What did the Catholic Church ever do to You?

Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by bsbray11

 

I've never felt threatened by Islam and unlike Catholics, they never slaughtered my ancestors either

So , are you inferring that you feel threatened by Catholicism ?

Much moreso than by Islam, yes, but I don't take either of them as a serious threat to me personally anymore. Maybe if this was 400 years ago, I would fear for my life because of the church, but not in this day and age, thank God.

Were your ancestors really slaughtered by the Catholics ? I mean , do you know this for a fact , or are you just "generally speaking" ?

My Celtic ancestors had their culture invaded and destroyed by Catholic missionaries, yes. I know because I have family members that have traced back our lineage and I am descended from Germans and Irish, I am blond-haired blue-eyed, etc. But even if I was generally speaking, does that make slaughtering the Celts and destroying their culture any less significant to you? The fact that you even think being personal or "general" makes a difference is disgusting to me. It's apparent compassion towards the lives of others doesn't rank high for you, but being here apparently defending Catholicism, why am I not surprised?

None of your ancestors were ever "slaughtered" by muslims ? How can you be so sure of this and state it as fact ?

I would be interested if you could find historical records of Muslims invading Ireland or Germany and slaughtering Celtic peoples.

reply to post by bsbray11

It's apparent compassion towards the lives of others doesn't rank high for you, but being here apparently defending Catholicism, why am I not surprised?

It's apparent compassion towards the lives of others doesn't rank high for you

Please feel free to show how that is apparent , from what I posted .

being here apparently defending Catholicism,

Again , please feel free to show how it is apparent , from what I posted , that I defend Catholicism .

You made statements , I asked you for clarification . Simple as that .

I'm still waiting for a legitimate response that would substantiate your claims .

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by csimon
The "Hail Mary" isn't a prayer praying to Mary.

The "Hail Mary" is two parts. The first part is taken from the annunciation of the angel Gabriel - "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus." The second part is asking for Mary's intercession "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death. Amen."

Deny ignorance and learn for yourself. Flame on.

edit on 30-12-2010 by csimon because: (no reason given)

Um.....

I hate to point out the obvious here but um...you just completely proved your own assertion wrong.
First you claim it is NOT a prayer TO Mary.
Then you explain it is a prayer made up of two parts
1 Addressing Mary directly
2 Asking her for something

If that is not a prayer TO Mary, then wow, just wow.

So one catholic calls me a liar and one calls me ignorant? I am feeling the love.

I didn't call you or anyone ignorant, but if the shoe fits ...

Look, I'm sorry that you don't understand that I do not pray to Mary and that is not what the Catholic church teaches. Research Catholoc apologetics and learn for yourself.

reply to post by oliveoil


Funny thing about being a Catholic. We are all supposed to strive to acheive the Sacraments as a testimoney of our faith and belief in the Church. When I married a non Catholic and did not try to convert her I was determined to be no longer worthy of my faith by our local parish priest. Even to the point of being denied Communion at my own mother's funeral.

What do I have against the Catholic Church? Try hipocracy my gay brother is still in good standing with the Church while I am not? Go figure? What is the lesson, read the Bible and make your own choices on how to live as a Christian and do not depend on anyone else or any church to tell you what faith in God is meant to be.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

No, perhaps you were just special. I have never met a Catholic, or a person that simply attended a service, that was under the impression that Catholics worship Mary. Does she hold a special place? Absolutely, she is the mother of our lord, but that does not make her God. We ask her to pray for us, we ask her to ask her son to forgive us, we believe that Jesus will never deny the request of His mother, and in that through the Hail Mary, and every other Catholic prayer, we ask for forgiveness, we ask for guidance, but we do not ask these things of Mary.

Help me understand - you PRAY to a dead woman, Mary, for her intercession on your behalf, believing that her requests will always be honored, yet that is somehow not a "prayer" or worshipful? Are Catholics trying to do an end-run around the biblical verse that says "none come to the Father but through me" by going through Mary instead?

Isn't that a lot like trying to get to heaven by catching God on a technicality? Seems a bit risky to me - it seems like a deity would likely have the very best lawyers to choose from...

reply to post by oliveoil


Jesus christ did not start the catholic church constantine established the church to be doctrine to men which jesus did disagree with in his time.I do not refute jesus but disagree with your assumptions somewhat,afterall an empire in a day?

