Jones "Peer - Reviewed" Scientific Journal Found Credible!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
What an absolute HORROR this thing is, and that it's still going on over there in Iraq and Afghanistan... oh God. What are we looking at, a MILLION + innocents deaths as a result of this abomination

It's the Holocaust of the 21st century, no doubt about it.

We're taught history so we won't repeat the same mistakes. Well history must truly repeat itself for good reason. You bring up 1930's Germany today and no one even wants to hear about it, they scoff at the idea and associate it with some cliche at this point, like the comparison is old news and doesn't even value consideration.

We might as well scrub 1930's Germany and WW2 from American textbooks because there's no point in Americans learning about that, since we're apparently immune. Or let me put it this way: the people who haven't already realized that the US has taken the place of 1930's Germany are never going to realize it, and there was no point them ever learning about any of it in the first place. They might as well be experiencing it in Germany for themselves for the first time. You really can't fix stupid, nor can you revive the 1,000,000+ dead innocents.

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by Soloist
And then promptly lost his job at BYU in 2006 due to all this nonsense.

So did Kevin Ryan and many others for not conforming to the "rule". So what? he gets fired so that means he is wrong? No wonder both parties can't come to a consensus with logic like that. Stop your bantering already, put up or shut up

Wow, you guys are having a REAL hard time with this stuff, huh?

Please go back and re-read that post in context, then feel free to add to the conversation once you understand. Thank you.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Originally posted by OptimistPrime
reply to post by okbmd

 

What would a sculptor be doing with nano-thermite? How would a sculptor have access to military grade thermite?
What independent lab would you like to see test these samples? Would these independent labs be investigated to make sure there was absolutely no connection to any parties accused of foul play in 9/11?

edit on 28-12-2010 by OptimistPrime because: none

The sculptor in question was creating a commemorative work for 9/11. He "accidentally" received it. He did NOT have thermite -- he gave out samples to others who requested something to test on.

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by bsbray11
Please find a quote of mine where I said they aren't independent because I don't agree with what they say and post it here.

You said they weren't independent because they were "conspiracy theorists" and went on a rant about how Steven Jones has some agenda to make money from AE911, which was when I asked if you could prove he's even make a cent from that organization.

Ahh, so no luck on the quote I take it. Please stop posting things I said that I did not say. Thank you.

I don't need a quote to know what you said. Why don't you repeat yourself why Jones et al aren't independent? It was because.... why aren't they independent again? That bit about them being "biased" and something about AE911's money?

If you really need a quote to refresh your own memory as to what you were saying, so we can catch up to the same level here... :

And we already know that Jones believed fully that them*te was what he thought brought down the towers, he said so in public years earlier. He has a stake in the conspiracy and do A&E who get their money it as well.

Now I'll admit I couldn't make total sense of this because of the grammar or some typo or something, but this was in response to me asking why Jones wasn't "independent" in your view before.

You're trying to say Jones et al aren't independent scientists because:

1) Jones suspected thermite was used before he did his study, which btw is why he did it in the first place (and thus my question -- do you consider only purely accidental discoveries legitimate? The rest of the scientific community does not harbor that limitation).

2) Something about "He has a stake in the conspiracy and do A&E who get their money it as well."


So... according to you, Jones and his colleagues aren't independent scientists because (a) he already believed there was thermite in the buildings, so obviously he was a "conspiracy theorist" and thus automatically stupid and can't be trusted, and (b) he's apparently after AE911's money.

Now that is what I've gathered from all your posts, and what I'm asking you to elaborate on.

You said in your last post you didn't know how to make it any simpler. Well now I am telling you how you could make this simpler. I want to know what money you think Jones is making from AE911, or Niels Harrit or any of the other guys, and I want you to tell me who in the HELL rejects ANY science just because the scientist involved had suspicions before doing the study to confirm it. If that wasn't acceptable, then the only alternative is everything being discovered by pure blind dumb luck! Which is ridiculous and I don't understand why that doesn't seem to be able to sink into your head, that this is exactly what you are implying.

And again I ask, are you trying to suggest any science other than the purely accidental is illegitimate?

WUT? I'm not suggesting anything, I say what I mean, sorry if it's escaping you.

HAHA WUT? Okay let me try to break it down for you.

1) You have a problem with the fact that Jones suspected thermite was used before he did his study.

2) ...... okay? why???

How is this "biased" again? Why do you think he suspected it in the first place smart guy? Is he making money by pushing this theory and losing his tenure or something?

This is where you would have to say, "There's a problem with suspecting something and then doing the study to confirm it!" And then that's when you get the response I gave you above, that that doesn't make a damned bit of sense.

