It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Vatican Emerges From WikiLeaks As A Key Player On Global Scene

page: 11
113
<< 8  9  10    12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 02:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

He met with General Jaruzelski the Polish President and as is customary when heads of state meet the Polish President gave the Polish Pope a oil painting by a local Polish artist of a local Polish Landscape valued at 15.00 USD. The Pope gave the Communist Leader an original Rembrant valued at 3,000,000.00 USD.



Would the Pope give me an audience if I brought an old "Elvis on Velvet"? It's got to be worth more than 15.oo USD. It's antique.


Really, Proto, is the exchange of paintings a recognized ritual? Is this still customary today?


By any other name, it is still a form of "money laundering", is it not?

edit on 28-12-2010 by Alethea because: add




posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 03:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Expat888
And ? Take a look at history.. The vatican is worse than the u.s when it comes to arrogance and meddling in the affairs of governments around the world.. Instigating wars and toppling governments..


Yeah, but we are catching-up pretty quick.

By our standards, all those religious wars were skirmishes between Rome and it's competitors.
In the "older times" they actually had to send in soldiers with swords and peaks to wipe out enemies. Nowadays we just send a drone. Our wars (though, when looking at it indepth, still religious in nature) and meddling are of a grand-scale that ancient Rome could only dream of.

Considering my statement above, it seems no more than logic that the US and Rome are cuddling up to eachother.
The US has become what the Swiss mercenary in the 1400's to 1700's was to Rome,(basically since the Swiss are in too small a number to be of importance in nowadays military.) The scale has changed, Rome has adapted, but the game is still the same-->remain in power at all cost.

Shortly, the US will be the Swiss-mercenary to Rome again in swatting those apostates in Iran... Just wait for it.
edit on 12/28/2010 by diakrite because: typos



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 03:27 PM
link   
This comment is to Proto. Not long ago, you posted a thread about All Roads Lead to Rome. I know this is a bit off topic but somewhat relevant. Of course, it's obvious that the Vatican is still a player in international affairs and politics.

However, you made a statement in your thread that Julius Caesar survived the assassination. I asked for proof, but you never did because I found your theories a bit hard to believe despite the bibliographical references you provided. Now, if you had provided actual proof that he did survive and hid in Seborga the rest of his life, puppeteering people, then maybe people will take you seriously.

Not to mention your bringing up the 13 Knights Templar going to visit Seborga in secret when historians only found records of NINE Knights Templar traveling from France to Outremer, to which it was founded by St. Bernard of Clairvaux, to my understanding from sources I've read.

Have a good day.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 04:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Gorman91
 



Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by burntheships
 


I don't see it in the past of anybody. You can't judge current day people by their entire history, especially one that goes back literally 2000 years ago.


I respectfully disagree. Of course you can. Its only prudent to do so in fact.


Once they started actually reading their own Bible, they stopped such things.


I respectfully disagree again. They just changed clothes and methods.
And I could name a slew of sins that are still perpetrated upon men by those within The Church.
But I wont, because that is not quite what this thread is about.


It's not complicated at all. You don't judge a main based on how his ancestors acted. I'd say the only exception would be Nazis and that's all that comes to mind. Last I checked, the Pope was just one of many children forced marched into youth groups.


If he continues on in the same fashion, sure you can call him on it.
For instance, and again I reference my above description of The Church just changing chothes and methods.

The Church and The Vatican wage a modern day Inquistion of sorts by dictating policy to The United Nations for other countries aside from themself.


Point is. You judge a man based on his current statements. Not even his previous ones from decades ago, for people change. You judge a man by his current statements, beliefs, and actions. You don't judge the men under his command by his actions. You judge them by their own.


See above.


Along with the Vatican, the American evangelicals, the Iranians, and many others are gaining back positions they lost long ago. That doesn't make them all evil, that doesn't mean they are trying to being the world into the past, that doesn't even mean they're interested in taking over the world. It means a human being is doing what a human being would do in a high position: have a voice and be listened too.


But here is the grand failure in your argument. You see, The Pope claims to be The Vicar of Christ.
He sets himself up to be no mere man. So using the pathetic excuse that he is "just human" and that The Church are just men, and that The Vatican is just a typical power player does not stand to logic.

You see this is precisely what I detest about The Church. They prey upon mens desires to be redeemed.
They hold out the wand of Salvation, yet they can not deliver it.

Instead, they offer a cheap substitute. One of warm fuzzy feelings delivered under the guise of "Gods word" delivered in Latin while they are clothed in Red and Purple, gilded with Gold and Silver and fine fabric.

Vipers.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 04:26 PM
link   
reply to post by burntheships
 


And would an inquisition be bad if directed towards the right people? I'd love to see a modern day inquisition on a number of different groups of people of the modern age. Because they deserve to have everything they've hidden destroyed. I'd say Wiki leaks has gone ahead and done an inquisition on the US government, and I fully endorse their actions as an inquisition-like event. So you can use a word, what does that mean? National socialism is also a word. A word Hitler turned into evil, but that doesn't make national socialism evil. It makes what Hitler did evil. No different is inquisition, nor the church. Thus far this Pope has taken a bit of a more militant role on the issues John Paul II were fighting for. And thus far I haven't really seen much wrong in them.

The title of being more than just a man died a long time ago. They don't even claim to be infallible any more, just on what the church believes. Which is indifferent to every single other religious leader out there.. They are just a man. Vicar of Christ means representation of Christ. A representative. Indifferent to any other priest, nun, bishop, brother, etc etc. Any child anywhere in the world is a vicar of Christ according to the bible.