Well, to answer your question, OP, I went to a Catholic wedding, and it wasted two and a half hours of my life when it only should have wasted 45 minutes. And, the priest was drunk. I am not joking. That was the only thing that made it worthwhile.. watching him forget the bride's name. Again, not joking.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Well, believe what you want, I know what I believe and Mary is in no way equated with or to God. Perhaps, one day you will be inspired to look into it enough to stop spreading lies.

Peace

Odd that you would judge me a liar. How very Catholic of you.
Speaking of lies, you do realize this entire post of yours is a lie, right?

Let's not cast stones, or judge, right?

I never said Mary was a god.

You've been going on for the past few pages about how Catholics worship Mary, and then claim that my post is a lie? Man, I don't know about you.

Your claim has been that Catholics worship Mary and that is a lie, they do not. It's very simple. I could say that you were misinformed, however, you have no desire to learn the truth, you want to continue believing the stories you've read online. To each their own.

I meant to say that I hope one day you will be inspired to look into this issue further, it was a hope nothing more nothing less.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Help me understand - you PRAY to a dead woman, Mary, for her intercession on your behalf, believing that her requests will always be honored, yet that is somehow not a "prayer" or worshipful? Are Catholics trying to do an end-run around the biblical verse that says "none come to the Father but through me" by going through Mary instead?

Sure. You are familiar with people praying for each other, right? Are you familiar with examples from the Bible? I'm not being snarky. If it would help, I'd be happy to provide examples.

So, it's a function of both Tradition (capital 'T'), tradition and also falls within the bounds of Sola Scripture. The part that most people that aren't Catholic get antsy about is when Catholics ask people who are deceased or are not here corporally to pray for them.

Catholics believe that all believers are part of the mystic body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:12) and that death does not exclude someone from that body. As such, they are just as 'eligible' as others for you to ask to pray for you.

I believe that another hang-up is the word 'pray'. It is often equated ONLY with worship. When someone in the time of Shakespeare said something along the lines of 'I pray thee, sir...' he wasn't worshiping that individual, he was beseeching his assistance.

Here are the definitions of 'pray':

transitive verb

1. to implore or beseech: now seldom used except as the elliptical form of “I pray you”: pray tell me
2. to ask for by prayer or supplication; beg for imploringly
3. to recite (a prayer)
4. to bring about, get, etc. by praying

intransitive verb

1. to ask very earnestly; make supplication, as to a deity
2. to worship God, a god, etc., as by reciting certain set formulas

I hope that helps!

BTW, Happy New Years! I just realized that it's now Friday here.

Eric

Originally posted by oliveoil
Seriously, 99 % of all you posters out there seem to have beef with the catholic church. The Church Jesus Christ himself established. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM ? The Church has always been there though out the ages always giving and supporting people in need.You cant always turn toward your family but you can always count on the Catholic church. (hypocrites)

Mods, please post this where you seem fit. Thanks OO

edit on 27-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

My first problem is that the Catholic church is a political priory of Rome, not of Jesus Christ.
The history of Rome, of the pontificate itself and words of the pontiffs themselves is clear enough about that.
A Church is a body of people..not an institution of man.

Second: their nuns bashed me and priests raped and abused me - and over 150 million+ other children world wide " in the name of God" in a massive abuse of trust and stolen privillege spreading despair, injury, pain, death and fear through our schools institutions and work with the military. Jesus, is not a paedophile, abuser murderer or woman basher...and doesnt outsource this activity either - whatsmore the fruits of the HOLY spirit are loving kindness, joy, faith and hope.

Third Opus Dei - deranged psuedoscientific maniacal paradoxically nazi right wing organisation hell bent on twisting logic reason and faith into its most digusting filthy forms...worshipers of the idols of power property and presteige, worshipers of doctrine, not God.

The bible clearly states keep religion and politics seperate.


Fourth - after literally billions die for the LITERAL 'the word of God' as written in the bible....Ratzinger comes out flippantly last year and says ' oh its only symbolic'.....thus desecreating the memories of the dead on both sides of the religious bloodbath over the centuries.. According to Ratzinger, the bible is no longer the living literal word of God.


Fifth: PUBLIC tax funds used to fund PRIVATE orgies of art, history, land, people, political power and stateism utilizing fear masked as 'religous privillige ' to avoid taxation and prosecution under due criminal and civil laws.

Sixth they dumped my own mother as unclean when she divorced a violent drunkard..then proceeded to continue to fleece her of a quarter of her megre pension for over 20 years..rejecting her calls for help, and aid for her and her 6 children using her faith and their sadistic inscestuous maligant concept of God against her mind until she broke.

Jesus said ' suffer the little children', not 'make them suffer'.