Once again read the above post. Jones is NOT an independent in this matter, he staked his reputation, and ruined it actually making biased claims before any "tests" on any "samples" were ever done.

"Biased" because.... lmao.

"Biased" because he was right about his suspicions, confirmed it, and you can't handle that.


I suppose the only acceptable method of proving thermite was there really would be by accidentally discovering it, because apparently if you see something that leads you to believe it was there beforehand, you aren't allowed to look because you're then automatically "biased" according to "Soloist."

reply to post by FlySolo


My message differs only slightly, in as much as I'm willing to give up condemnation provided truth informs, and re-animates power, truth and Civility. In other words I would still like to hold out an olive branch, and exclaim that the "elite" even STILL, if not for very much longer, at all, can save themselves and secure their salvation by turning, and being healed by the truth, no matter how painful or transformative, and start acting like authentic servants of the people, instead of dominators and abusers.
Now I don't think that's about to happen mind you, but that's the only way I am able to "frame" the whole damn mess, without becoming some variation, in seething hatred, of the very thing I oppose. What else are we to do, but first let them have it and speak truth to power, and to all spheres of influence the whole world over, while at the same time recognizing that the US Gov't isn't about to allow a re-investigation of the 9/11 event?
It will become self evident however, in the fullness of time and history, can't not. Therefore history itself and our rising Civil conscious awareness, and indignation, is like an approaching Tsnami for these security grid enforcers, and creators of terror, death and destruction, so I'm here to say, perhaps a minute BEFORE it hits, to these lowlifes - GET OUT OF THE WAY! and save yourself, if at all possible, but either way, be on notice that the whole world is becoming aware and cognizent of what you've been up to, so you'd better leave or bail from the ship while you still have the chance, or this wave just might crash upon your shore in real time, and oh what a fall your houses will have!

That's power.

I am here to say that you dear reader, and future Congressman, Senator, POTUS even, YOU have the power, and we can wield this thing for the sake of what is infinitely better, while at the same time recognizing that for things to change, we ourselves cannot become a lynch mob of seething barbarians.

Virtue is power restrained. The USA lost it's indespensible virtue during Donald Rumsfeld's "Shock and Awe", so it's up to the next generation, to restore it, but somewhere down the line, this 9/11 thing must be openly admitted and owned up to. There is no other way, but THROUGH it, which will serve the cause of justice, not only to the living, but also to those who perished and were murdered on that day, and in the wake of the "catastrophic and catalyzing event" known in infamy as 9/11.

The buildings were blown up, they did not "collapse" as per the official story - this is self evident.

So I call the truth about 9/11 REAL historical blowback, of the transformative and fruitful variety, however painful the realization.

We simply must however, become something other than mere haters, in order for it to function in that manner, where virtue is power restrained, willingly, for the sake of all people and all generations, from generation to generation, and from age to age.

Our victory in the fullness of time and history, based on simple science, is already realized, so the only question then becomes - what now?

You just won't find me running back in time with an axe raised over my head, in search of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush and company. I cannot bring myself to become that, or to allow my own heart to be corrupted by this truth also, in the same way it does for those would try to cover it up, or defend the indefensible, don't you see?

reply to post by Soloist

Jones proving himself to you or any other truster is like Columbus sailing back with a native American in full headdress to present to the flat-earthers. The evidence is staring you in the face yet you refuse to accept it. As for redefining independent, no I did not, just applied the definition you so generously gave earlier in the thread. You are the one that is redefining a word, and that word is ignorance. It must be bliss, huh?

reply to post by bsbray11


nice

Originally posted by OptimistPrime
reply to post by Soloist

 

Jones proving himself to you or any other truster is like Columbus sailing back with a native American in full headdress to present to the flat-earthers. The evidence is staring you in the face yet you refuse to accept it. As for redefining independent, no I did not, just applied the definition you so generously gave earlier in the thread. You are the one that is redefining a word, and that word is ignorance. It must be bliss, huh?

Sorry you couldn't understand. I tried, but I guess some people just can't be reached.

reply to post by Soloist


It is much easier for you to reply to me with troll-speak then it is for you to answer Bsray's question, correct? I suppose your omnipotence transcends science and logic. Thank you for taking the time to enlighten me, despite that I am feeling dumber for trying to "understand" your mighty wisdom.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I don't need a quote to know what you said.

So are now going to retract your claim?

And we already know that Jones believed fully that them*te was what he thought brought down the towers, he said so in public years earlier. He has a stake in the conspiracy as do A&E who get their money from it as well.