So do try to learn history, do try to learn doctrines of faith to the religion you criticize, and do try to base on current sayings of a man.

The religion I follow, and I am a catholic Christian, states quite clearly I don't have to do a damn thing to do with the church except visit once a week for mass. Anything else is your interpretation of my religion, not what it is.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 04:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by burntheships
 


So do try to learn history, do try to learn doctrines of faith to the religion you criticize, and do try to base on current sayings of a man.

The religion I follow, and I am a catholic Christian, states quite clearly I don't have to do a damn thing to do with the church except visit once a week for mass. Anything else is your interpretation of my religion, not what it is.


I want to address your whole post, but at the moment I am pressed for time.
However, your last line needs to be adressed quickly.

And please understand that I am not knocking God, Jesus Christ, Gods Word, Or Christianity, which are all seperate from The Catholic Church. I am not contentios towards you, or any other Catholic. My contention lies with the false doctrines that The Church teaches, uses to abuse men and women and children and even more horrific, the atrocities of The Vatican itself.

Just to be clear, my scathing words are not toward you, but The Church.

You state, and I quote

I don't have to do a damn thing to do with the church except visit once a week for mass. Anything else is your interpretation of my religion, not what it is.


Do you realize what you just said? Surely you can not miss the far reaching damning that you just placed upon The Church?

On the one hand, you say that men are free, they have free will and that if they are led astray they can not be blaming The Church for it. On the other hand, your admission is that the only requirement for you to remain covered by Jesus forgiveness, and recieve the blessing of The Church is that you show up once a week for Mass.

So, let me understand this. Please correct me if I am wrong. Do your intentions matter? What if you are insincere when you show up? What if you really dont care, but are just going through the motions? Yet, The Church, and yes The Pope still does claim to be The Vicar Of Christ, I will prove that, offers freely your covering just by a rote action.

That is so far from what if found in Scripture its scary. As I said before, the traditions of men.
It would not matter what else takes place with The Church, The Vatican. If that is the kind of religion they offer,
no wonder they need to move back center to the political stage.

edit on 28-12-2010 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 05:10 PM
link   
reply to post by burntheships
 


Assuming again. I said the only thing to do with the church, not the only thing to do with Jesus Christ and the faith as a whole. They are, as you said, separate. The only thing the church matters for, at its core, is a house of worship once a week. To teach the word as it is found, offer an opinion from the church and and then another opinion of the priest himself, pray, receive communion, and than leave to think, live it out, and teach it to others. That is what the church's purpose plays. Nothing more and nothing less. There are appendages of that people chose to be part of that are not needed.

Going to church is but a small part of being Christian. And I like to hear the words that the church speaks on matters. I can chose to say they are wrong on one thing and right on another. As can anyone. I think the church is quite wrong in it's handling of sexual abuses. But that is but one thing wrong with them amongst the many rights and other wrongs.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 05:38 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



The Great Law was in fact so greatly written nothing can actually supercede it to this day, which is why the Supreme Court of the State of Pennsylvania is the Highest Court in the United States because it is the best versed with the Great Law, Crown Law and Cannon Law, all of which are still used in appeals as Mr. Hazard is nice enough to demonstrate, because one of the things in the Great Law is that every act of importance pertaining to the government must be recorded.


You have a source for saying the Pennsylvania Supreme court is higher than the SCOTUS?


A binding contract from a thousand years ago is just as binding today, which is yes, why, in fact, these lazy stupid humans you have so little respect for labor away at ongoing plans because the contract that governs that calls for it.


How is it binding? Who is binding it? Its mere parchment, unless there is true faith or force to back it up. Contracts are absolutely useless unless they are enforced. You give humanity too much credit when it comes to honoring agreements. They honor nothing unless their lives are at stake.


Really then please explain to me why billions of people are still listening to Jesus who claimed to be just a man, and listening to Mohamed who claimed to be just a man and living their lives and planning their futures based on what they had to say about their beliefs in a monotheistic system of worship.

Why do we hear 10,000 times a day here on ATS someone mention Thomas Jefferson, or Benjamin Franklin or George Washington?


Who really follows them?

Priests and Clerics invoked the names of the Christ and the Prophet for their own ends, to justify their own endeavors such as the Crusades and Jihad. Preachers use it to justify the million dollar homes they live in. Politicians use it to justify their campaigns and later their actions when they "do whats right".

Those names have become tools.

Likewise with the American Founding Fathers, Politicians and Pundits spout them off without really knowing what the men stood for.

They are modes of persuasion.


I need no evidence that the Jews have steadfastly refused to name their God(s) because you yourself don't know the names of their God(s).


So you are saying the Tetragrammaton isn't the Name?


Further you have no idea what was around before Rome since Rome has controlled the History of the World for thousands of years by being the main point of desemination for it.


There are historical documents around before the time of the Romans. The Islamic world held numerous texts beyond the grasp of the Catholic Church.

The Roman Church was and is neither omnipresent or omnipotent.


Let's not even get into some of the absurdities of some of the Jewish beliefs, for instance that their are only 600,000 Jewish Souls and if there are more than 600,000 Jews alive, that each is only considered to be a fragment of one of those souls, and the numerology involved in the religion because once you understand Jewish Numerology then yes conquering the world based on a simple plan of math not only becomes plausible but down right obvious child's play.


