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Bundle Up, It's Global Warming

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posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Human_Alien


What is your point? Reverse psychology or not, either way you play it, the whole debate is pointless.



that debate's not pointless to our grand kids who will be grappling for scraps and scavenging the wastes for their next meal.


i know i am getting all apocolyptical here, and rarely do i lose my cool in ATS-land, but the ol' "well, even if climate change exists, it is not human's fault" banter has reached it's boiling point within myself.


we sh!t all over this planet! that's that. and if we don't find a way to course correct, clean up our mess, and sort out a whole lot of loose threads (like tons of radioactive waste etc.), we will NOT be leaving this world a better place for our kids. the law of cause and effect will see to it.

so, barring some sort of deus-ex-machina, we humans better figure this one out asap.


edit on 26-12-2010 by mythos because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by ANOK
 


It's not the average person who doesn't care, it's the Industrial moguls who don't seem to care. They pollute our waters, air space and even bomb our Moon! I never voted on any of this.

In fact, most people I know are very conscientious of their daily activities. Most if not all, don't litter. We recycle. We have composes etc. Some have even purchased hybrid vehicles.

It's the ones running and ruining this world who are to blame for every single thing that's wrong on this planet. Sorry. I don't say that because I don't want to take responsibility but we are ALL slaves to 'them". And that's just the way it is (for now)


I agree.

Is the problem that when we say 'man made' you think we mean you? Are you taking this personally? Comes back to the not wanting to take responsibility doesn't it?

But yes the biggest problem is industry, I already said that, pumping crap into our atmos since the industrial revolution.

But also our use of fossil fuels. We could have done away with fossil fuels years ago, but it simply makes too much money for our 'masters'. Our problem is we are too passive and allow ourselves to be controlled by those who exploit us. We choose to drive cars. But it's a catch 22, the system is set up where most don't have a choice but to drive a car. Our whole system is set up simply to allow a small group of people to have a monopoly on the planet and exploit the rest of us. We didn't choose to drive cars originally, the desire to drive cars was created by it's producers, and then our infrastructure was set up around that without a thought of it's consequences. (most needs are really desires created by advertising etc.)

Now it's too little, too late! Your eco cars and recycling is too late! If it had been done when people first started warning us (at least the 1950's) then it might of helped, but no it made too much money and nothing was done until it was too late, as usual.
edit on 12/26/2010 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


Ok.. i'm calmer now.
got the ire and the sarcasm out of my system.

what can be done to change our current path, and on the large scale that needs to occur?

there are lots of non-too-radical solutions i have come upon in my exploration of this topic. the solutions are out there that don't involve comets or aliens or a miracle technology to save us.

"the end of suburbia" is a movie that offers the idea that more localized economies and resource distributions would benefit. i.e. food and goods shouldn't travel thousands of miles to get to where they need to go.



the other idea that stands out i just watched in the documentary "the age of stupid" (which was fairly good and addresses these very topics).


to summarize, we would need to "ration" our oil consumption, until we eventually were weened off of it.

they crunched numbers and the window to implement this plan (which is much much more involved then my rudimentary summary) is closing quick. but it can be done.


we just need to move past that speculation phase onto onto a stance of action.

but we are too distracted. hence my ire and sarcasm from earlier.


anyhow... blessed be.




or we can do nothing.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by mythos

Originally posted by sbctinfantry
What is your point? Reverse psychology or not, either way you play it, the whole debate is pointless.



that debate's not pointless to our grand kids who will be grappling for scraps and scavenging the wastes for their next meal.

i know i am getting all apocolyptical here, and rarely do i lose my cool in ATS-land, but the ol' "well, even if climate change exists, it is not human's fault" banter has reached it's boiling point within myself.

we sh!t all over this planet! that's that. and if we don't find a way to course correct, clean up our mess, and sort out a whole lot of loose threads (like tons of radioactive waste etc.), we will NOT be leaving this world a better place for our kids. the law of cause and effect will see to it.

so, barring some sort of deus-ex-machina, we humans better figure this one out asap.


edit on 26-12-2010 by mythos because: (no reason given)


You again miss the point. I am not saying that climate change is, or is not our fault as a species. I am saying that there is no solid proof of it either way. Therefore, we must tackle the issue at hand, and that issue is whether it is better to have pollutant producing energy technologies or green ones, whether green technology presented can perform better than the pollutant causing technology, and finally whether it is better to search for solutions or complain every time the weather changes.

