USA - WW2 War crimes never addressed and held accountable!

Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by MMPI2

 

Dropping an Atomic Weapon on a Civilan City..twice

OK. Thanks.

But how was it specificallya crime? It was sanctioned by the executive branch of the united states, was in at least some measured given the green light by (at what was the time) the national security council and the joint chiefs' of staff.

Originally posted by Havick007
dropping an Atomic Weapon on a Civilan City..twice

That is not a war crime.... so exactly what war crime are you on about?

reply to post by dereks


Some folks apply their personal preferences to international terminology, and can't understand their misuse of terminology.

If someone finds something personally distasteful, they try to drop that personal distaste to something that applies to other things.

They don't have a dictionary.

Gotta have a dictionary.

reply to post by MMPI2


Because it killed and maimed many civillians. Way to many to be honest.

That doesnt make sense, any country or army that commited war crimes were originally sanctioned by the government of the time.

It's like saying of genocide is ok as long as it is sanctioned by a government.

Although i'm not comparing this to genocide ( emphasise ) do you see what i mean.

Your taking this really personally, i am not targeting you, or even your current government or military. The focus should be on the people that made those decisions.

reply to post by FarArcher


Same reply as per above -

-

reply to post by dereks


Killing civilians ..... knowingly and willingly.

The end may justify the means but at what cost.

What a legacy to leave in regard to Nuclear Weapons..... Sad really.

reply to post by Havick007


don't hold your breath.

only 2 times? good thing they surrendered when they did, eh?

reply to post by FarArcher


I know exactly what the term ''war crimes'' means -

Do you?

reply to post by fooks


I just think it needs to be addressed and the cost of those two ''bombs''

Fair enough there were military targets, and thats fine. That is apart of war, although a world without war is a much better world....

It's the civilian cost i am trying to address....over and over. No one seems to get that ot acknowledge that!

Originally posted by Havick007
It's the civilian cost i am trying to address....over and over. No one seems to get that ot acknowledge that!

You mean the civilians working to support the japanese war machine? It was not a war crime, no matter what you think.

Better dead japanese than dead US and allies.

reply to post by dereks


So you would feel the same??

If your civilians were slaughtered because they were seen as supporting the US warmachine and it's military might?

Empathy...anyone??

Do you understand what i'm saying here?

So it's ok to kill civilians because they are forced into the factories and conscripted? They have no choice...


Just like you had no say when your government most recently waged a useless war. So if there was retaliation against civilians because they are seen or propogised to support that war, that would be ok?

I think not! Also i dont agree with that, but i am using it as an example to try and help you see what i am trying to say. You cant come back at me with a statement like that, do you think their government gave them a choice?


aaarrrhh this thread is the most fustrating i have started here because people continue to make excuses and ignore my point.

Also for all of you that think i'm defending the Japanese Imperial Army, you are completly wrong. I know what they did and types of disgusting and attrocious acts they took part in.

I am standing up for the civilians and by-standers. The people that didnt have a say in the war and the people that were given no choice.

Hiroshima and Nagaski were massive cities, with Doctors, Nurses, School Teachers, School CHILDREN, lawyers, puplic servants, maids, waitress' and the list goes on and on. Do you think they had a say in the war?

Did you have a say in the Iraq war, Desert Storm, Vietnam, Somalia and also the list goes on.

Also this movie (below) is one of the most powerful and moving WW@ epics i have seen and it shows the perspective of captured Australian's, British and Americans that were held in a Japanese POW camp - it is worth the watch. I first saw in in the RAN ( Royal Aust Navy ) and it is a movie i will never forget.

I know the price we all paid, US, UK, Australia and all the other allied nations. I know!

I am not defending the Japanese Army, only the Japanese Civilians!!!!!!


To End All Wars:






Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org...

IMDb: www.imdb.com...


It is an amazing movie, and very very sad.

So when i am called someone that is sympethetic with the Japanese Army... well i wish i could swear in these forums....

reply to post by Havick007

Look, Professor, take the Geneva Conventions.

They're a contract between nations. You follow the rules, and I'll follow the rules.

You break the contract, and I'm no longer bound by the contract.

The Japanese broke every damned rule of civilized behavior and civilized conduct of war in the book.

Therefore, there was no differentiation between soldier and civilian.

We hit two viable military targets.

That just happened to be cities.

Too bad.

So sad.

reply to post by FarArcher


?? Professor?? Huh!!

reply to post by FarArcher


You may have a great knowledge of history, and google very effciently.... have you ever studied or even contemplated theology and philosphy??