Jewish belief? As if all Jews follow the Kabbalah. That is a Kabbalist belief and you know it.


I will admit I host vistors from time to time who are not of this dimension. This makes me nothing but a gracious and open minded host, and not a member of a religion or a cult.


So you admit belief in the existence of such phenomena, but yet do not entertain the idea that a phenomena much older and without the fragilities of humanity doesn't sit at the top of the food chain?


The Planet itself is a life form, a concious one, so are the other planets. Have these spirits aided me with knowledge that even at times has saved my life? Yes, but I don't put it past them from having first created the situations where my life becaome endangered for them to save it.


Yet, you think humans are in absolute control, that only humans are guiding and directing humanity?


Our limited understanding of evolution and the Universe has in part been largely impeded by Rome and the Monotheistic Concepts of God that still make and have long made some mysteries off limits and a matter of herracy, or the pervue of the Devil.


What exactly is wrong the concept of an Infinite Singularity? Both Pythagoras and Plato spoke of the Monad and the Form of the Good, even the writings of the "Hermes Trismegistus" speak of The All.


Anyway I do intend to do a gray area thread on the 12 classic Gods one of these days, and I will certainly invite you to participate and take part in it, and look forward to more of your thoughts on this.


I will check it out.

Dum invicem rursus occurremus, cura ut valeas!






edit on 28/12/10 by MikeboydUS because: .



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 06:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

He met with General Jaruzelski the Polish President and as is customary when heads of state meet the Polish President gave the Polish Pope a oil painting by a local Polish artist of a local Polish Landscape valued at 15.00 USD. The Pope gave the Communist Leader an original Rembrant valued at 3,000,000.00 USD.



Would the Pope give me an audience if I brought an old "Elvis on Velvet"? It's got to be worth more than 15.oo USD. It's antique.


Really, Proto, is the exchange of paintings a recognized ritual? Is this still customary today?


By any other name, it is still a form of "money laundering", is it not?

edit on 28-12-2010 by Alethea because: add


It's customary for Heads of State to exchange gifts, usually something of cultural signifigance, for Instance the Japanese President might present a Samuri Sword to George Bush, who would in turn say give Cowboy Boots in return.

It's very unusual for the gift to have the value as the one the Pope gave to the Communist President of Poland, in that case an original Rembrant worth 3,000,000.00

However this is a much more discrete way to pay a head of state a 3,000,000.00 dollar bribe than it is to give them cash or a check.

Here in the United States many Presidents actually donate the gifts they recieve from heads of State to their Presidential Libraries, faithful White House Staff or other Charities and are expected to delcare the full taxable value of what Gifts they chose to keep when they leave office and to pay 'tax' on them.

However each nation has it's own protocols.

In this case between the Pope and the Polish Communist President because he was making an extroidanary request, to essentially allow for a slow and orderly change of the system of governance to one more favorable to the Polish people, the Pope gave an extroidanary gift to go along with the request.

This actually sends a very dual powerful message by saying, in essence "If I am willing to give and spend that much to gain your assistance, imagine how much I would spend to get rid of you if you don't give it to me."

Gulp!



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 08:37 PM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 





You have a source for saying the Pennsylvania Supreme court is higher than the SCOTUS?


You can find the source for this in a video on YouTube and a book by the same name "Fifty things you don't know about America". I honestly have not researched this one yet. But the few I have taken the time to research seem to be valid. I believe it's both worth considering as well as further researching and you might too if you find the time to read the Samuel Hazzard material I linked you the other day. Some incredibly fascinating things in there about what really happened in very early Colonial America, when the Dutch, Swedes, Germans and various English Factions and religious sects were all vying for a toe hold.

The things in it are not conspiracy theories but actually documents and acts recorded with the early government of Pennsylvania. It actually includes incidental audits of the 1st and 2nd United States Banks located in Philadelphia and a number of major infrastructure projects and how these things were conceived, funded and undertaken as well as names of the foreign investors in the United States after the Revolutionary War.

Penn had the only proprietary colony, in other words a state that was a sole proprietorship with him the absolute decider in all matters with no interference from the crown. This is in part a reward from the crown for his Father's assistance in helping the King of England at a time when Parliament was threatening to further limit the power of the King and perhaps even do away with the English Monarchy, Penn's father was instrumental in helping the King retain power and cleaning up Parliament to be more amiable to the King, so the reward of the proprietary colony gave William his son some huge discretion in trying to carve out as big a toe hold as he could through it, as he and the free trade society he set up looked to usurp parts of Maryland, New York and New Jersey, Ohio and Canada and acquire as much additional land from the Indians as they could.

Some of the intrigues with the Natives are particularly interesting as it was all about trying to get the Indians to contractually sell land that was recognized as theirs legally. Penn worked hard to expand his colony which is why it's likely one of the largest of the original colonies.

Lots of intrigues in those records, and all pure history as Penn required every legal transaction and matter be recorded.




How is it binding? Who is binding it? Its mere parchment, unless there is true faith or force to back it up. Contracts are absolutely useless unless they are enforced. You give humanity too much credit when it comes to honoring agreements. They honor nothing unless their lives are at stake.


One of the things we have discovered through research in the All Roads Lead to Rome thread are some genuine letters between Rothschild and Sons and Gowan and Marx both London banking giants and agents for various entities to U.S. Presidents which were memorials which are legal protestations to governments about past due debts by the various states.