Read this topic before you reply again please : www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now I pose this question :

What solutions are persons like Al Gore, or international climate comittees and beurocracies presenting? To say that we must do something even after taking a step back and realizing how futile and useless it may be is surely insanity? Draining our pockets to line another group or government or committee's is not the answer, the start of the answer or the path to the answer.

Where is the real solution going to be found? Inventors, innovators and creators.

Is this not precisely where the MSM has diverted their attention from? Whereas they would rather fearmonger over a cold winter than explain a new technology to pique the interest of investors?

Is the current state of affairs somewhere you see a solution emerging from, or would certain changes like the ones posed in the above posts of mine lead toward an answer faster?

Finally, there really is no solid consensus on the whole matter to begin with. Having said that, there is nothing wrong and assuredly everything right with finding greener ways to operate on this planet as a species. Therefore, no matter what your beliefs are, you can see that this type of behavior (the OP) is entirely detrimental, distracting and wholly the act of fearmongering to stir up useless debate while real solutions fall on deaf ears.

Are we at last in agreeance?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
I agree.

Is the problem that when we say 'man made' you think we mean you? Are you taking this personally? Comes back to the not wanting to take responsibility doesn't it?

But yes the biggest problem is industry, I already said that, pumping crap into our atmos since the industrial revolution.

But also our use of fossil fuels. We could have done away with fossil fuels years ago, but it simply makes too much money for our 'masters'. Our problem is we are too passive and allow ourselves to be controlled by those who exploit us. We choose to drive cars. But it's a catch 22, the system is set up where most don't have a choice but to drive a car. Our whole system is set up simply to allow a small group of people to have a monopoly on the planet and exploit the rest of us. We didn't choose to drive cars originally, the desire to drive cars was created by it's producers, and then our infrastructure was set up around that without a thought of it's consequences. (most needs are really desires created by advertising etc.)

Now it's too little, too late! Your eco cars and recycling is too late! If it had been done when people first started warning us (at least the 1950's) then it might of helped, but no it made too much money and nothing was done until it was too late, as usual.
edit on 12/26/2010 by ANOK because: typo


The very definition of fearmongering can be found above. To state that it is too late is to suggest that the owner of this reply knows what no other scientist on the planet does. To suggest that our cars are the problem, and that we are slaves to a system that is destroying the planet is utter nonsense.

People chose to drive cars because they were an upgrade from what was offered previously. In order for Green Energy to work, we must offer a solution that is an upgrade or cheaper than the current norm. That is the only way anything will change. If you truely cared about this change you would be finding solutions instead of blaming the world of being, the world.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


You mentioned taking responsibility and I just wanted to broach upon that with: it's the Industrial corporations that are polluting our airs and waters (not me) but I don't believe for a moment they are remotely effecting our weather. Two different paradigms.



I believe nothing that they say anymore. I've been like this for nearly 10 years now. It's a terrible way to live but this too, I blame 'em!

And....watch out for Chemtrails too. They're up to no-good as well!!!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by sbctinfantry
Have you ever thought of any way that we can reverse world climate when we can not, as a world, agree on a single other topic? Say that we do manage to come to the conclusion that Man Made Global Warming is real, what can possibly be done about it? Nothing.

What is your point? Reverse psychology or not, either way you play it, the whole debate is pointless.


Huh? What is your point?

I didn't start this discussion. I didn't say there was anything we can do about it either. Why am I all of a sudden responsible for knowing what to do about it?

I thought I made it pretty clear in my last post, I think it's too late. How the hell do you reverse 200 years of pumpin' crap into our atmos? Even if it stops completely today, what we have already is not going away for a long long time.

It sounds like you don't want to believe man has a part in it because then you would have to do something about it?
edit on 12/26/2010 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


We chose to drive cars? Really now?

For those of us who can't afford to live where 'the action/jobs are' (that we are FORCED to have in order to survive) we need cars to drive those 25-50 miles to work. And no. Mass transit isn't always a viable options especially out in the country.

Stop blaming us. The only thing we're guilty of is being a continuous slave to the Elite.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
You mentioned taking responsibility and I just wanted to broach upon that with: it's the Industrial corporations that are polluting our airs and waters (not me) but I don't believe for a moment they are remotely effecting our weather. Two different paradigms.


We all are a part of the problem. You are proving my point, you don't want to take responsibility.
We all allow this system to control our world, you allow it and support it.

(And you probably drive a vehicle of some kind.)


I believe nothing that they say anymore. I've been like this for nearly 10 years now. It's a terrible way to live but this too, I blame 'em!


Believe who?