Now I'll admit I couldn't make total sense of this because of the grammar or some typo or something, but this was in response to me asking why Jones wasn't "independent" in your view before.

Oops, my bad, didn't review it well enough, but there ya go, the corrections are in bold.

You're trying to say Jones et al aren't independent scientists because:

1) Jones suspected thermite was used before he did his study, which btw is why he did it in the first place (and thus my question -- do you consider only purely accidental discoveries legitimate? The rest of the scientific community does not harbor that limitation).

Partially, you are getting closer here. He was fully committed to the truth movement and his claims at that point, to such an extreme he ruined his own career.

If we are to believe these claims, it should be handled by a neutral party of independent scientists. Had verifiable samples been sent to such a lab instead of himself attempting to do the work, then it's quite possible the results would carry quite a bit more weight in the non-truther community.

As it stands now, it does not. Like it or not that's the way it is.

So... according to you, Jones and his colleagues aren't independent scientists because (a) he already believed there was thermite in the buildings, so obviously he was a "conspiracy theorist" and thus automatically stupid and can't be trusted, and (b) he's apparently after AE911's money.

You added the stupid part, but yes those of us who don't buy into the truther mantra do not trust him or his findings.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Well said again and I agree whole heartedly . However, I admit I still find myself sucked into this vortex of madness blaming those who have not opened their eyes or refuse to. I agree we must push through this and always keep it in the forefront of our minds. We must force a confession either through free press or through the ultimate demise of those who perpetrated this act. Only then once the elite have realized the power they once held has become a sinking vessel, the tides will turn in our favor. Hopefully.

Perhaps their over confident preemptive strike was to be their downfall. Severely under estimating the power of the information technology era we are so blessed to have. Severely under estimating the people. Greed, power and lust is their downfall. They can't fool all of the people all of the time forever. Eventually balance will prevail.

reply to post by Soloist


So why are you still trying? Give up already

reply to post by FlySolo

Yep, now you're sounding like me!

Rign on. Couldn't agree more. The mind changes shape in the process of researching 9/11, and I'm just trying to remind us to retain a loving "mould", capable of maintain hope, and optimism, even in the face of the worst injustice and indignity imaginable - and TRIUMPH in history, since the spirit of truth is on our side. They wanted to be God and bend history to their will, but it all backfired on them thanks be to the internet, and now "we" the whole world over are waking up, not just to evil things like 9/11, but to something on our horizon that is better by an infinite degree, something loving, just, Civilized, formative, and so while the Crime of the Century is now known increasingly for what it was, our job, imho, is to get busy plowing a new field, while putting "them" all on notice that we could rise up as needed in more ways than one (and I don't mean violent bloody revolution either, just a change of MIND).

If our mind is shaped by this, in the right way, through all this suffering and strife, then by God we CAN move mountains of historical causation, but not as haters, and dumed down nitwits, shaking fists and imagining the likes of Dick Cheney being himself waterboarded (although we might entertain that idea just for fun, as needed!).

Originally posted by Soloist

but yes those of us who don't buy into the truther mantra do not trust him or his findings.

You see, we don't need to read through all your mantra to find the real hidden gems of your agenda. Once sentence will speak more than the rest of your rhetoric. Eventually the truth comes out. You're against the movement, therefore science from a truther means nothing.

Typical and disgusting. Let the blood be on your hands. How do you sleep at night?

reply to post by Soloist


So basically, you are not happy with Jones's career being ruined, you must ruin the careers of anyone that gets involved with this as well. What do you think will happen when this group of "neutral and truly independent" scientists concurs with his findings? You would want names and credentials to go along with the results right? So then you people would either A) disregard that information as biased or B) try to find something to discredit the experiment or those scientists personally. I bet you never thought about those repercussions. Arguing about what independent really means must have sucked up the brainpower that would have been used to come to that conclusion.

For anyone who still thinks the official story about 9/11 is, essentially true, I want you to watch this video of the north tower exploding, as well as any and all other videos you can get your hands on, showing in physical reality, what actually occured, and do so with an open mind free from any prior assumption or contemptous bias, prior to investigation.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I understand but I think you and I both know what must happen first before a true shift can occur. Once the truth has been revealed, light and dark sides will battle. Its going to be bloody. Its going to be insanely violent. In order to achieve true happiness, we must all experience true pain and suffering. Without the experience and knowledge of true pain and suffering, unfortunately, we will have learned nothing.

I recall a thread sometime ago where someone posed this question. "Is it worth finding out the truth?". Think of the consequences? The elite with their back against the wall isn't going to be pretty. My answer to this philosophical question is yes, it would be worth it. Much pain, but the end will justify the means.