These letters were found by a member in a University that Gowan and Marx helped fund and build and show a very rare and disturbing glimpse of the financial situation in the early United States between the European Investors in American infrastructure and the loans made and stock sent to create and grow these things.

Constitution in Latin by the way means a guarantee of repayment and when you understand by reading the Treaty of Paris that it was actually the English monarch in his capacity as a roman prince, prince elector and arch-treasurer and prince elector of the United States and the arch-Treasurer of the United States that dictates a constitution must be written by our plenipotentiaries who while representing the states were also representing the Courts of Madrid, Versailles and The Netherlands as attorneys guaranteeing their and their citizens investments in the Colonies once management changed and the United States was recognized as a sovereign 'independent' entity.

Much of this debt and guarantee to repay it was only discussed and ratified by a small select secret committee of Congress made mention of in the treaty but sealed afterwards, therefore most of the citizens did not know the size of the debt what it was for, and to whom it was owed, but nonetheless our forefathers guaranteed repayment and the honoring as all contracts and debts as a 'price' of being granted formal independence.

These Memorials are addressed to the President(s) of the United States complaining about late payments and defaults amongst various states, with veiled and not so veiled threats that the complex financial arrangements and nature of the American Government might be exposed to the American people if default were allowed to occur.

The message was pretty clear, fail to pay, and we expose the financial arrangements and contractual obligations you have hidden from the people.

This would have in fact led to likely another revolution and still would. The Government would be exposed as a fraud since the government made the agreements to pay, and to honor investments as part of the Treaty.

The memorials actually painted a picture that made it fairly evident that the President of the United State's main function is to ensure payment by collecting it from the Governors of the States with the Governors of the States main function levying the payments in the form of taxes from the people.

The stick was exposure which would have led to most of the government being tarred and feathered, the carrot was payment would ensure future loans and stock investment. Because developing the land and infrastructure required an endless stream of immigrants, and those immigrants were coming from Europe, Europe could have just frozen the right to emigrate to the United States basically halting the progress of the business venture. Because the United States started out insolvent and heavily in debt it's always been dependent on foreign lines of credit to keep building the infrastructure to expand markets and develop resources and bring them to market.

So with out fresh capital coming from Europe and fresh immigrants coming from Europe the enterprise itself would have collapsed under it's debt, and full exposure of it's debt would have made the government untenable as the people rebelled against it.

This debt is actually what led to the Southern States trying to break away first during the Jackson administration who managed to talk them into staying in the Union in an historic session of Congress, where he made the appeal.

However by the time of the actual civil war, it appears from these letters that Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida were all in default on their loans, and that the Carolinas were teetering on default. So in reality the break from the Union was to try to get out from under the debt, and the Union's prosecution of the war was to save the whole enterprise from bankruptcy and exposure.

Some of this is conjecture but we have accomplished some significant research that confirms many elements of this and if we can continue to obtain some more of these correspondence between the London Bankers who were acting as Agents for many investors both named and unnamed in these memorials we may in fact be able to prove the one thing the government has always feared, exposure of the true nature of it's debt and who owes and owns what in the United States and from when.

Where the Pennsylvania material becomes very insightful is it shows the beginning of the process of the building of the infrastructure and the stock investments and bond investments and the proprietary rights of the European investors to it.

What threat makes all these contracts enforceable is if the people were actually informed through a credible source that they trusted of the level of deception by the Government since it's inception and the amount of debt and who owes what to whom and for what and who is profiting then and now from it, there would likely be rebellion.

So the Government has every reason to honor these contracts to avoid exposure.

It's all actually pretty simple and cut and dried from a business standpoint, and Mr. Boyd this is all simply business. The States are basically estates and farms, the nations are basically just collectives of states and farms, and the governments are basically just guarantees of payment to the principle investors in them.

No black magic, voodoo, gods, space aliens or inter-dimensional beings involved just the love of money.

By the way some other really fascinating things are to be found in the Hazard documents such as it was discovered and believed that burning Coal as a energy source released a substance in the air that prevented outbreaks of Cholera, the things in these documents will actually really change your perception on a lot of things.




Who really follows them?

Priests and Clerics invoked the names of the Christ and the Prophet for their own ends, to justify their own endeavors such as the Crusades and Jihad. Preachers use it to justify the million dollar homes they live in. Politicians use it to justify their campaigns and later their actions when they "do what’s right".

Those names have become tools.

Likewise with the American Founding Fathers, Politicians and Pundits spout them off without really knowing what the men stood for.

They are modes of persuasion.


As the great Chinese Emperor once said, religion is the Opium of the people. People take solace in these things, and find various forms of comfort that allow for a stoicism and acceptance of the imperfect by a belief that these intangible concepts and things will one day bring them perfection.

Politicians typically like to go forward in reverse and most people find this attractive. By romanticizing the past, most people feel that the past was better, therefore it's easy to sell them failed solutions that offer the illusion of things getting better through regression which of course makes progression tedious and slow and easy to control for the benefit of the Masters and Elites who own the infrastructure and resources that the people must follow the rules and labor as prescribed to sustain themselves to the bare minimum or excess their own talents and ambition allow for.

Those who lack talent and ambition resort to those comforts of religion and better days gone by as a means to endure the hardships of the present by imagining a better life is yet to come and is genuinely obtainable through these things.




So you are saying the Tetragrammaton isn't the Name?


I find it highly doubtful, in part because that's just a whole lot of syllables and I think a God of any self worth and ego would want a one or two syllable name that no one would mispronounce and would be synonymous with it. This is not absurd when you look at how many budding actors will change their names to much more simple ones that audiences can easily remember.