If you are a younger person you probably don't realise that the first people to start warning us of the problems of pollution effecting the weather was not Al Gore. Or anyone in authority. TPTB have just started picking up on it because they have NO choice anymore and can't ignore it. So they do the only thing they know how to do, they control it. They control the information and create conflicting points in order to confuse, and appear to be concerned while really doing nothing.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by sbctinfantry
Have you ever thought of any way that we can reverse world climate when we can not, as a world, agree on a single other topic? Say that we do manage to come to the conclusion that Man Made Global Warming is real, what can possibly be done about it? Nothing.

What is your point? Reverse psychology or not, either way you play it, the whole debate is pointless.


Huh? What is your point?

I didn't start this discussion. I didn't say there was anything we can do about it either. Why am I all of a sudden responsible for knowing what to do about it?

I thought I made it pretty clear in my last post, I think it's too late. How the hell do you reverse 200 years of pumpin' crap into our atmos? Even if it stops completely today, what we have already is not going away for a long long time.

It sounds like you don't want to believe man has a part in it because then you would have to do something about it?
edit on 12/26/2010 by ANOK because: typo


I have linked you to the wave technology and the post that I personally worked on, a 100% green project. It has just come out of the water off the coast of Florida, and now the world tour will ensue to sell to very interested buyers. These buyers don't care that it is green, but rather it is out of sight, causes zero pollution, and creates near free energy.

That will be the wave of the future.

Your post is merely stating that we are all doomed and there is nothing we can do about it, so I have offered a solution now three times and you have yet to acknowledge it.

My words are that of encouragement, and even if what you say is true that I, myself, feel guilty - I also feel I have contributed more than Al Gore ever could have to a solution.

Good day sir.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 


I wish people would read the whole post before replying. This is at least twice now in this thread.




posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


Well sorry but that's just my opinion isn't it, no need to get ya stacks in a twist.

Great you're trying to do something about it, I applaud you! If only we had done that from the beginning is my point. I was doing things about it 30 years ago before it was fashionable, sir.

I still think it's too late, the damage is done, I hope I'm wrong.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


Well sorry but that's just my opinion isn't it, no need to get ya stacks in a twist.

Great you're trying to do something about it, I applaud you! If only we had done that from the beginning is my point. I was doing things about it 30 years ago before it was fashionable, sir.

I still think it's too late, the damage is done, I hope I'm wrong.


Reporting this for off-topic material, as it is more or less a one-liner. It adds nothing to the conversation and serves only to distract from it. It also makes unproveable claims that serve only to arbitrarily back up the credibility of the poster, whom otherwise would have none.

Moving on.

How many years of wrong predictions would it take each ATS community member to question man made global warming? How much proof would be needed, tangible proof, in real numbers?

Essentially, what is your price?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Commonsense should tell most people that this is a scam - you dont need a science degree to know BS when you smell it!

What the warmists have done is to put together a political campaign, a looters coalition, of people who are very very interested in the benefits of the proposed solution, and are prepared to go along with the idea that there is a problem in the first place.





Anthropogenic (man-made) CO2 contributions cause only about 0.117% of Earth's greenhouse effect, (factoring in water vapor). This is insignificant!

The Kyoto Protocol calls for mandatory carbon dioxide reductions of 30% from developed countries like the U.S. Reducing man-made CO2 emissions this much would have an undetectable effect on climate while having a devastating effect on the U.S. economy. Can you drive your car 30% less, reduce your winter heating 30%? Pay 20-50% more for everything from automobiles to zippers? And that is just a down payment, with more sacrifices to come later.

Such drastic measures, even if imposed equally on all countries around the world, would reduce total human greenhouse contributions from CO2 by about 0.035%.

www.geocraft.com...


This is much less than the natural variability of Earth's climate system!


..........................Also consider this - maybe GW would be a good thing!


It has been truthfully said, "that it is an ill wind that blows nobody any good." The global warming crowd has not been exactly honest about the impact of global warming. Indeed there could be more winners than losers. Here is an independent viewpoint.

Most people are not aware of the fact that there have been two great warming periods in the last two thousand years. In both of these warming periods the weather was warmer than it is today.

During the Roman warm period parts of North Africa that are today desert wastes were the highly productive granaries of the Roman Empire.

Vast areas of the central Australian desert were grassy savannahs. Much vaster areas of what is today the nearly worthless permafrost tundras of Northern Canada and Siberia were productive grasslands.

The primary cause of this phenomena in the case of the desert areas was that the direction of the prevailing winds changed somewhat and thus blew over more sea water and due to the greater warmth carried more water vapor than they do today.

