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Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
So a person exercising their free speech rights by not reciting the pledge, somehow is disrespectful to those who have fought and died defending that freedom?
What am I your daddy? Yes - In my experience - A veteran would find that very disrespectful.
But lets be honest, I'll never do it. Surely though we can have compassion for those who are upset.edit on 26-12-2010 by Gradius Maximus because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by TKDRL
I don't think children should have to pledge allegience to anything. Especially since young kids cannot even comprehend what the words mean. Maybe older kids, should have the option to recite it, after they are taught what it means.
The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898).
Should children be forced to stand and pledge allegiance? Or should a child have the option of sitting it out, should they or their parents so decide to do so? Was this principal out of line for sending these slips home?
Children at the Edward Devotion School had reportedly not regularly recited the oath for at least five years, in spite of a state law requiring teachers to lead their classes in daily pledges.
Under Brookline school policy, the recitation can take place weekly.
Beth Kates, a former parent/teachers president and parent of an eighth-grade Devotion student, said: ‘I think it’s respectful to have a permission slip when you have such a diverse community.
‘We have over 30 countries represented at our school. I can understand the sensitivity as to whether or not people want their children to participate,’ she told the Boston Herald.
Sarah Wunsch, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union in Boston, said Mr Martinez went ‘a little astray’ with the slip.
But she congratulated him for informing children and parents that reciting the pledge was a ‘personal choice’ under the U.S. Constitution, adding: ‘Kids don’t lose their First Amendment rights when they walk in the school.'
Originally posted by Expat888
reply to post by Gradius Maximus
They lost respect long ago.. Now its whinge about this, whinge about that.. Theyve become soft wanting the state to provide for every need .. The rugged individualism and sense of responsibility that made the country what it was are long gone.. Maybe theyll understand more as the clampdown on them continues.. But I doubt it.. The generations today have forgotten that with freedom also comes responsibility.. They have no respect for anyone or anything.. Its sad to see it happen..
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, the Supreme Court ruled that requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools violated the First and Fourteenth Amendments. The case grew out of West Virginia's passage of legislation requiring the pledge and flag-saluting. Lawmakers had intended them to be part of instruction on civics, history, and the Constitution, and they defined noncompliance as insubordination that was punishable by expulsion from school. Parents of expelled students were also subject to fines...
The Supreme Court found two constitutional violations. The state law violated the Fourteenth Amendment's requirement of due process and the First Amendment's requirements of religious freedom and free speech upon the state. At heart, said the Court, were the principles of freedom of thought and government by consent. Critically, the majority observed a right of individuals to be free from official pressure to state a particular opinion, including that they honor their government. The opinion declared that "no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."
Most states, in fact, still have decades-old laws relating to the pledge. Thirty-two states mention some form of school participation in their laws, while twenty states require students to recite it.
The Edward Devotion School serves the vibrant Coolidge Corner neighborhood and is the largest of Brookline’s Pre-K to 8 schools, with a population of 716 students. It enjoys an international reputation: historically, it is the public school that President John F. Kennedy attended; academically, it welcomes students from all over the world, and socially, it reflects and respects human diversity. Devotion 3rd graders honor the memory and legacy of John F. Kennedy by engaging in a four-week study in collaboration with the JFK National Historic Site which culminates each year with students reading essays and poems about what JFK means to them.
The system-wide programs offered at Devotion are the English Language Learner program with a high concentration of Hebrew speakers, and a Pre-K through 8 Therapeutic Learning Center for students who need intensive social and emotional supports.
One of the most diverse schools in Brookline, our Pre-K-8th grade population represents 38 countries (plus the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico) including Afghanistan, Austria, Benin, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Canada, Chile, China, Croatia, Cyprus, Ecuador, El Salvador, Eritrea, Ethiopia, France, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, India, Iran, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Korea, Libyan, Mexico, Peru, Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, the United Kingdom and Uzbekistan.
Originally posted by DaveWx3
You are right. Freedom is not achieved by not saying the pledge. But a restriction in freedom is achieved by forcing people to say it.
The pledge is not beneficial in my opinion. At least that is what I see. I know you think it would help shape up these kids nowadays.
I have pride in my family. I believe there are great people in this country. Saying the pledge changes nothing about that. Im not saying we should ban the pledge. Simply give children the opportunity to make their own decisions. Im not going to tell my child to avoid saying the pledge. But I will let them know they do not have to.