I have not met this deity or spoken to him, therefore it is impossible for me to say that this is his name or that he exists, but if it makes you happy to believe this is actually the name of the Jewish God(s), well like the good Emperor said religion is the Opium of the people.




There are historical documents around before the time of the Romans. The Islamic world held numerous texts beyond the grasp of the Catholic Church.

The Roman Church was and is neither omnipresent or omnipotent.


One of the key challenges I am facing in trying to expose Rome is this dearly held and stubbornly held belief that Rome is operating only as a church. Rome is essence a business model, of a handful of wealthy patricians who through good fortune, cunning, theft, and attrition ended up with the wealth of the Empire which had looted it from most of the known world.

When it comes to religious texts especially those older ones literally carved into stone that litter some of the dessert in the Middle East these are things of great interest to Rome which the Vatican or it's agents fund most of the archeological efforts to obtain them, interpret them in a favorable way to the Judean/Christian belief system, or obscure them all together.

Islam has a vested interest in Rome's system, because it is all based off the same shared God. If Rome debunks the God, Islam is as screwed as Rome would be if Islam debunks the God.

The great news is that the average person can't read or decipher these ancient and dead languages or often even recognize their importance which is why one poor Egyptian family sitting on top of a cache of ancient religious scrolls was actually using them as fire kindling until after several were destroyed their true significance was known.

However when it comes to the Dead Sea Scrolls stolen by Israel from Jordan as spoils of war, Israel still has failed on it's promise to make them fully available, while Jordan is still petitioning to get them back. Doubtless Jordan has copies but of course a copy does not suffice when something as important as the basis of Judaism/Christianity and Islam is potentially at stake in what is in those documents.

The governments all have a vested interest to control the flow of information and access, and the control of the press by just five corporations makes it pretty easy to 'censor' the news that does get out there.




Jewish belief? As if all Jews follow the Kabbalah. That is a Kabbalist belief and you know it.


No not all Jews practice the mysticism of the Kabala; in fact many non-Jews have turned to it in recent years.

Yet the truth is when it comes to the Kabala it has a significant place within Judaism. One of the things Rome in fact found so attractive about the monotheistic concepts being used by the Jews was how fractionalized they were. It allows for a lot of arguing, vying for dominance by being 'correct', and dividing a singular people into factions that are easy to turn against one another to make them even more manageable from a governing standpoint. If the people are fighting amongst themselves, well they have not much time to fight against the government or unite against it.

I in fact have nothing against any religion, I don't even care if someone is an occultist or avowed Satanist, Wiccan, Druid, Hindu, Taoist, Muslim, Jew or Christian, what troubles me is the way governments use these religions to create societal constructs dual moralities and hypocrisies and derive their power ultimately from the belief that these concepts of God is what makes or break the success of a State. If you drive your enemies before you and conquer them, well God loves you and your people, you are living right, if you got conquered and whipped well God is mad at your people and wanted to see you punished for living wrong.

It's an insane system, and when you view them all as being equal in a manner of speaking to where you are attached to none or favor none in particular you begin to see the much clearer the way the State uses religion to manipulate the people.

Example the Original Old Testament Ten Commandments prescribes how to treat your slaves, harsh punishments for offenses that pass on from generation to generation before the punishment is complete, victory in war if you obey God and God having to be given the first and best fruits of the harvest.

None of these things would be needed for an all powerful deity he can make his own fruit, and ideally would see all the people he created as equal. This is simply a system of governance and running a state aimed at expanding itself through slavery and war, and heavy taxation and imposing stiff penalties for failure to obey the State.




So you admit belief in the existence of such phenomena, but yet do not entertain the idea that a phenomena much older and without the fragilities of humanity doesn't sit at the top of the food chain?


Who is to say you or I or Skeptic Overlord doesn't sit at the top of the Food Chain after manifesting ourselves into this human form.

The fact that commonly unknown forms of life exist does not necessarily mean that they play a more important role than we do, but simply that they exist for a reason, that we don't.

They in fact might need us far more than we need them.

Where as these beings may not be as temporally limited in the length of their existence in their form, that doesn't mean that their form has more power to experience or to manifest than our own. I know the power of positive thinking and negative thinking can easily create self fulfilling prophecies, and that much of the media is meant to drive our moods towards an end that we expect based on the mood it sets.

I honestly feel sorry for these forms, as you know Pizza tastes great, and nothing is quite as refreshing as an Ice Cold Coca Cola made with real cane sugar and not corn syrup on a hot summer day.

I do know that if you open your mind to them, that they can in fact control your bodily functions to a great extent, but if you refuse to open your mind to them, that they can not, in other words they would like to live and experience vicariously through our corporal forms but it is up to you as to whether you want to let them.

One of the things Rome may in fact be doing is either protecting the people from their vagaries by denying these entities existence or the opposite exposing us to their vagaries by not informing us of their presence and their ability to influence our bodily actions if we let them into our minds.

I was honestly initially frightened of the existence of these beings but the more I interact with them, the more I have come to understand I enjoy a better life than they do, because mine while temporal is sentient, and encompasses a broader range of feeling and sensation.

I do not consider them to be particularly malevolent but more desperate for attention and recognition.

I do not fear them, I believe myself in fact to have as great or greater power than they do, and while this could all simply be the product of a delusional mind, I don't feel it's in my best interest to limit my experiences simply because they border on the unknown, or to underestimate my own ability and power, simply because I have not fully exerted it or had cause too.