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by bsbray11
I don't need a quote to know what you said.

So are now going to retract your claim?

Re-read it and think this time. By this time I'm sure you've seen where I already showed you one of your quotes as an example of what I'm talking about.

And we already know that Jones believed fully that them*te was what he thought brought down the towers, he said so in public years earlier. He has a stake in the conspiracy as do A&E who get their money from it as well.

Now I'll admit I couldn't make total sense of this because of the grammar or some typo or something, but this was in response to me asking why Jones wasn't "independent" in your view before.

Oops, my bad, didn't review it well enough, but there ya go, the corrections are in bold.

Great.

Now can you finally explain what Steven Jones' "stake" in this is? You've already admitted it was harmful to his reputation so I know that can't be it. Here's your quote on that too in case you already forgot that:

Jones is NOT an independent in this matter, he staked his reputation, and ruined it actually

And what is Niels Harrit's "stake" in this?

And what are the "stakes" of the other various authors involved with the paper?

You're trying to say Jones et al aren't independent scientists because:

1) Jones suspected thermite was used before he did his study, which btw is why he did it in the first place (and thus my question -- do you consider only purely accidental discoveries legitimate? The rest of the scientific community does not harbor that limitation).

Partially, you are getting closer here. He was fully committed to the truth movement and his claims at that point, to such an extreme he ruined his own career.

If we are to believe these claims, it should be handled by a neutral party of independent scientists. Had verifiable samples been sent to such a lab instead of himself attempting to do the work, then it's quite possible the results would carry quite a bit more weight in the non-truther community.

Here we are again. You are trying to weasel in the suggestion that Jones isn't a "neutral party" because he was already a "truther," ie "conspiracy theorist."

Once again we are faced with your belief that "conspiracy theorists" are automatically "biased" and their work isn't worth considering, out of hand, as if it's tainted. And of course we haven't been debating any actual science from the paper this whole time, to further illustrate that. We've only been beating around the bush of why in the hell you think "conspiracy theorists" are illegitimate researchers in the first place. You just dismiss them out of hand, as you keep showing. You are an intellectual bigot. You really don't want to hear anything unless it forms YOUR pre-made conclusions. Jones was not always a "truther." He changed his beliefs well after 9/11, based on data he saw as a "neutral" scientist.

So... according to you, Jones and his colleagues aren't independent scientists because (a) he already believed there was thermite in the buildings, so obviously he was a "conspiracy theorist" and thus automatically stupid and can't be trusted, and (b) he's apparently after AE911's money.

You added the stupid part, but yes those of us who don't buy into the truther mantra do not trust him or his findings.

Thanks for that.

You might as well just say, "I don't believe him because he's a "truther" ", or better yet, "I don't believe him because I don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job," or "I don't believe him because I don't want" to."

And you still haven't elaborated on what Steven Jones or any of the others have to gain from all of this. There are a big handful of questions from each one of my posts you're just totally ignoring. No spine? Actually you don't think with your spine, so I must be thinking of something else. I can tell you know when you're cornered. HA HA.

This whole "discussion" we've been having, has been about nothing but whether or not it's appropriate to dismiss Jones out of hand just because he believes in his own work. You are so bigoted towards "truthers" that you don't even want to consider anything anyone associated with the word has to say, period. Like I said, Jones was a totally impartial scientist well after 9/11, until he saw information that led to his confirming piece of research. There is plenty of material of his online for you to watch, and I know for a fact you haven't yet suffered to watch any of it because of your whole attitude.

Whether you like it or not, Jones, Harrit and others involved with this are world-renown scientists and whether you like it or not, they truly believe in their cause and their work. And -- they are more qualified than you are.

reply to post by FlySolo


We have to set out to come to power at all levels and take the long view of history, like some sort of 2010 think thank thinking about the evolution of power for the remainder of this entire century, that kind of thing.

So to the smarter, younger among you, with a clean record and good pedigree and all that (whatever that means), set your sights on public service for all the right reasons, because when it comes right down to it - this is who we are up against:

That not too smart but attractive asskisser who's heart is corrupted, but who also has all his teachers fooled and is the recipient of honours and awards - he could be the next POTUS or Senator.. think about that and then ask yourself

- should it be him, or ME?

We COULD go long with this, and really start thinking properly, and getting highly educated and then setting out to come to power

BUT - when the time comes, we might still have to throw our body and everything we hold dear into the gears of that old wicked machine, or risk being killed by the CIA or something like that - that's where it will count and where the rubber will meet the road, our willingness to take a STAND at the right time and in the right places and contexts.