You dont seem to understand the entire point of this thread, yet your the only one left arguing, the only reason the supporters of this thread wont argue is because they lose patience will small minds....

In dropping those bombs...on CIVILIAN cities the US lowered itself to similar standards as the enemy. It did whatever is needed at whatever cost to win the war...

The japanese imperial army were doing the same thing, although the idealogy and goal was much different, all they were doing is what they were ordered too and what in their minds would win the war, however perverted or distorted that idealogy was.

But the moment you commited that act, the US lowered itself to the enemies level. They knew there would be civilian casulaties and many of them...in fact the civilian deaths far out-weighed the miltary casulties....


Don't patronise me.... when your obviously biased and totally closed minded on how things actually were in that day and age. Instead of reading books and thinking the way your government wants too, perhaps think for yourself for a change!!

Originally posted by Havick007
You dont seem to understand the entire point of this thread,

The point just appears yet another bash the USA thread, devoid of facts and distorting history to fit your agenda!

reply to post by dereks


If you knew or understood me, i am far from bashing the USA... Although i will be honest i dont agree with many of it's politics and structure and the way the government treats it's citizens. But this particular thread isnt about the USA or any agenda towards it. It would be the same if the UK, UN, AUS or any other nation did the same thing.

The only point i was trying to raise is the Atomic Weapon and it effected civilians, no matter what country or idealogy. War is war, and as sad as war may be, things will happen in wartime which are attrocious!

The only reason i labelled this thread in regard to the US is because they are the ones that first and last used the atomic weapon on another nation.... no matter what the situation.


If it were ONLY military casulaties, then that is quite a different issue, but so far that is not the case...actually far from it.

It is the civilians that i make an issue of, as should we all!

Originally posted by Havick007
It is the civilians that i make an issue of, as should we all!

the "civilians" that worked in the factories producing war material.... that supported their government...

that were warned of the attacks "So, in accordance with America’s humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.”

"An American-controlled radio station on Saipan was broadcasting a similar message to the Japanese people every 15 minutes. Five days after the fliers were distributed, Hiroshima was destroyed by the “Little Boy” atomic device.

Following the first attack, the U.S. air force dropped even more leaflets: America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet. We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate. We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city. Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan. You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

Three days after Hiroshima, the “Fat Man” bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. The distribution of these leaflets, along with the radio broadcasts, does put a dent in the argument that America was unconcerned about the potential civilian deaths as a result of an atomic attack"

reply to post by dereks


Do you think those civillians were given any choice by their government? If you were to disobbey what do you think would happen, perhaps your head on stake for going against the ''Emperor''

Also yes there were leaflets dropped on over 30 Japanese cities in the days and weeks leading up to the Atomic bombings, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki but nothing that included threats of Atomic bombings....only aerial bomings..

Compare this to the England and parts of the UK, they were aware of threats from German air raids, but they never evaucated the entire city...why because they never believed one bomb could level 2/3 of that city.... Untill Hiroshima!

There is nothing really to argue.

The dropping of the bombs was the most inhumane act in the history of the world.

They set records for the most humans killed in the shortest time-span, and never before in history were so many severely injured people forced to die horrific deaths with no-one to relieve their sufferings.

The first of the horrors was the immediate injury. Thousands of people were horribly burned by the million degree flash when the bombs detonated. Then the shockwave engulfed the city, and the people who weren’t shredded by the flying debris were buried by it.
Next the fires started spreading through the rubble with the trapped people. Thousands of terrified people were burned alive as the inferno engulfed the rubble pile, and there was no-one to help anyone, because almost everyone was severely injured.
Those who survived the inferno lived to experience the next horror…no water. The severely burned people madly craved water for relief, and so many died in the water reservoirs that the water was soon contaminated and undrinkable. Those who survived the fires cried out for water, but there was none.
Then came radiation sickness and death…a malady that had never before afflicted humanity ever since the beginning of time. They thus were spared the horrors of starvation, but only because they were too sick to eat.

There was something in Hiroshima that day that had never been before since the beginning of time…a severely burned young girl wandering in search of her parents, but not able to see because her eyes had burst and had run down her cheeks like tears.

This was the ultimare crime against humanity. It was needless, senseless slaughter.

The apologists of genocide on this thread bleat that this wasn’t a crime, but it wasn’t a crime only in the sense that the gassing of the Jews wouldn’t have been a crime if the Nazis won the war.

Will Americans ever mature to a point where they can admit their government can an did a mistake? Only time will tell.

Hopefully, though, the US government did realise it was a mistake, because even though it has been involved in numerous wars since then, it has never again used its genocidal weapons of mass destruction on people.