I do believe most of our world revolves around fear, and fear is almost always imagined, so by trying to master my own, and confront my own, I believe this only makes me stronger.

Under no circumstances will I believe I am inferior to anything as that is an admission and guarantee of defeat. While I am not looking to be superior to anything, or anyone, I staunchly defend the exercise of my own free will and discretion at any cost and any risk.




Yet, you think humans are in absolute control, that only humans are guiding and directing humanity?


Humanity is part of the collective conscious of the planet, as each cell in our own body feels and carries out certain functions we too function in a similar role on the planetary level in my humble opinion. While I represent the whole of my corporal form intrinsic and vital parts of me play a key role, if I am too tired I must sleep, if my muscles are too tired I must rest them, if my heart is beating to quickly I must calm it, so the individual parts do sometimes dictate and limit what the whole can do.

One of the things I suspect likely is being kept from us is that we are part of a collective conscious that can be used to manifest spectacular and significant things by tapping into it. Of course if you don't recognize that, and only a few people do, and they can control our thoughts and moods and desire through mass programming through religion and media, then yes it's entirely possible we are being cheated out of our own right to do the same, while at the same time having a portion of our own power in essence stolen so others can use it to do so.

There is some evidence to suggest that the priestly class for instance in the catholic church is using altered states of mind through natural mood enhancers and hallucinogens while incanting rituals that tap into the collective energy of the combined laity in the congregation who are completely unaware that their own power is being channeled and redirected through the priests in this process.

These are things once again, while in large part simply theories and possibilities go largely unexplored because of the societal constructs that makes exploring them taboo by labeling them a form of insanity or blasphemy and heracy.

How long though do we want our evolution and understanding of the universe held in checked and impeded for the benefit of the few who may have a much greater understanding of it they are withholding for their own benefit.

I believe in mind over matter, so when it comes to this potential struggle, I don't feel unarmed or inferior, because I am willing to entertain these things to the extent that if need be I can conjure enough belief in them to utilize them to various extents if need be.

I have had occasion where I did need to do that in limited forms and have, so once again, no I am not afraid, do not feel or wish to be inferior, nor wish my free will to be subjugated by someone or something who requires me to feel inferior in order to subvert it and compromise me.




What exactly is wrong the concept of an Infinite Singularity? Both Pythagoras and Plato spoke of the Monad and the Form of the Good, even the writings of the "Hermes Trismegistus" speak of The All.


Honestly this means I am alone, and I do not wish to be alone, because if I am in fact alone, I can not in fact exist, which is why I do not like discussing the Law of One, because if there is just One it would certainly not need a law, as it would only have itself to impose the law upon, which is absolutely redundant because of there is just one, what could the one possibly do that would offend itself? Well be honest that it is just one, and realize that if there is only one there can not be another, and with out at least another, the one could have never been. Thus the Law fo One is the law of confusion so the One can remain in a state of confusion as to not accept it is just one, and find itself alone and then not at all.

While I wil concede in theory there is just one, I will never agree to it, as well then there is no confusion and the One must accept there is only one and with only one and no other, one is the loneliest number, the most boring, and the number closest to none and zero.

Bellum omnium contra omnes is all about establishing the one, by eliminating all the divisions, and while new agers like the idea of us all being one, Proto likes the idea of Pizza!

There will be no Pizza to be had should we all decide to accept we are one, therefore I refuse to entertain this notion as long as I desire to have Pizza.

Because I enjoy my sentient exisence I am opposed to all concepts involving One, incuding a One World Government, the Law of One, that we all our One and all the other One concepts that all add up to One that lead to none.

I know for a fact that it is Rome trying to achieve the One and remain bittely opposed to it and the concept.

The Universe was born out of chaos, which is why our system is one of controlled chaos, enough control for stability enough chaos to allow the Universe to exist, but the more controll the less chaos, in order to maintain controll there must be ever more controll added, eliminate chaos completely, the chaos of confusion born of free will, and well there goes your universe.

I really wish people would not ask these kinds of questions. But it's always fun conversing and debating with you Mr. Boyd.

Thanks.



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 09:29 PM
link   
reply to post by Gorman91
 



Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by burntheships
 


Assuming again. I said the only thing to do with the church, not the only thing to do with Jesus Christ and the faith as a whole. They are, as you said, separate. The only thing the church matters for, at its core, is a house of worship once a week. To teach the word as it is found, offer an opinion from the church and and then another opinion of the priest himself, pray, receive communion, and than leave to think, live it out, and teach it to others. That is what the church's purpose plays. Nothing more and nothing less. There are appendages of that people chose to be part of that are not needed.

Going to church is but a small part of being Christian. And I like to hear the words that the church speaks on matters. I can chose to say they are wrong on one thing and right on another. As can anyone. I think the church is quite wrong in it's handling of sexual abuses. But that is but one thing wrong with them amongst the many rights and other wrongs.


I must let on I will argue politics till I am blue in the face. Religion however is a different matter.
So I will let it go at this: Its amazing how convenient Religion has become these days.

As to the politics and corruption that runs throught The Vatican feel free to address it or not.

 


It stands as it is. The Vatican's Permanent Observer :

the Vatican's Permanent Observer to the United Nations since 1986,
www.c-fam.org...

And The Church, promoting its substitute for Jesus Christ.


the Vatican officially teaches that the Pope is the substitute for Christ Jesus. The words of the official pronouncement are:

“The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, 'is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.'