When the weather cooled vast areas of North Africa and Central Australia turned to desert. In Canada and Siberia vast areas of productive grasslands turned into areas of nearly worthless permafrost.

In the Medieval Warm Period which lasted from 800-1300 the weather was so warm that England was exporting wine to France. The vineyards grew as far north as York in England.

Farmers grew wheat as far north as Trondheim, Norway. Oats and barley were grown in Iceland. Today none of this is possible. It is too cold.

When Leif Ericcson's Viking ships discovered the new world they landed in what is now Newfoundland. THey called it Vinland. For centuries historians refused to believe it because it is too cold for vineyards to grow anywhere near Newfoundland but it was possible during the Viking period.

If the Romans and Vikings were alive to hear our hysterical prattle about the threat of global warming, they would kick us until we stopped moving. The great threat to humanity is not Global Warming but Global Cooling. The Little Ice Age of 1300-1850 was a calamitous disaster during its first two centuries. There were mass famines until the population had declined enough to enable it to be adequately supported by the shorter growing seasons. The Greenland settlements had to abandoned.

If you stop to think about it the loss of a couple hundred feet of shoreline may be a small price to pay in return for a green and productive Central Australia and North Africa not to mention the vast new productive lands in Northern Canada and Siberia that would now be open for human development. Not to mention Greenland. Take a look at the map.

Like the saying says, "it is an ill wind that blows nobody any good."

ezinearticles.com...



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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So global warming causes things to be ridiculously cold. Global warming causes things to be ridiculously warm. Global warming causes more rain in some areas and more drought in others. Global warming, global warming, global warming. Why does it so many times feel like these global warming scientists are trying to make the evidence fit their theory?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by gnosticquasar
 


Actually yes it does ALL those things.

Our oceans control the weather, when they change temperature the weather changes in many different ways.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:14 PM
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One of the main consequences of GW is rising sea levels.

However there is a slight problem, sea levels are not rising.

Ergo there can be no GW.

please read for yourselves



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by gnosticquasar
 


To answer your very good question: Because the hallmark of a failed theory is "scientists" who support a failed theory try to fit the data to the theory, rather than use the data in an objective way to confirm or disconfirm a theory.

When the data that's out there doesn't support the MMGW theory, the bought and paid-for "scientists" alter, obfuscate and outright lie in order to support their pet money-maker.

Remember that idiot Michael Mann's statement to "hide the decline" and lie to his colleagues and the public about data incongruous with their "man-made global warming" con>

These people are fraudsters of the lowest order. They are shameless charlatans who are in it not for the science or the good of mankind, but to make a buck.









posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
Stop blaming us. The only thing we're guilty of is being a continuous slave to the Elite.


Stop refusing to except responsibility. It's always someone elses fault isn't it?

Who is 'us' btw, I am one of 'us' you know.

www.maine.gov...

You are all ignoring good science, and accusing people of lying, just to evade feeling responsible.

I agree you can't stop driving your car, I never asked you to and never will. Sorry if the reality makes you fell guilty. This is why I feel it's too late, we are not about to rebuild our infrastructure, or economic system, to allow for less use of personal vehicles and industrial emissions. We could have had wave technology, and other clean energy, years ago but our capitalist system (that you all support) preferred to go with dirty expensive fossil fuels because they made someone more money (the same people now running your government haha, anyone see a conflict here?).


The geopolitics of oil

Capitalism's ruthless struggle for oil and gas

EVER SINCE oil became a crucial resource at the beginning of the 20th century, fuel for motor vehicles and modern warships, it has been at the heart of geopolitical struggle. Today gas, used to fuel electric power generation, industrial processes and domestic heating, is just as important.

www.cleanmpg.com...
edit on 12/26/2010 by ANOK because: typo



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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I thought this article could inform our discussion here:


Boston (MA) - Scientists at MIT have recorded a nearly simultaneous world-wide increase in methane levels. This is the first increase in ten years, and what baffles science is that this data contradicts theories stating man is the primary source of increase for this greenhouse gas. It takes about one full year for gases generated in the highly industrial northern hemisphere to cycle through and reach the southern hemisphere. However, since all worldwide levels rose simultaneously throughout the same year, it is now believed this may be part of a natural cycle in mother nature - and not the direct result of man's contributions.


wattsupwiththa... t.com/2008/10/30/mit-scientists-baffled-by-global-warming-theory-contradicts-scientific-data/#comments

The man-made global warming crowd are liars and con-men. Lying about this stuff is their bread and butter.



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