And Lastly..seventh and most important - Jesus saves. NOT the Catholic church.





The Lord rebuke them....they, as an institution, disgust and offend me.


Rosha

Originally posted by Rosha
My first problem is that the Catholic church is a political priory of Rome, not of Jesus Christ.
The history of Rome, of the pontificate itself and words of the pontiffs themselves is clear enough about that.
A Church is a body of people..not an institution of man.
Second: their nuns bashed me and priests raped and abused me - and over 150 million+ other children world wide " in the name of God" in a massive abuse of trust and stolen privillege spreading despair, injury, pain, death and fear through our schools institutions and work with the military. Jesus, is not a paedophile, abuser murderer or woman basher...and doesnt outsource this activity either - whatsmore the fruits of the HOLY spirit are loving kindness, joy, faith and hope.
Third Opus Dei - deranged psuedoscientific maniacal paradoxically nazi right wing organisation hell bent on twisting logic reason and faith into its most digusting filthy forms...worshipers of the idols of power property and presteige, worshipers of doctrine, not God.
The bible clearly states keep religion and politics seperate.
Fourth - after literally billions die for the LITERAL 'the word of God' as written in the bible....Ratzinger comes out flippantly last year and says ' oh its only symbolic'.....thus desecreating the memories of the dead on both sides of the religious bloodbath over the centuries.. According to Ratzinger, the bible is no longer the living literal word of God.
Fifth: PUBLIC tax funds used to fund PRIVATE orgies of art, history, land, people, political power and stateism utilizing fear masked as 'religous privillige ' to avoid taxation and prosecution under due criminal and civil laws.
Sixth they dumped my own mother as unclean when she divorced a violent drunkard..then proceeded to continue to fleece her of a quarter of her megre pension for over 20 years..rejecting her calls for help, and aid for her and her 6 children using her faith and their sadistic inscestuous maligant concept of God against her mind until she broke.
Jesus said ' suffer the little children', not 'make them suffer'.
And Lastly..seventh and most important - Jesus saves. NOT the Catholic church.

1) It's hard to discuss this without knowing the the specifics of what you are referring to.

2) That is absolutely horrendous. As much as I would like to, I don't think I could ever find forgiveness for anyone who had done something like that. I'm sorry for what you went through. As an aside, where did the 150 million number come from? I try to stay up on this stuff and I haven't seen that number (not that it's too important as one is too much).

3) I don't know too much about Opus Dei, unfortunately. I should remedy that.

4) I think that you may be mistaken about this. The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is the inspired word of God and is completely inerrant.

5) What public funds are used for art?

6) I really don't understand this, but you have my sympathy if your mother didn't receive the Christian charity that she deserves.

7) I don't think that you will find any Catholics that disagree with this.

Happy New Year!

Eric

Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by bsbray11

 

It's apparent compassion towards the lives of others doesn't rank high for you, but being here apparently defending Catholicism, why am I not surprised?

It's apparent compassion towards the lives of others doesn't rank high for you

Please feel free to show how that is apparent , from what I posted .

No problem. It's because you asked me if I'm actually directly related to those people, like you are going to "debunk" my problem with the Catholics slaughtering the Celts just because I'm not descended from the Celts personally (which I am). It would be a problem whether I'm related or not, so your question was totally out of line and inappropriate, because slaughtering anyone (whether I am related to them or not) just because they don't conform with your culture is... Want to take some guesses here based on a sense of morality? Any sense at all? If you thought of this before you would have never taken such a disgusting line of questioning. Though to a little credit I think it's because you don't like me personally rather than entire races of people.

being here apparently defending Catholicism,

Again , please feel free to show how it is apparent , from what I posted , that I defend Catholicism .

Because I am outlining the atrocities Catholics have performed, the Inquisition, wiping out various native cultures, etc., and you are antagonizing me as I do so. If you can't tell when you're arguing with someone on an internet forum then there is a problem. Go back to your original post to me and review it again. Either you're here to defend Catholicism or else you have such a personal problem with me that you will bicker with me on any thread where you see me just out of pure spitefulness. And if that's the case, which I think it is, then I really have to applaud you on the maturity man. You're really showing me.

So unless you ARE defending Catholicism, what in the hell are you arguing with me for in the first place? Go back to the 9/11 forums and find something else to whine about, if you really want to argue with me.

reply to post by bsbray11


So , in other words , you can't really PROVE that the Catholic church slaughtered any of your ancestors , anymore than you can PROVE that none of your ancestors were ever slaughtered by muslim extremists ?

That's what I thought ...