'For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise.” [Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition (Washington, DC: US Catholic Conference, 1994, 1997) #882.]

[Definition: “vicar”—in the broadest sense means someone who is authorized to act as a substitute or agent for a superior / compare “vicarious”—serving in the place of someone else; assuming the position, place, or office of another person]
www.christiananswers.net...


edit on 28-12-2010 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 10:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
reply to post by burntheships
 


Dated material...the Archbishop of New York City is Rev. Timothy Dolan.


Thank you for the correction.

Cardinal Edward Egan, left, and Archbishop Timothy Dolan

Read more: www.time.com...


Photo Credit : Mary Altaffer AFP www.time.com...



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 03:25 AM
link   
And I ALWAYS thought that the MSM portrayal of the worlds problems and that the MS saying the cause was Islam, now I KNOW its another religeous crusade and Holy war if the Vatican is has a hold in the White House.?!?!



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 05:13 AM
link   
reply to post by c3hamby
 



Originally posted by c3hamby
This shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

Stephen Greer in Hidden Truth states that the Vatican is as much a world power now as it ever was, and that there were certain factions within the Jesuit community that were into Satan worship and it was this group that were in the inside of the ET knowledge.

Before any Catholics take offense, understand it was a Jesuit Priest who turned me onto this book and who also confirmed that Greer was correct on the involvment of Satanism of some of the Jesuits.


Thanks for the book tip.

As I understand it :

“[Jesuit Adam] Weishaupt established the [modern version of the] Illuminati specifically to be a front organization behind which the Jesuits could hide. After being [formally] abolished by [Pope] Clement XIV in 1773, the Jesuits used the Illuminati and other organizations [Secret Societies] to carry out their operations.
Thus, the front organizations would be blamed for the trouble caused by the Jesuits.”
Bill Hughes...Author of The Secret Terrorists and The Enemy Unmasked

www.saintsagainsttyranny.com...

 


Here below I have embedded the Jesuit Oath.

Its not for the faint of heart.



From the Opening OP... Fr. Adolfo Nicolos, the "Black Pope"


A woman from "wearechange.org" confronts Fr. Adolfo Nicolo; the Head of the Jesuit Order with a couple of uncomfortable questions.




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 05:46 AM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



There is some evidence to suggest that the priestly class for instance in the catholic church is using altered states of mind through natural mood enhancers and hallucinogens while incanting rituals that tap into the collective energy of the combined laity in the congregation who are completely unaware that their own power is being channeled and redirected through the priests in this process.


This makes perfect sense and helps to explain why certain 'harmless' plant 'medicines' are so vehemently demonized and prohibited.

It also suggests a reason why regardless of the prohibition and demonization, the plants seem to be becoming more popular and integrated into many people's lives.

There also seems to be a sense amongst shaman/medicine men/facilitators that it is the plants themselves that are calling people to use them, as is my own personal experience - of course, that could just be my own delusion


My own personal favourite, Ayahuasca, which used to be the sole purview of the village shaman divining the best time to plant crops or heal a sick village member, appears to have recently evolved into a mass teacher and wake-up call for the general population of the global village. Again, it isn't happening through any particular one group (Sante Daime e.g.) but seems to be driven by the plant consciousness itself.

I suspect the recent wave of popularity for the humble hemp weed is part of the same movement.

I'm sorry to again go off-topic, but this is the first time I've read you so openly communicate about trans-dimensional aspects and beings. Please start your grey area thread as I'd love to contribute and learn from it.

I completely agree from my own experience that the energy pattern of fear is the prevalent vibration at this time, in fact I'd say it is the 'background noise' of the majority of my inner perceptions, and I confess I am still very much working through this in order to come to terms with it or simply surrender to it.

It may be wishful thinking, but my own suspicion is that 'times they are a changin' and the stranglehold that 'Rome' or TBTB currently have on the people of the world will not be able to continue for much longer. Some are calling for the people to rise up and take back our world with violence, you appear to be advocating a legal route, my own personal feeling is that all of that may well occur but it will be a reflection of an energetic shift that is now fully underway and not the precursor to it.

Time and again, the plants have shown me that worldly concepts such as paper contracts and even thought forms having any fundamental power, worth or substance is laughable, which is why I'm a bit confused as to why you put so much faith in the future resilience of such illusory human constructs.

Sorry to sound so 'new-age'

edit on 29/12/10 by RogerT because: added stuff

edit on 29/12/10 by RogerT because: added more stuff



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 05:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by General.Lee
This is really nothing new. The Vatican has always had significant world influence. In my opinion, the Vatican has more influence in world affairs than many smaller countries. The Illuminati have been closely tied with the Vatican. There is an informative document called "The Anti-Christ Identity" that closely ties Vatican to many world events and world affairs.


Thank you for that info.

Along those lines, and the ties that the Vatican has with the Illuminati...

I think everyone will find this video very informative. A slightly different take on the
thirteen bloodlines that rule the World behind the gray shadows;
the 13 obelisks in Rome and the elite 13 Roman Papal Bloodlines, ten of which are represented on the Black Pope’s advisory, Ten-man Jesuit Council.




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 06:12 AM
link   
reply to post by wcitizen
 



Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by burntheships
 


There's an interesting diagram of the power structure, pretty much as you describe it. It can be found on the link below:

www.thewatcherfiles.com...


Nice site, thanks for the link. I had not seen that one before so thanks again.

