that is not what that word means. It throws off the entire opinion when you base it on something you DO NOT KNOW.


Second, don't try to spin from the fact that you were just proven to have selective ignorance just like I claimed that we all have to which you replied "speak for yourself"


LMAO!

Seriously. Get a grip. I did not say "speak for yourself," Brood did. It was not me you thought you just caught, it was Brood.

I fink sum one is getting sweepy time nite nite.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sparky63
Your logic is flawless.

However, two wrongs do not make a right. Just because this man once made one decision that is morally wrong for someone professing to be a Christian, does not mean that he must follow suit and make another one. I don't know how he felt about his prior decision to serve in the military. For all I know he began to question his role in the military and is using this issue to walk away from it all.
I do know that people change, and if he is willing to face the consequences of disobedience I cannot fault him.


Shucks, thanks for the flawless but unfortunately my logic was not very popular the first time I offered it up in this thread either so be careful who you compliment.


OK, fair point but then look at it this way. He still chooses to remain in the capacity of taking lives. He has refused to reject that part of his life yet wants to stand behind the bible on this issue? It really matters not how he used to feel about taking lives as long as he is still willing to do it.

I am not saying that because he takes lives, he should just accept all sins. I am saying that if his fear of sin prevents him from teaching tolerance, it should prevent him from taking lives as well. Seems completely dishonest to me to protest only one of the two based on a book that seems pretty clear about both.

Get what I am saying?
edit on 29-12-2010 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:11 PM
link   
Stupid - Ignorant - Ridiculous - and a few other descriptives - - is what my opinion is of not allowing every able bodies citizen to defend their country.

Screw your - prejudices - fears - religious ideologies - and childish mentality.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by CayceFan
You don't really have a point here do you?


Yes, I do. It is on thing to not know something. It is quite another to have a fully formed opinion about those things you know nothing of. I believe the difference between myself, brood, and you. Is yes, we are all selectively ignorant - only you feel that excuses your ignorant opinions while we have no opinions about things we are so ignorant of. Why are you not getting the vast difference?


First I didn't say those things the other poster did.


Well, if my opinion of something is based on a capictor actually being a resistor, my opinion is not going to be very valid. If I state that my opinion is valid because we are all ignorant, as you tried to do, I will just be lying and still wrong. Get it?

See cuz, that is not what that word means. It throws off the entire opinion when you base it on something you DO NOT KNOW.


Second, don't try to spin from the fact that you were just proven to have selective ignorance just like I claimed that we all have to which you replied "speak for yourself"


LMAO!

Seriously. Get a grip. I did not say "speak for yourself," Brood did. It was not me you thought you just caught, it was Brood.

I fink sum one is getting sweepy time nite nite.



Brood did huh? Ok...well I caught you both being selectively ignorant....even better sense my opinion is that we all are! Any way the whole point was that someone, maybe you, used the term so I was just proving that we all are selectively ignorant period.

Again your hung up one the posters word instead of the subject.

My opinion is still my opinion regardless of what word you use.Get it! Gay people are not the norm.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:26 PM
link   
Everything in nature is natural.

If you believe in a creator god (and I don't), then that individual created all living beings, including every bacteria and slime all the way from the gutter to the palace or the White House. Homosexuality exists throughout species. Homosexuals can procreate, and do procreate. In nature there are even examples of parthenogenesis, or self-replication without sexual contact.

To mangle a phrase from Shakespeare, "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philisophy."

Stigmatizing gays just adds a security risk and a possible avenue of blackmail to the military and diplomatic equation. The officer who refused the order regarding the military's new policy toward gays, if it should become finalized, will undoubtedly be disciplined.
edit on 29-12-2010 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by CayceFan

Brood did huh? Ok...well I caught you both being selectively ignorant....even better sense my opinion is that we all are!


GET SOME REST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, no you never "caught me." You are just remembering that one incident with Brood and applying it to us both. Just like this argument. I also never said that we are not selectively ignorant so had you "caught" me, what would you be proving? I admit we are all selectively ignorant. I never argued that point and you never busted me doing it myself. GO TO BED.

The only thing I said on the issue at all is that admitting you are ignorant, does not make words mean new things. Admitting you are ignorant, does not excuse saying ignorant things. We know you are ignorant but have an opinion. Good to see that you see that too. As for the rest of this, YOU SEEM VERY VERY VERY CONFUSED. GO LAY DOWN.


Any way the whole point was that someone, maybe you, used the term so I was just proving that we all are selectively ignorant period.


No, it wasn't me. I have no clue what you think you are proving to me. What you are proving is that you completely lost track of the conversation and are just swatting at anything you think you can reach. Not only is that a terrible way to try and express yourself, in a place where you can scroll around and check on things, it is really kind of sad.



Again your hung up one the posters word instead of the subject.


Actually, you are attacking me over two conversations you had with someone else. I have no clue what you are talking about anymore.


My opinion is still my opinion regardless of what word you use.Get it! Gay people are not the norm.


That is great. Now let your son defend himself for saying people that do not have children are genetic retards. I think we all got your view by now. Let someone else speak for themself. You need a break.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:28 PM
link   
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


So the idea of "Obeying orders" and "following rules" only applies to those who serve beneath him? What, he doesn't have to obey the rules issued by those above him?

This man doesn't belong in the military.

Funny how the same people screaming about others obeying issued commands are suddenly the ones wimping out and refusing to obey.

But we all know that these right-wing nuts are all hypocrites already don't we? Nothing new.

Oh, and it won't damage the military.
As has been seen, most of those serving are perfectly fine with diverse sexuality and don't live in the dark ages their leadership structure does. Just because a bunch of senior officers are retards who can't deal with change, doesn't mean their troops are the same.

The military will do just fine, just like every other modern military. It's just a shame America (land of the free and home of the brave? Really?) took so long to catch up with the 21st century.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:30 PM
link   
What would Jesus do?

Second line.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 04:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sinnthia

What would Jesus do?

Second line.


The REAL Jesus?

Or the one that's been invented and cultivated by man under the guise of religion - - for control by hate and prejudice?



new topics

top topics



 
21
<< 23  24  25    27  28  29 >>

log in

join