From your link....the chart has some older names in it, I think the flow is the same. Nice...


The Black Pope
Peter-Hans Kolvenbach
Superior Jesuit General
The Society of Jesus

The White Pope
Karol Wojtyla
The Papal Caesar
Pope John Paul II

The Archbishop of New York
Edward Cardinal Egan
“Archbishop of the Capital of the World”
Military Vicar Over:
The American Branch of the Knights of Malta
The Knights of Columbus
The Masonic Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree

New York City’s
Council on Foreign Relations
Shriner Freemason Peter G. Peterson, Chairman
Shriner Freemason David Rockefeller, Presider
Shriner Freemason Henry A. Kissinger, Presider
Shriner Freemason George H. W. Bush, Presider
Knight of Malta Alexander M. Haig, Presider
Knight of Malta William F. Buckley, Jr., Presider
Knight of Malta Frank C. Carlucci, Presider
Jesuit Joseph A. O’Hare, Presider
Freemason Jesse L. Jackson

National Security Agency
Condoleezza Rice, Presidential Advisor
CFR Member

Central Intelligence Agency
George J. Tenet, Director
Presidential Advisor

The Holy Roman
American Empire

Bush Family Dynasty
George H. W. Bush
Ex Director, CIA
“Christian” Freemason

CFR Member
The Kingdom of
Saudi Arabia

Bin Laden Family Dynasty
Osama bin Laden
Contract Agent, CIA
“Islamic” Freemason

The Carlyle Group
Frank C. Carlucci, CEO (left)
Knight of Malta, CFR Member
Ex-Deputy Director, CIA
&
George H. W. Bush, Investment Advisor
Shriner Freemason, CFR Member
Ex-Director, CIA
&
James A. Baker, III, Investment Advisor
CFR Member
Ex-Secretary of State Under President George H. W. Bush

The Carlyle Group
Investing In:

Bioport Corporation
(The Nation’s Only Manufacturer
of an Anthrax Vaccine Called “Cipro”)
Robert Myers, CEO




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 07:38 AM
link   
How many threads must come to pass before, we stop digging in stuff witch we are certain of is happening.
Is it really important by now, to go in all the details over and over again.?
Some stuff is new, some is old, but it all adds to your suspicious feeling you had in the first place.

It is all happening.
Evil is in control. Simple as that. Everyone who disagrees present your arguments.
Dont come with you local story's, they dont rule the world. Its the power-grid, witch tru everything flows.

The Vatican supports GMO, never knew that.
Why is that? Ohw its reduces fertility in 3 a 4 generations, pope says no condom no no condom.
More aids, yes more aids. Extermination operation Softkill.

Vatican has a seat in European Parliament, so has the whore of Babylon outside.

Obelisk here obelisk there, they look the same, but no that's no key thing to connect everything. Just a symbol.

Watch on youtube the creature of Jekyll island , that's also fiction.

Ohw and disregard all the other Alarm Bells, from cryptome John, Paster Williams, the woman yesterday at Alex Jones(Skulls and bones.)

The interview with Svali, total nonsense.

Ohw and dont you dare touch The protocols of the elders of zion.

And Lucifer standing on the porch of New York, is the good Lucifer.
He enlightens you, when you except it. But sssssst keep it a secret.

What 5 people will read this, and then a new thread is being started.
Yes it is happening, no it aint. tik tik tik tik tik thats the sound of human life running out

Maybe you should watch children of N-Korea, and then read this comment again. Inside of me, this is al connected. I have had enough.

They taken everything away from us.
Buy your Nazi food, drink your super charged green light up water, go swim in the gulf.
You cant even in some place store rain water, what the heck. Even natural sources aint natural no more.
Some of the water apparently goes to Japan....

People die because of our passiveness, people suffer, endure mental pains. We have lost our human ways, literary.
We know what is going on.

How do we get out of this?
First we gotta make our gods proud of us, unite your needs, focus. Freedom Freedom.
Then when they measure the energy and its high enough they will come down and help us against the darkness that rules the world today. (This is not really written anywhere, its imagination of my own mind
)

This one is ready to go, and excited about. I think I am to impatient



I am going to chill now great music. Put your woofers on and skipp to 29min


edit on 29-12-2010 by TribeOfManyColours because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 08:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 




Who really follows them?

Priests and Clerics invoked the names of the Christ and the Prophet for their own ends, to justify their own endeavors such as the Crusades and Jihad. Preachers use it to justify the million dollar homes they live in. Politicians use it to justify their campaigns and later their actions when they "do what’s right".

Those names have become tools.

Likewise with the American Founding Fathers, Politicians and Pundits spout them off without really knowing what the men stood for.

They are modes of persuasion.


As the great Chinese Emperor once said, religion is the Opium of the people. People take solace in these things, and find various forms of comfort that allow for a stoicism and acceptance of the imperfect by a belief that these intangible concepts and things will one day bring them perfection.



Karl Marx was a great Chinese Emperor in his spare time?
I never knew.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 08:37 AM
link   
Think Alex Jones will do a piece on this? I'd be extremely surprised if he did because he doesn't touch the Vatican with a ten foot pole. Never have and never will. Every time I listen to one of his "guests" I wonder "who is this character.....Freemason, Jesuit, CFR, Trilateral, Bilderberg, (etc.), All The Above?".
I listen to the guy but don't trust him for spit!




top topics



 
113
<< 8  9  10    12  13 >>

log in

join